How much to build 440?

Posted By: GTX MATT

Re: How much to build 440? - 12/09/14 08:55 PM

Do you want a rebuild or do you just want to mod what you have to 400 horsepower?

Posted By: DaytonaTurbo

Re: How much to build 440? - 12/09/14 09:20 PM

The 78 440 will have the smogger low CR pistons. Your actual CR will be around 7.8:1. Now if the short block is in good shape, you can get 400hp out of it, but it will be less streetable than a comparable 440 with better compression.

Posted By: 74RALLYE

Re: How much to build 440? - 12/09/14 09:20 PM

$3500 with a little luck and you doing the assembly.

Posted By: HemiRick

Re: How much to build 440? - 12/09/14 09:54 PM

If your motor is sound i.e. not burning oil and quiet, a simple cam change and a set of headers should easily get 400 HP. Must find a good cam for a low comp motor though....

Posted By: Fern

Re: How much to build 440? - 12/09/14 10:21 PM

The motor was a replacement motor. It runs fine and only has about 3000 miles on it.
Is it worth rebuilding to get it up to 400 hp or just better to buy a crate motor?
I would like to get more compression, and better heads if thats a better route than mickey mouse the motor.

The comments are all over from simple $500 to $5000.

Posted By: DaytonaTurbo

Re: How much to build 440? - 12/09/14 10:50 PM

I wouldn't be able to justify rebuilding if it's only got 3000 miles on it. If all else is running well there are better places to spend your money. I wouldn't even take a cylinder head off.

For a low CR build with stock heads I would find a used edelbrock CH4B intake. Good dual plane intake, and with stock heads IMO a better choice than an edelbrock performer RPM. Buy yourself a set of cheap summit headers, but spring for some decent gaskets. For a cam, I would take a look at hughes "whiplash" cam for 440. They ground that cam to make power while maximizing cylinder pressure in low compression 440's just like yours. Then do yourself a favor and do your torq converter. Don't leave a stock converter in there, buy something that will stall to 2800-3000rpm. This will help cover the bottom end torq that the smogger piston 440's are soft on. I haven't heard good things about the street avenger carbs but no real experience. Also you will NEED to recurve your distributor. If you're not going to recurve your distributor, you might as well not even unbolt the intake from that 440. Dialing in your spark advance will make or break a low CR 440. Also what's your rear end gear ratio?

Posted By: WyleECoyote

Re: How much to build 440? - 12/09/14 10:56 PM

Why the focus on "400" horsepower?

Its just a number.

There are soooo many things to consider; that's why you're hearing $500 to $5,000.

It all depends on what YOU want to do with the vehicle; not just that you want "400" horsepower.

The whole thing has to be a plan; you have to match cam, intake, carb, stall converter, gear ratio, and tire size all to what you want out of the vehicles purpose.

Is fuel mileage important?

Is high rpm important?

Is 75 mph for freeway driving important?

So my point is there are many things you can do to a vehicle to make it perform and FEEL more powerful and like it has more horsepower, without really adding horsepower IN the engine. You shouldn't focus on wanting "400" horsepower as much as doing the things to make it perform "better" - for whatever it is you're looking for.

Change your gear ratio.

Add an intake manifold and carb.

Add headers.

Add a bigger cam.

Change heads.

If you want to change compression more than what you can do with heads and thin head gaskets, thats when your money will be falling out of your pocket.

Like the poster above said "$3500 and you assemble." And why I said, "$5,000." Getting into an engine for a complete rebuild isn't cheap.

I'm just offering some advice and points for you to think about. I'm not critiquing or judging you or anyone else's comments, just trying to help.

Posted By: Dean_Kuzluzski

Re: How much to build 440? - 12/09/14 11:54 PM

I'll dare to say it.........

get some closed chamber 516 heads, shave them .060, add the 1.74 exh. valve, invest in a cheap harbor freight die grinder, bowl port the heads with a few select stones, add a MP 284/484 cam, a used aluminum dual-plane (like a CH4B, Weiand or Perf. RPM), your carb, headers and an easy 400+ ponies with moooocho torque at 2400 rpm and up.

Far & away less than a crate motor or $5000.

Posted By: Fern

Re: How much to build 440? - 12/10/14 12:03 AM

Ok, the car is a 70 challenger with fast ratio steering, so not sure if headers will fit or not.
The car is a standard.
Rear gears are 3.55

The reason I said 400hp is just to clarify that I'm not looking for a stroker motor, just a point of reference. Mild build.
Since the motor is in great shape, I was hopeing to get better response.

Are the 906 heads a good option for this motor or would bolting on different heads make a big difference?

Posted By: WyleECoyote

Re: How much to build 440? - 12/10/14 12:31 AM

Read this:

http://www.hotrod.com/how-to/engine/mopp-0805-mopar-engine-build-guide/

Posted By: AndyF

Re: How much to build 440? - 12/10/14 12:39 AM

If you have access to a compression gauge you can save yourself (and us) a lot of time. Write down what compression you have in all 8 cylinders and post that. If you can check the engine vacuum then even better.

If you have low cylinder compression then there are not any "cheap" fixes to get you to 400 hp. If you have decent compression then some bolt on parts probably get you there.

Posted By: 74RALLYE

Re: How much to build 440? - 12/10/14 01:30 AM

3,000 miles, it's just broke in. A cam, intake and hedders would wake it up.

Posted By: forphorty

Re: How much to build 440? - 12/10/14 02:18 AM

http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=249866

Posted By: LaRoy Engines

Re: How much to build 440? - 12/10/14 02:20 AM

Maybe this will give you a few ideas. We invited the neighbors over for a 'dyno day' at the shop and made a few changes to a 7.5:1 compression 440 over about eight hours and made a dyno pull after each change. It wasn't designed to be a perfect combination, we started with stock 906 heads and used parts we had laying around.

Low compression 440 dyno test.

Posted By: GTX MATT

Re: How much to build 440? - 12/10/14 05:37 AM

If you've got money to spend swing in good pistons. Ideally you should just need a hone and a rotating assembly re-balance, as well as possibly having your connecting rods bushed for floating pins depending on your piston choice.

If you do this I would figure:

500 for pistons
100 for hone to fit pistons
300 for rebalance
New bearings 160
Machine rods 200?

Cam and lifters 200
Custom pushrods 100
Valve springs, locks, retainers 250
Gaskets 100?
Headers 150-500

So you're looking at about 800 to do it without upping the compression, another 1300 to up the compression. Then any labor.

Posted By: Pale_Roader

Re: How much to build 440? - 12/10/14 02:56 PM

Wow... some pretty outdated info in here.

400HP is too easy for a 440. By my 1/4 mile times i was pushing over that in my last 440. Unrebuilt, 140K mile 76 New Yorker engine with the usual junk: 7.6:1 CR, 452 heads. I will admit to this one having a very mild non-stock cam though... something like a 6-pack cam. You could only really 'hear' it when it was cold.

I pulled that from the car, installed it in my wreck with some Hooker Comp headers (also a 3" mandrel bent X-pipe Spintech exhaust), a mildly plenum-ported Holley Street Dominator intake, Holley 750 vac secondary, 1" 4-hole spacer, slightly modded stub stack (no air cleaner), , recurved stock electric ign dist, small clutch fan, really... i think that was about it. The car had no PS, no AC and no other power options save PDB. That engine was a piece ov junk (burned a bit ov oil, wasn't terribly smooth) and it made well in excess ov 400HP, by gross standards anyways (think my speed calc was in net?)

Easy peasy, no build necessary.

- DONT buy a junk intake. Stick with the classics (RPM, Holley SD). Block the heat crossover when you swap it. There is a LOT ov power in the right intake.

- Dont try and make a thermoquad work... 99% ov guys cant. If you're that 1%, go nuts, but most guys that think they're in that 1% are not. Holleys rule the strip for a reason... cheap, easy, and they work.

- Long tube headers are not optional.

- Build a real exhaust (read: what was fun or cool in the 70's and 80's is costing you power now)

- Put a good cam in there, preferably from a company that knows the difference between Mopar and Chevy (most dont). Hughes makes a cam that is both modern (FAR more efficient at making power) and actually builds cylinder pressure to help out these asthmatic low comp engines, its called Whiplash.

- head porting is actually pretty simple and easy to do, even made easier by kits you can buy. No need to go nuts, just a few hours work could net you a LOT ov power. Shave .030" off while they're out for a bit more squeeze (just dont lose sleep over making up that horrid mid-7's CR... you cant).

- windage trays are what? $50-60? (milodon, not that MP junk). Crank scrapers are free if you're crafty.

- stick with tried and true combos... many out there.

If you're going to build it. BUY PISTONS. And i dont mean that 60/70's junk (TRW/Speed Pro, stock crap). Buy modern pistons with ZERO DECK, and scrounge up a pair ov closed chamber heads... even 516's (put bigger exhaust valves in) would be preferable to the best open chamber head. This is the most important thing you can do by far. Zero deck/closed chamber heads allow real quench. 70's technology that should not be even optional... yet still people (stuck in the 50/60's) dont seem to bother.

Better yet, buy aluminum.

The only other non-negotiable thing is have it balanced. Mopars were awful from the factory. Its cheap to fix.

Posted By: Mr.Yuck

Re: How much to build 440? - 12/10/14 04:19 PM

with only 3k I probably won't even pull the heads, if you do I'd have them milled and use the Mopar steel gaskets to get a little more compression. Right now you are at around 8:1 maybe lower if the fat Fel-Pros were used. Like I and others have mentioned, Cam, Headers, Intake (you have the carb), Good ingnition, Good tune, and you'll have all the tire burning, trunk pulling power you'll need for a cruiser. AND if you back the timing down you can use 87. I had a 73 440 from a Fury cop car. It had over 100k on it. We put new bearings in it, I added a 509 cam (wrong cam I know)a Bee Ess intake, I used the factory thermoquad and headers, that car would boil the tires until I lifted. Doesn't take much.

Posted By: jose jones

Re: How much to build 440? - 12/10/14 04:38 PM

Quote:

Wow... some pretty outdated info in here.

400HP is too easy for a 440. By my 1/4 mile times i was pushing over that in my last 440. Unrebuilt, 140K mile 76 New Yorker engine with the usual junk: 7.6:1 CR, 452 heads. I will admit to this one having a very mild non-stock cam though... something like a 6-pack cam. You could only really 'hear' it when it was cold.

I pulled that from the car, installed it in my wreck with some Hooker Comp headers (also a 3" mandrel bent X-pipe Spintech exhaust), a mildly plenum-ported Holley Street Dominator intake, Holley 750 vac secondary, 1" 4-hole spacer, slightly modded stub stack (no air cleaner), , recurved stock electric ign dist, small clutch fan, really... i think that was about it. The car had no PS, no AC and no other power options save PDB. That engine was a piece ov junk (burned a bit ov oil, wasn't terribly smooth) and it made well in excess ov 400HP, by gross standards anyways (think my speed calc was in net?)

Easy peasy, no build necessary.

- DONT buy a junk intake. Stick with the classics (RPM, Holley SD). Block the heat crossover when you swap it. There is a LOT ov power in the right intake.

- Dont try and make a thermoquad work... 99% ov guys cant. If you're that 1%, go nuts, but most guys that think they're in that 1% are not. Holleys rule the strip for a reason... cheap, easy, and they work.

- Long tube headers are not optional.

- Build a real exhaust (read: what was fun or cool in the 70's and 80's is costing you power now)

- Put a good cam in there, preferably from a company that knows the difference between Mopar and Chevy (most dont). Hughes makes a cam that is both modern (FAR more efficient at making power) and actually builds cylinder pressure to help out these asthmatic low comp engines, its called Whiplash.

- head porting is actually pretty simple and easy to do, even made easier by kits you can buy. No need to go nuts, just a few hours work could net you a LOT ov power. Shave .030" off while they're out for a bit more squeeze (just dont lose sleep over making up that horrid mid-7's CR... you cant).

- windage trays are what? $50-60? (milodon, not that MP junk). Crank scrapers are free if you're crafty.

- stick with tried and true combos... many out there.

If you're going to build it. BUY PISTONS. And i dont mean that 60/70's junk (TRW/Speed Pro, stock crap). Buy modern pistons with ZERO DECK, and scrounge up a pair ov closed chamber heads... even 516's (put bigger exhaust valves in) would be preferable to the best open chamber head. This is the most important thing you can do by far. Zero deck/closed chamber heads allow real quench. 70's technology that should not be even optional... yet still people (stuck in the 50/60's) dont seem to bother.

Better yet, buy aluminum.

The only other non-negotiable thing is have it balanced. Mopars were awful from the factory. Its cheap to fix.

Posted By: SomeCarGuy

Re: How much to build 440? - 12/10/14 11:05 PM

Do we know if the low comp pistons are even still in there? Sounds like a rebuild was done. ???

Posted By: mopar346

Re: How much to build 440? - 12/11/14 12:03 AM

Quote:

Do we know if the low comp pistons are even still in there? Sounds like a rebuild was done. ???

Good point.

Posted By: Fern

Re: How much to build 440? - 12/11/14 12:41 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Do we know if the low comp pistons are even still in there? Sounds like a rebuild was done. ???

Good point.

I never even thought of that.
All I know about the motor is what the previous said "replacement 78 motor with 3k miles on it"

Posted By: Fern

Re: How much to build 440? - 12/11/14 12:44 AM

Quote:

Wow... some pretty outdated info in here.

400HP is too easy for a 440. By my 1/4 mile times i was pushing over that in my last 440. Unrebuilt, 140K mile 76 New Yorker engine with the usual junk: 7.6:1 CR, 452 heads. I will admit to this one having a very mild non-stock cam though... something like a 6-pack cam. You could only really 'hear' it when it was cold.

I pulled that from the car, installed it in my wreck with some Hooker Comp headers (also a 3" mandrel bent X-pipe Spintech exhaust), a mildly plenum-ported Holley Street Dominator intake, Holley 750 vac secondary, 1" 4-hole spacer, slightly modded stub stack (no air cleaner), , recurved stock electric ign dist, small clutch fan, really... i think that was about it. The car had no PS, no AC and no other power options save PDB. That engine was a piece ov junk (burned a bit ov oil, wasn't terribly smooth) and it made well in excess ov 400HP, by gross standards anyways (think my speed calc was in net?)

Easy peasy, no build necessary.

- DONT buy a junk intake. Stick with the classics (RPM, Holley SD). Block the heat crossover when you swap it. There is a LOT ov power in the right intake.

- Dont try and make a thermoquad work... 99% ov guys cant. If you're that 1%, go nuts, but most guys that think they're in that 1% are not. Holleys rule the strip for a reason... cheap, easy, and they work.

- Long tube headers are not optional.

- Build a real exhaust (read: what was fun or cool in the 70's and 80's is costing you power now)

- Put a good cam in there, preferably from a company that knows the difference between Mopar and Chevy (most dont). Hughes makes a cam that is both modern (FAR more efficient at making power) and actually builds cylinder pressure to help out these asthmatic low comp engines, its called Whiplash.

- head porting is actually pretty simple and easy to do, even made easier by kits you can buy. No need to go nuts, just a few hours work could net you a LOT ov power. Shave .030" off while they're out for a bit more squeeze (just dont lose sleep over making up that horrid mid-7's CR... you cant).

- windage trays are what? $50-60? (milodon, not that MP junk). Crank scrapers are free if you're crafty.

- stick with tried and true combos... many out there.

If you're going to build it. BUY PISTONS. And i dont mean that 60/70's junk (TRW/Speed Pro, stock crap). Buy modern pistons with ZERO DECK, and scrounge up a pair ov closed chamber heads... even 516's (put bigger exhaust valves in) would be preferable to the best open chamber head. This is the most important thing you can do by far. Zero deck/closed chamber heads allow real quench. 70's technology that should not be even optional... yet still people (stuck in the 50/60's) dont seem to bother.

Better yet, buy aluminum.

The only other non-negotiable thing is have it balanced. Mopars were awful from the factory. Its cheap to fix.

Great info

Thank you!!

I guess I should test for compression. I will start there.

Any one know which headers will fit in a 70 Challenger BB with firm feel fast ratio steereing?

Posted By: Pale_Roader

Re: How much to build 440? - 12/11/14 03:22 PM

Quote:

Do we know if the low comp pistons are even still in there? Sounds like a rebuild was done. ???

Have you EVER come across a rebuild that didn't have junk pistons in it? Ever? Once? I swear there is a conspiracy amongst part-counter salesmen to only sell stuff designed in the 60's. To most hot rod guys, TRW and Speed-Pro are cutting edge.

I'm betting the car its got either stock junk, jobber junk, or expensive 'cutting edge' TRW/SP junk in it. 9 times out ov 10, if the builder wanted high compression you'll find domed junk in there...

Posted By: DaytonaTurbo

Re: How much to build 440? - 12/11/14 04:54 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Do we know if the low comp pistons are even still in there? Sounds like a rebuild was done. ???

Have you EVER come across a rebuild that didn't have junk pistons in it? Ever? Once? I swear there is a conspiracy amongst part-counter salesmen to only sell stuff designed in the 60's. To most hot rod guys, TRW and Speed-Pro are cutting edge.

I'm betting the car its got either stock junk, jobber junk, or expensive 'cutting edge' TRW/SP junk in it. 9 times out ov 10, if the builder wanted high compression you'll find domed junk in there...

Hey I will take a set of "junk" Speed Pro/TRW 6-pack 2355 pistons over those crap low compression 1.912 compression height smogger era 70's pistons any day of the week. Those old 2355's may be as heavy as the stock pistons but at least they have a 2.060 compression height so you can at least get some decent squeeze out of them!

But yes I agree with you, there must be some conspiracy to sell those smogger era 440 pistons because way too many 440's are still getting them at rebuild time. It would do many a mopar guy a favor if those pistons weren't on the market anymore!

With all the lightweight modern forged and hyper pistons, there's no good reason for those old cast junkers.

Posted By: GTX MATT

Re: How much to build 440? - 12/11/14 04:58 PM

I agree with both of you. At least the old six pack TRWs will yield 9.5ish:1 on pretty much any engine. But the other junk should go. Same with the 383s, why they make all those junk jobber 8:1 jobs is beyond me, really just screws everyone over. Murpy's law applies, assume you've got 8:1 junk in most cases.

Posted By: LaRoy Engines

Re: How much to build 440? - 12/11/14 05:32 PM

Okay, dyno tests with the old junker TRW 6-Pack pistons in a .030 over 440. My son wanted to do some cylinder head tests so we pulled the engine out of my Dad's old truck and put it on the dyno. Engine built in 1997 but dyno'd this time in Dec, 2013.

440 with TRW 6-Pack pistons.

Posted By: 67Satty

Re: How much to build 440? - 12/11/14 06:37 PM

All these times the 2355s get referred to as "junk" or "too heavy" but has there ever been any actual data to back up how heavy is "too heavy" or if it really even matters? Or is it one of those things people have read online that they like to repeat?

Anyone ever compare two builds that are identical except for the pistons being the 2355s vs. something lighter to see what effect there was on either HP or ET? I'm guessing probably not.

Seems kind of funny to me to worry about piston weight on something built to be a low-revving torque monster (like most street/strip 440s are), something that will probably get shifted at 5,500 or 6,000 RPM at the most.

LaRoy Engines built a motor with the junk 2355s that made over 500 HP with ported iron and over 600 HP with Indy EZs. How much were those junk 2355s holding that engine back and does it even matter?

Posted By: GTX MATT

Re: How much to build 440? - 12/11/14 08:04 PM

Measurable differences would likely be low, its more of a strength issue. I wouldn't hesitate to put an engine together with them. They're old but nothing wrong with them, similar to the Purpleshaft cams and 906 heads. Lots of cars have gone really fast with 2355s, six pack rods, 906 heads, and a 509 cam.

The main thing with the TRWs are they're just expensive as anything else, not worth ponying up the same dough when there are better options for the same price.

Posted By: DaytonaTurbo

Re: How much to build 440? - 12/11/14 08:23 PM

I think part of the reason (or at least an upside) the 2355s weigh what they do is they weigh so close to stock pistons you could swap them out and your balance would be no worse than the shoddy balance jobs these engines came with from the factory.

Some guys claim the ligher pistons would produce a better et. I have a hard time seeing a 440 needing to rev up quicker down the strip than a heavy piston 440 would rev up in neutral.

Posted By: SomeCarGuy

Re: How much to build 440? - 12/11/14 10:45 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Do we know if the low comp pistons are even still in there? Sounds like a rebuild was done. ???

Have you EVER come across a rebuild that didn't have junk pistons in it? Ever? Once? I swear there is a conspiracy amongst part-counter salesmen to only sell stuff designed in the 60's. To most hot rod guys, TRW and Speed-Pro are cutting edge.

I'm betting the car its got either stock junk, jobber junk, or expensive 'cutting edge' TRW/SP junk in it. 9 times out ov 10, if the builder wanted high compression you'll find domed junk in there...

Uh yeah, all the time. Not all rebuilds are "reman" jobs. Who knows what he has?

Posted By: BSB67

Re: How much to build 440? - 12/12/14 03:09 AM

1) Do you guys actually believe that there is a conspiracy causing the surplus junk Mopar rebuilds? Let me tell you why there are so many junk Mopar rebuilds out there: Many Mopar guys are cheap, and not too tech savvy.

2)The TRW/Speed Pro replacement 2355 replacement piston has a nice compression height, and use to be both a quality piece. Today, it only has the nice compression height.

3) My experience is that all mopar engines that are rebuilt are rebuilt with junk/marginally adequate parts unless the seller can speak intelligently about the parts and articulate part numbers and compression heights.

4)I cannot tell you how many guys cannot help themselves and buy "good deal" motors no matter how hard you plead against it. For a guy looking for a performance motor, they are money losers. They either plow a bunch of money in them to make them a nice low compression motor, or they start from scratch.

Posted By: b54406barrel

Re: How much to build 440? - 12/12/14 03:33 AM

Plenty of ways to skin a cat. If there weren't, we'd all be driving model T's, at best!

Oops, forgot the original question. I think I'll be able to get 13's with my $300, spare parts motor.

Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: How much to build 440? - 12/12/14 05:04 AM

400 HP is easy, 500 HP takes a little more knowledge and part selection. You really need to know what pistons and what deck hieght your motor has now before starting down the road to building more power

I've built a bunch of 440 pump gas motors over the years, all the BB Mopars need and love more air and fuel in and out of the motor

The more air with the proper ratio of fuel the more power the motor will make

No magic here

Real quick formula for 450 + hp, 9.5 to 1 compression on any pump swill, 850 CFM carb, 1 7/8 or 2.00 inch headers, Performer RPM intake, camshaft that has at least 240 degrees at .050 intake lift with as much lobe lift you can find( 1.6 rocker arm ratio is good

), ground on 106 to 110 lobe seperation angle, installed 4 to 6 degrees advance on the intake lobe center, heads that will flow at least 260 CFM at .500 and above valve opening. One of the last stock stroke pump gas motors I built with a set of midly ported 906 heads with 2.14 intake valves and1.81 ex. valves, Eddy Performer intake with a Holley 950 HP carb. made 535 HP at 6100 RPM and more torque than HP with a pretty big weird grind solid lifter cam,all on 91 octane CA pump swill

The customer loves it, 1965 Satelite with all the extras, no light weight either

Think twice, or more

, act once

Posted By: GTX MATT

Re: How much to build 440? - 12/12/14 05:49 AM

Quote:

3) My experience is that all mopar engines that are rebuilt are rebuilt with junk/marginally adequate parts unless the seller can speak intelligently about the parts and articulate part numbers and compression heights.

Posted By: Pale_Roader

Re: How much to build 440? - 12/12/14 04:02 PM

Quote:

Measurable differences would likely be low, its more of a strength issue. I wouldn't hesitate to put an engine together with them. They're old but nothing wrong with them, similar to the Purpleshaft cams and 906 heads. Lots of cars have gone really fast with 2355s, six pack rods, 906 heads, and a 509 cam.

The main thing with the TRWs are they're just expensive as anything else, not worth ponying up the same dough when there are WAAAY better options for the same price.

Fixed it.

Its not the weight. Its the compression height. Quench was old news ages ago and people are STILL building engines without? I'd wager that if ALL these JUNK pistons just suddenly disappeared in the 70's and you could ONLY get proper zero deck pistons (and lets just make all 906 and 452 heads closed chamber while we're dreaming) i bet a lot more old cars would still be driving around. People still equate old big blocks with single digit MPG and only occasional fun... it doesn't have to be this way.

I dont know... maybe its just more hillbilly where i live... but it seems that every Mopar i run across is the same 440 w pop-ups, 906 heads, fat Holley, MP cam, open-headered mess... usually with steep gears and a hairy convertor. They get driven so infrequently they never get sorted out, they're embarrassingly slow and ov course, because they go through gas like a nitro hemi they never get driven. ALL the Mopars are gone. All i see now are Camaros and Mustangs, some Chevelles, some Novas... why? because it is COMMON KNOWLEDGE how to build a modern-spec engine, and most ov the parts they find have more modern design, or hell... its easy just to swap in an LS or cheapo crate 351. Again... maybe its better where you guys live, but all i see are purpleshaft cams and 2lb pop-ups in crazy lookin' Mopars that run 14's. Hell... high tech exhaust in this camp seems to be electric cut-outs... (dont get me started).

/rant.

Posted By: BMChrysler68

Re: How much to build 440? - 12/12/14 05:53 PM

Are there any good production piston options available?

Posted By: moper

Re: How much to build 440? - 12/12/14 07:21 PM

If your goal is more "snap", I'd replace the cam and valve springs, put a good ignition system on it, and either get it properly tuned, or learn to tune it. You can get beyond 400hp very easilly without gtting into anything beyond the cam, and that includes the factory intake and carb. If you want to rebuild it properly for performance, it will cost somewhere between $4-5K depending on parts choices. But from what you say you have, and say you want, you have 95% of what you need. Work with a good knowledgable builder, do what is needed to get your result, and don't break the $1200 mark.

Posted By: Vert

Re: How much to build 440? - 12/12/14 07:28 PM

I love this thread. I have a zero deck 440 with E-heads, torque-plate honed, KB hyper pistons, Perf RPM, and 850 Speed Demon. Been sitting for 10 years, never fired. Gotta find a body for it. Love reading this, and figure the right cam should make 525 easy HP.

Posted By: LaRoy Engines

Re: How much to build 440? - 12/12/14 10:51 PM

Quote:

If your goal is more "snap", I'd replace the cam and valve springs, put a good ignition system on it, and either get it properly tuned, or learn to tune it. You can get beyond 400hp very easilly without gtting into anything beyond the cam, and that includes the factory intake and carb. If you want to rebuild it properly for performance, it will cost somewhere between $4-5K depending on parts choices. But from what you say you have, and say you want, you have 95% of what you need. Work with a good knowledgable builder, do what is needed to get your result, and don't break the $1200 mark.

TAH DAH! Right on.

Posted By: Fern

Re: How much to build 440? - 12/13/14 02:10 AM

Quote:

If your goal is more "snap", I'd replace the cam and valve springs, put a good ignition system on it, and either get it properly tuned, or learn to tune it. You can get beyond 400hp very easilly without gtting into anything beyond the cam, and that includes the factory intake and carb. If you want to rebuild it properly for performance, it will cost somewhere between $4-5K depending on parts choices. But from what you say you have, and say you want, you have 95% of what you need. Work with a good knowledgable builder, do what is needed to get your result, and don't break the $1200 mark.

What would you recomend for a good cam and ignition system?

Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: How much to build 440? - 12/13/14 05:30 AM

To answer your question and not being him, I would use a Comp Cams grind, either the XE274H grind or the bigger lift XE275HL grind

Install either one at 105 to 107 intake lobe center

On the ignition I would probally take a chance now on one of the Firecore units based on seing the large amount failure probllems on here with the MSD 6AL digital units

Posted By: BSB67

Re: How much to build 440? - 12/13/14 02:59 PM

Quote:

.....You can get beyond 400hp very easilly without gtting into anything beyond the cam, and that includes the factory intake and carb.

I'd like to see that.

Posted By: Pale_Roader

Re: How much to build 440? - 12/14/14 11:23 AM

Quote:

Quote:

.....You can get beyond 400hp very easilly without gtting into anything beyond the cam, and that includes the factory intake and carb.

I'd like to see that.

I'd believe it.

The engine that ended up in my Charger was first swapped into my friends 3950lb 73 Satellite... slushbox 727, highway gears. Duals, but small duals and no headers or even HP manifolds. Nothing but a Holley 670 and a recurve. That car was a lot faster than it should have been too. The ONLY mod done to the bone stock high-mile 76 440 (before we bought it) was a small cam... really small. Sounded like a 6-pack cam to me, or maybe a big 'RV" cam. The factory cams barely had lobes on them. LOTS ov power to find there. Between those, the awful factory intake (probably carb too, never had one) and adding longtubes you'd have an entirely different engine. Like, small block to big block different. It always astounded me just how much power the factory robbed from even the HP Magnums in stock form. Almost as bad as Cadillac big blocks (KINGS ov the sleeper engines).

Posted By: BSB67

Re: How much to build 440? - 12/14/14 01:09 PM

What did it run?

Posted By: Fern

Re: How much to build 440? - 12/14/14 04:27 PM

After some great advice here, this is what I'm comming up with.

Hughes whiplash cam.
Headman headers 78076. ( I picked these mid length headers since I have power steering and fast ratio arms. Still waithing for a response from them if these fit without modifiction).
Holley SD intake.
Already have 770 carb.

Hopefully wake her up a little.
Anything I am missing

Posted By: BSB67

Re: How much to build 440? - 12/14/14 05:05 PM

Quote:

After some great advice here, this is what I'm comming up with.

Hughes whiplash cam.
Headman headers 78076. ( I picked these mid length headers since I have power steering and fast ratio arms. Still waithing for a response from them if these fit without modifiction).
Holley SD intake.
Already have 770 carb.

Hopefully wake her up a little.
Anything I am missing

I know that the SD is very popular on this forum, and is often referred to as being "....as good as a dual plane..." For what it is worth, My experience and data suggests that it is not as good as a dual plane. I would classify the SD as: "...for a single plane manifold it does not suck down low...", and not to be confused with "...it is as good as a dual plane."

Even on my 500 in motor, the SD gave up measurable power and torque below 4500 rpm compared to the Indy dual plane and 6 pack intakes.

I personally would go Performer RPM, maybe even a CH4B.

Posted By: mopar346

Re: How much to build 440? - 12/14/14 06:00 PM

Quote:

I personally would go Performer RPM, maybe even a CH4B.

I'm pretty much a dual plane for the street period, kinda guy. The operating range of most if not all single planes are out of the operating range most used/effective on the street and very few are running enough convertor or gear to stand in the sweet spot of a single plane. Not to mention no many have the bottom end to live long take full advantage of a single plane intake. I also think you are still resticting yourself with the carb.

Posted By: LaRoy Engines

Re: How much to build 440? - 12/14/14 07:47 PM

I wish I had tested the Street Dominator, but unfortunately I forgot it was even on the shelf. Here are comparisons for the RPM dual plane, Torker II single plane, M1 single plane, M1 Single plane and 2" Super Sucker. The M1 was right OOTB and had no plenum modifications so the Super Sucker would transition properly. 440, 8.9:1 XE285HL, 850 Mighty Demon, 2.08/1.74 346 iron heads flowing 280cfm @ .600"

rpm......RPM TQ/HP......TKR II TQ/HP.....M1 TQ/HP.....M1+SS TQ/HP

3100......444/262.........416/246.........423/249.......439/259
3300......478/300.........447/281.........452/284.......467/294
3500......496/330.........481/321.........480/320.......488/325
3700......500/352.........488/344.........487/343.......502/353
4100......482/376.........464/362.........477/373.......487/380
4500......484/415.........489/419.........503/431.......514/441
4900......485/452.........503/469.........504/471.......512/478
5400......485/498.........490/503.........493/507.......505/519
5600......437/456.........463/493.........469/500.......480/511

If you have hood room the M1 and 2" spacer might be the ticket. I think that from 1500-3000rpm you may find that the stock iron 4bbl works best.

Posted By: Dean_Kuzluzski

Re: How much to build 440? - 12/14/14 10:42 PM

Quote:

Quote:

I personally would go Performer RPM, maybe even a CH4B.

I'm pretty much a dual plane for the street period, kinda guy. The operating range of most if not all single planes are out of the operating range most used/effective on the street and very few are running enough convertor or gear to stand in the sweet spot of a single plane. Not to mention no many have the bottom end to live long take full advantage of a single plane intake. I also think you are still resticting yourself with the carb.

On the street, what I call "Tip-in throttle response" is king in situations where you want to snap quickly from a light but not draw too much attention to yourself. My experience with single-planes left me without the torque that some vehicle with less high rpm HP had but already got the jump on me.

And then we had to shutdown due to the speed limit and visibility of that area we were in.

Now, add a high stall converter, gearing, D.O.T. tires, cam, carb and the rest of the package......game on.

Posted By: moper

Re: How much to build 440? - 12/15/14 04:32 PM

Quote:

Quote:

.....You can get beyond 400hp very easilly without gtting into anything beyond the cam, and that includes the factory intake and carb.

I'd like to see that.

Give me a decent running 440, any year, all stock. You pay parts and the dyno test after. I'll document anything I do. It's that simple.

Posted By: moper

Re: How much to build 440? - 12/15/14 04:39 PM

Quote:

Hughes whiplash cam.
Headman headers 78076. ( I picked these mid length headers since I have power steering and fast ratio arms. Still waithing for a response from them if these fit without modifiction).
Holley SD intake.
Already have 770 carb.
Anything I am missing

I'm no fan of Hughes personel or products. But a cam with 230� @ .050 or more should be fine to get you what you want. Make sure the heads will work with your choice, and you need to consider the valve springs that each cam will need. Some need dual springs and the guides cut down. A favorite cam of mine is the Crane H302-2 hydraulic - but it's not the cheapest. I've made close to 500hp in 440s with it but typically it's around 420-30.
I'd add a new ignition. Either the add-on box and distributor, or a new distributor that does it all. I like vacuum advance too - so I'd get one with it. I hear the FireCore unit might be a good choice but haven't tried one. I have used MSD with great results.

Posted By: Pale_Roader

Re: How much to build 440? - 12/16/14 10:33 AM

Quote:

What did it run?

That one never actually made it down the track, but it was always an annoyingly consistent 1/2 second behind my (FAR more modified) Charger. Forget how many lengths it was, but always the same. Those two cars shouldn't have been close. My Charger had EVERY advantage (save the stock non-HP cam it ran)... and i do mean thats IT. EVERYTHING else was better. Not to mention it was 300lbs lighter too. That Satellite was a complete whale. We even named it 'Willy'...

Even a small/mild non-stock cam is worth quite a bit, especially on a non-HP big block.

Posted By: Fern

Re: How much to build 440? - 12/24/14 12:33 AM

I just wanted to thank everyone for the replies and great suggestions.
I will dyno the motor before and after I do the swaps(RPM, whiplash, headers) and post.

Thanks

Posted By: mopar346

Re: How much to build 440? - 12/24/14 04:00 AM

Quote:

I had my stock 67 HP440 rebuilt using basic stuff, stock valve job, eddy 750, comp cams 275. 2800 stall and 3.23, which is an issue. It is a dog. Have to turn the wheels to break traction. Trans has shift kit and it will occasionally chirp, but I was hoping for more. Stock intake and hp ex. Manifolds. I am pretty sure my 2007 Avalanche would blow its doors.

Then something is wrong, my R/T has a smogger with it's 727 and the original 3.23 sure grip and it will light L60s at will on take off with just tomping it, much worse if I flex it up against the convertor and literally destroy them if I do a brake stand.

Posted By: d-150

Re: How much to build 440? - 12/24/14 04:31 AM

something wrong ,was ur cam dialed in.it should smoke an avalanche

Posted By: p d'ro

Re: How much to build 440? - 12/24/14 05:25 AM

So my basic build was $3500 includng cam and heads. I am not sure if cam was dialed in right. Car runs very well, pulls 20lbs vacuum, starts easily and revs smooth. Just has no pants in the seat pull. Distributor curve done by FBO. Stock setup on eddy 750. May need more or dialing in? I have an A/F gauge to hook up and already have a bung welded in.. No time, plus I have never reworked eddy carbs.
Motor was done by known guy whose engines win in local FAST series. WHo knows. I mean new it was stock a 15 second car. If I had to guess now it is close to that.
I look forward to what the thread starter does with his motor and what he gets out of it. You are always wanting for more, so I suggest going bigger then you think you should.
In my case I may find a 67 RT or GTX with an awesome motor, swap with mine, and flip the other one. Maybe break even as mine has under 1k miles.

Posted By: mopar346

Re: How much to build 440? - 12/24/14 05:31 AM

Quote:

So my basic build was $3500 includng cam and heads. I am not sure if cam was dialed in right. Car runs very well, pulls 20lbs vacuum, starts easily and revs smooth. Just has no pants in the seat pull. Distributor curve done by FBO. Stock setup on eddy 750. May need more or dialing in? I have an A/F gauge to hook up and already have a bung welded in.. No time, plus I have never reworked eddy carbs.
Motor was done by known guy whose engines win in local FAST series. WHo knows. I mean new it was stock a 15 second car. If I had to guess now it is close to that.
I look forward to what the thread starter does with his motor and what he gets out of it. You are always wanting for more, so I suggest going bigger then you think you should.
In my case I may find a 67 RT or GTX with an awesome motor, swap with mine, and flip the other one. Maybe break even as mine has under 1k miles.

I would take it to the well known builder and have him look at it, could be something simple. I would think an out of the box Eddy should be fine to smoke'm, maybe your convertor isn't right, might be flexing or flattening out. The 3.23s aren't the/a problem.

Posted By: d-150

Re: How much to build 440? - 12/24/14 05:53 AM

i did a bearing, ring job on a 440 smogger 77 pickup. put a 484 cam in it .stock 120000 miles it ran a 15.8,rebuild 14.7,thats with 3.23.it really needed 3.91 and better traction

Posted By: p d'ro

Re: How much to build 440? - 12/24/14 06:30 AM

When I bought mine it had a 77 truck motor with a bigger cam and better heads claimed to have been done by the McCandless shop. The motor ran well. I wanted to do a stock resto so found the correct hp block and had it done. In hindsight I should have put some more into the heads and maybe intake..
Now I want to buy a 67 gtx or rt with a stronger motor, swap them and sell the car. I shouldn't lose much as mine has less than 1k miles and looks great.

Posted By: d-150

Re: How much to build 440? - 12/24/14 07:06 AM

got a set of 67 915 heads with a valve job done, stock valves if interested

Posted By: Mr.Yuck

Re: How much to build 440? - 12/24/14 03:33 PM

Quote:

So my basic build was $3500 includng cam and heads. I am not sure if cam was dialed in right. Car runs very well, pulls 20lbs vacuum, starts easily and revs smooth. Just has no pants in the seat pull. Distributor curve done by FBO. Stock setup on eddy 750. May need more or dialing in? I have an A/F gauge to hook up and already have a bung welded in.. No time, plus I have never reworked eddy carbs.
Motor was done by known guy whose engines win in local FAST series. WHo knows. I mean new it was stock a 15 second car. If I had to guess now it is close to that.
I look forward to what the thread starter does with his motor and what he gets out of it. You are always wanting for more, so I suggest going bigger then you think you should.
In my case I may find a 67 RT or GTX with an awesome motor, swap with mine, and flip the other one. Maybe break even as mine has under 1k miles.

Hey P d'ro, once the holidays are over I'll swing by or you can come by here and we'll get that thing right. My 67 GTX w/ 87k and nothing more than a Summit 488 cam ran 13.80 w/ the stock tiny carter. With 3.55's, street tires and factory stall. I also ran 12.90 in a 67 Coronet w/ a maybe 9:1 440, 906 heads, RPM intake, 750DP, headers, 2800 stall and 3.91's. A warm 440 should blow the tires up at will and run mid 13's w/ a good tune.

Posted By: p d'ro

Re: How much to build 440? - 12/24/14 04:54 PM

Quote:

Quote:

So my basic build was $3500 includng cam and heads. I am not sure if cam was dialed in right. Car runs very well, pulls 20lbs vacuum, starts easily and revs smooth. Just has no pants in the seat pull. Distributor curve done by FBO. Stock setup on eddy 750. May need more or dialing in? I have an A/F gauge to hook up and already have a bung welded in.. No time, plus I have never reworked eddy carbs.
Motor was done by known guy whose engines win in local FAST series. WHo knows. I mean new it was stock a 15 second car. If I had to guess now it is close to that.
I look forward to what the thread starter does with his motor and what he gets out of it. You are always wanting for more, so I suggest going bigger then you think you should.
In my case I may find a 67 RT or GTX with an awesome motor, swap with mine, and flip the other one. Maybe break even as mine has under 1k miles.

Hey P d'ro, once the holidays are over I'll swing by or you can come by here and we'll get that thing right. My 67 GTX w/ 87k and nothing more than a Summit 488 cam ran 13.80 w/ the stock tiny carter. With 3.55's, street tires and factory stall. I also ran 12.90 in a 67 Coronet w/ a maybe 9:1 440, 906 heads, RPM intake, 750DP, headers, 2800 stall and 3.91's. A warm 440 should blow the tires up at will and run mid 13's w/ a good tune.

I will take u up on your gracious offer. I blame it on the 255 Coker red lines being sticky. Funny right. After I put on the exhaust manifold gasket and see how it runs I will touch base. Hopefully the poisonous stink doesn't come back.
Have a happy holiday. My son just pulled a 104 fever so we will spend Xmas eve at the dr.

Posted By: p d'ro

Re: How much to build 440? - 12/24/14 04:56 PM

Quote:

got a set of 67 915 heads with a valve job done, stock valves if interested

My 915s were done stock. I gave my old set of heads with the other engine to my painter. I wonder if he still has them???

Posted By: mopar346

Re: How much to build 440? - 12/25/14 01:43 AM

Hope your son feels better by morning.

Merry Christmas!

Posted By: p d'ro

Re: How much to build 440? - 12/25/14 05:22 AM

Quote:

Hope your son feels better by morning.

Merry Christmas!

Merry Xmas to all and Happy Holidays. Son had a positive flu test so we will not be doing family traveling, but will still show him a great time. I hope all of you and yours the best. pete

Posted By: Twostick

Re: How much to build 440? - 12/27/14 06:15 AM

Quote:

Maybe this will give you a few ideas. We invited the neighbors over for a 'dyno day' at the shop and made a few changes to a 7.5:1 compression 440 over about eight hours and made a dyno pull after each change. It wasn't designed to be a perfect combination, we started with stock 906 heads and used parts we had laying around.

Low compression 440 dyno test.

400 seems pretty easy as I suspected. I would think it might have done even better with the 528 solid.

Kevin

Posted By: BSB67

Re: How much to build 440? - 12/27/14 02:16 PM

What parts? Stock intake and stock carb, right? That was the criteria claimed.

Posted By: GY3

Re: How much to build 440? - 12/27/14 04:30 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Maybe this will give you a few ideas. We invited the neighbors over for a 'dyno day' at the shop and made a few changes to a 7.5:1 compression 440 over about eight hours and made a dyno pull after each change. It wasn't designed to be a perfect combination, we started with stock 906 heads and used parts we had laying around.

Low compression 440 dyno test.

400 seems pretty easy as I suspected. I would think it might have done even better with the 528 solid.

I did a ring and bearing and head refresh on a '71 440 shortblock with 452 heads. CR ended up being 9.5:1.

With a.528 MP solid, headers, recurved dist. and a 750 3310 Holley being the only mods, it did a 13.50@104mph. No traction and horrible 60ft. times. With slicks and decent springs it would've easily hit 12's. It was a torque monster on the street! 2500 stall converter and 3.23 highway gears. The .528 barely had a lope once warmed up! 320 HP at the rear wheels. I really feel the stock intake was a major cork in the combination.

My most recent build is kinda the opposite as I used a '75 shortblock that only needed rings and bearings as well. It was lower compression but I used 906 heads and a .484 MP hydraulic. It feels stronger than the previous motor but I haven't had it to the track. It too still has the cast iron lump of a dual plane but will be getting my Holley Street Dominator installed soon. May do a back to back comparison.

The recurve and degreeing in the cam is where most people miss the tuneup. Mr. Gasket #925B lightweight springs in a Chrysler electronic distributor feeding an MSD 6AL box is a great ignition!

Using the Holley 750 3310, I used the lightest weight spring in the vacuum secondaries as well and never had it bog. I have an 850 Demon that I'm going to try on the latest build.

Good flowing heads are KEY in making 440's run. The 906's have a slight flow advantage over all the other head castings. They wake up even the soggiest low comp. motors.

Posted By: BSB67

Re: How much to build 440? - 12/27/14 06:16 PM

Quote:

I did a ring and bearing and head refresh on a '71 440 shortblock with 452 heads. CR ended up being 9.5:1.

With a.528 MP solid, headers, recurved dist. and a 750 3310 Holley being the only mods, it did a [Email]13.50@104mph.[/Email] No traction and horrible 60ft. times. With slicks and decent springs it would've easily hit 12's. It was a torque monster on the street! 2500 stall converter and 3.23 highway gears. The .528 barely had a lope once warmed up! 320 HP at the rear wheels. I really feel the stock intake was a major cork in the combination.

Your compression was higher than ours, but this is where we ended up too, in both performance and conclusion. Getting the iron intake over 350 hp is the challenge, I think.

Posted By: GY3

Re: How much to build 440? - 12/27/14 06:25 PM

Quote:

Quote:

I did a ring and bearing and head refresh on a '71 440 shortblock with 452 heads. CR ended up being 9.5:1.

With a.528 MP solid, headers, recurved dist. and a 750 3310 Holley being the only mods, it did a [Email]13.50@104mph.[/Email] No traction and horrible 60ft. times. With slicks and decent springs it would've easily hit 12's. It was a torque monster on the street! 2500 stall converter and 3.23 highway gears. The .528 barely had a lope once warmed up! 320 HP at the rear wheels. I really feel the stock intake was a major cork in the combination.

Your compression was higher than ours, but this is where we ended up too, in both performance and conclusion. Getting the iron intake over 350 hp is the challenge, I think.

I'm really curious to see what the Street Dominator and 850 carb does...

Oh yeah, the latest 440 ran me about $2,600 to build with the heads being the major expense. It does have stuff that wasn't necessary like a 7 quart deep sump and aluminum water pump and housing. Truly one of the nicest original block/crank combo's I've encountered. I paid $375 for the core motor.

Posted By: GY3

Re: How much to build 440? - 12/28/14 03:04 PM

The .528 cammed motor used a stock '71 intake.

906 heads would've helped as would have a better intake.

Low compression isn't all that horrible as some people would have you believe. A good flowing set of heads is critical to making good power.

Posted By: mopar346

Re: How much to build 440? - 12/29/14 07:08 PM

Although I am familiar with those mods and their effectiveness, they are beyond the cam, so not eligible or needed by his description.

Posted By: b54406barrel

Re: How much to build 440? - 12/29/14 09:02 PM

Thread's still going? The correct answer is 'Too much'. Build a 600 hp chevy for what it cost to build a 400 hp mopar.

Posted By: Fern

Re: How much to build 440? - 03/28/15 12:59 PM

Sorry for bringing up an old thread, but
I've decided to put the hughes whiplash cam
lifters, Rpm intake.
Keep the 906 heads.
MSD 6al
I would like to keep the stock exhaust logs since I dont care for headers.

If I dont change to headers, will it make a huge difference?

The dyno's I have found dont test with headers, so I have no idea how much HP would be lost with the logs.

Posted By: GTX MATT

Re: How much to build 440? - 03/28/15 03:18 PM

I would guess around 30. It will be significant.

Posted By: gdonovan

Re: How much to build 440? - 03/28/15 03:31 PM

Quote:

With a.528 MP solid, headers, recurved dist. and a 750 3310 Holley being the only mods, it did a [Email]13.50@104mph.[/Email] No traction and horrible 60ft. times. With slicks and decent springs it would've easily hit 12's. It was a torque monster on the street!

I had a low compression 440 in my GTX for a bit.

Stock heads, 509 cam, headers, TM7 intake with a TQ and a manual trans and it made several 12.6 passes on slicks without breaking a sweat.

I'd not worry about the shortblock too much. Pop in a better cam, find an aluminum intake like a Performer RPM or one of the DP4B? dual planes with a 750-850 cfm carb, headers mandatory and recurve the distributor and go have fun on pump swill gas.

Posted By: gdonovan

Re: How much to build 440? - 03/28/15 03:35 PM

Quote:

The dyno's I have found dont test with headers, so I have no idea how much HP would be lost with the logs.

I have seen tests on small blocks back to back, as much as 40 hp left on the table. And that was at a 300 hp level.

30hp minimum would the floor but with a 400hp motor I think it would be higher than 40 hp.

Posted By: terzmo

Re: How much to build 440? - 03/28/15 03:50 PM

professional mopar engine builder in WNY area wll rebuild your existing motor with all new internals and head job for 3500. Choose from a good selection of cams and the motor will produce well over 440hp on pump gas

Posted By: Dean_Kuzluzski

Re: How much to build 440? - 03/28/15 04:06 PM

Are they "logs" as in lo-perf or the HP manifolds.

If truly the logs, I would try a set of headers with the thicker 3/8" flanges. Or not waste my time. Too much left on the table.

Posted By: gdonovan

Re: How much to build 440? - 03/28/15 04:30 PM

Quote:

Are they "logs" as in lo-perf or the HP manifolds.

If truly the logs, I would try a set of headers with the thicker 3/8" flanges. Or not waste my time. Too much left on the table.

Did you see the dyno testing done on the 440 mentioned in this thread? I went through the 6 pages and read everything.

Going from logs to HP manifolds was of little beneficent at the hp level they were at (stock intake, cam and carb I think) and it looked like over 3500 RPM the manifolds were a choke point.

Headers all the way.

I have manifolds on my Duster that are going in the bin, the fact I'm leaving at least 40 hp on the table irks me badly.

Posted By: Twostick

Re: How much to build 440? - 03/28/15 05:02 PM

If you aren't going to use headers then the cam you want is the MP528 solid. AndyF tested a bunch and with manifolds it did the best by a good margin.

Kevin

Posted By: BSB67

Re: How much to build 440? - 03/28/15 06:54 PM

Quote:

professional mopar engine builder in WNY area wll rebuild your existing motor with all new internals and head job for 3500. Choose from a good selection of cams and the motor will produce well over 440hp on pump gas

Is this to me from a couple months ago? If so, please elaborate.

Posted By: BSB67

Re: How much to build 440? - 03/28/15 07:01 PM

Quote:

Sorry for bringing up an old thread, but
I've decided to put the hughes whiplash cam
lifters, Rpm intake.
Keep the 906 heads.
MSD 6al
I would like to keep the stock exhaust logs since I dont care for headers.

If I dont change to headers, will it make a huge difference?

The dyno's I have found dont test with headers, so I have no idea how much HP would be lost with the logs.

I've worked on quite a few low compression 440 and 440 exhaust manifold cars with the focus on performance.

Frankly, I'm not sure how that will work. I think your low compression motor will like the boost in cylinder pressure that this cam will give, but exhaust manifold cars usually do not respond real well to a bunch of overlap (relatively speaking).

If Hughes recommended it for your application, you should go for it, and report back.

Posted By: Fern

Re: How much to build 440? - 03/28/15 07:45 PM

Hughes recommends this cam for my application. If I can get enough out of this motor it would be great not to remove it from the car. Hughes says to keep the heads on, just change the cam and lifters.

I'm not too sure if I like the idle as radical, but as long as I can get more HP and it can still be a daily driver, its fine.
Sounds like I will need headers.

Thank you

Posted By: BSB67

Re: How much to build 440? - 03/28/15 08:16 PM

Quote:

I've worked on quite a few low compression 440 and 440 exhaust manifold cars with the focus on performance.

Frankly, I'm not sure how that will work. I think your low compression motor will like the boost in cylinder pressure that this cam will give, but exhaust manifold cars usually do not respond real well to a bunch of overlap (relatively speaking).

If Hughes recommended it for your application, you should go for it, and report back.

I was not really suggesting that you get headers. You should be more optimistic about the cam, Hughes knows a thing or two about Mopars and cams. And if it's not right for you, try another. After you do your first cam change in the car, the next one will take 1/3 the time. Years ago, a cam change is what I did on Saturdays before I picked up my girl friend for dinner.

Good luck