440 source stuff

Posted By: BowtieKillr

440 source stuff - 11/13/14 07:18 PM

Looking to build a stroker around 500 to 540 c.i. for bracket racing. How reliable is the 440 source stuff compared to the high $ stuff. D

o you guys run there stuff and if so how do you like it.

Posted By: RapidRobert

Re: 440 source stuff - 11/13/14 07:26 PM

welcome aboard

. Early on way back, source got bashed a bit & I think there were some quality control issues with their heads/water pumps which I believe have been resolved & alot of people (on here) have used their stuff with a few issues with the valve train gear but alot of people are happy with them expecially stealth heads & you need to have any mailorder stuff from anyone gone over by your local trusted/competent machinist. I'm gonna pull the trigger on a 535 RB source stroker kit (go big or go home) as soon as those slick talking lawyers in California settle up for their insured driver tboning my daily driver

Attached picture 8329946-key005.jpg

Posted By: mikemee1331

Re: 440 source stuff - 11/13/14 07:39 PM

Yikes Robert! I heard about that accident but never saw any pics! anyway to the OP, I haven't heard any bad rumblings on this board about their stuff in a number of years. there are a few guys that absolutely hate them but I think that's mostly because a lot of the parts aren't manufactured in the US. while I would be much happier with that also my pockets aren't deep enough. i'm gonna be pulling the trigger on their water pump/housing very soon. I've read enough recent stuff to be ok that the narrow channel issue has been addressed.

Posted By: BowtieKillr

Re: 440 source stuff - 11/13/14 08:50 PM

Well ive been a member since around 2007 her , but havent been doing anything but spectating and im ready to start putting the dart back together. Just would hate to build a stroker with 440's parts and it come apart because of parts failure. i know thats always a chance with everything you buy in racing but that would really suck big time. Still a little gun shy !!! Thanks any how guys .

Posted By: mikemee1331

Re: 440 source stuff - 11/13/14 08:53 PM

Quote:

Well ive been a member since around 2007 her , but havent been doing anything but spectating and im ready to start putting the dart back together. Just would hate to build a stroker with 440's parts and it come apart because of parts failure. i know thats always a chance with everything you buy in racing but that would really suck big time. Still a little gun shy !!! Thanks any how guys .

ya might ask the question over on the racer forum...

Posted By: mike s

Re: 440 source stuff - 11/13/14 08:59 PM

I have used source stuff and so far so good.I do check all the parts carefully.I would not use any of the valve train parts that come on the assembled heads but other than that I have no issues.

Posted By: Stanton

Re: 440 source stuff - 11/13/14 11:04 PM

I've bought a lot of their stuff and have had "concerns" with some of it. HOWEVER, I did buy their 528" stroker kit and other than having to fit the pins, everything checked out fine. I bought the balanced assembly but did not have that checked - what's the point, it costs the same to check it as it does to actually balance it. So on that note, you either trust them or you have it done locally.

You will hear a lot of China bashers here that have never so much as seen a 440Source part in person let alone bought one. Take their comments with a grain of salt.

Posted By: pittsburghracer

Re: 440 source stuff - 11/14/14 01:59 AM

My 500 cubic inch assembly went 275 runs in my Daytona (8.60's@155mph) before the block finally cracked. That same assembly is still going strong in a street car now.

Posted By: BEINGmeISaCRIME

Re: 440 source stuff - 11/14/14 04:02 AM

I bought a set of their bare stealth heads and was very happy with them. I put all comp hardware in them and surfaced the heads to lower the chamber volume a little bit. I mainly went with them because they look like a factory casting. You can't tell the difference once they're painted

Posted By: Sinitro

Re: 440 source stuff - 11/14/14 04:12 AM

Here is one person's experience..
A close friend bought a pile of the source stuff building his 65 Belvedere, here are his results..
1. Ignition box, failed after 30 days
2. Valley pan, failed after 60 days
3. Water pump housing, engine ran hot switched out to the Mopar performance part no issues.
4. Oil pan, leaked replaced with a Milodon
5. Distributor, OK
6. Stealth heads, OK
7. 509 Stroker crank kit, OK
8. Adjustable rocker arms, OK
9. Mini-starter, failed after 1K miles

IMHO..
Their stroker kits and heads are fine, but the other stuff is marginal. Note that the car has <1200 street driven miles so little actual running time on the various parts.
In today's tight economy everyone want to save $ thats why we have other options such as Harbor Freight.

Just my $0.02...

Posted By: BEINGmeISaCRIME

Re: 440 source stuff - 11/14/14 05:14 AM

What oil pan did he have? I bought the 6qt hemi pan and haven't had any leaks on mine.

Posted By: 383man

Re: 440 source stuff - 11/14/14 05:53 AM

I use their stroker kit also and its been in my car running for over three years with no problems. Most just say the piston pins are a bit tight as mine were also but I just worked them and fitted them myself. The rest checked out ok and is working good. Ron

Posted By: Sinitro

Re: 440 source stuff - 11/14/14 06:17 AM

Quote:

What oil pan did he have? I bought the 6qt hemi pan and haven't had any leaks on mine.

Here U go..
There was a hairline crack in the welded seam..

Just my $0.02..

Posted By: TOMRR

Re: 440 source stuff - 11/14/14 02:59 PM

Got a water pump from them, JUNK !!!! HP440 Over Heated !! Got a Mopar performance problem solved

Posted By: DaytonaTurbo

Re: 440 source stuff - 11/14/14 03:22 PM

I have a set of their heads from the first production batch, no problems. Have their oil pan as well with no problems. Bought a bunch of small knick knacks there too with no problems.

I have heard guys had problems with their roller rockers, which is not surprising when guys go and run 600 lb spring pressures on an el cheapo china rocker. I went with crane rockers instead.

Posted By: Stanton

Re: 440 source stuff - 11/14/14 04:21 PM

Quote:

Quote:

What oil pan did he have? I bought the 6qt hemi pan and haven't had any leaks on mine.

Here U go..
There was a hairline crack in the welded seam..

Just my $0.02..

I've heard of similar problems with Milodons so I wouldn't consider this a show stopper. Honestly, I believe all oil pans come from the same place - there's no way a company could justify the cost of dies to stamp out Mopar oil pans. My guess would be Milodon makes the pans and sells to 440Source, Summit, etc who "rebrand" the pan. Likewise with the windage trays.

440Source stuff I've had/have:
distributor - sold to someone who needed it urgently
water pump - hogged out the passage but got a smokin deal on a MP piece - sold the 440Source piece
heads - sold - decided the stroker needed more flow, bought Indys
fabbed timing cover - sold - crank seal hole was offset once installed. Probably wouldn't have been an issue but I wasn't satisfied.
valley tray and holddowns - sold - didn't need them after sellin the heads
alternator and bracket kit - on the motor. This is an Andy F. kit FWIW
serpentine pulleys and belt - on the motor - very nice pieces
fluid damper - on the motor
rear oil seal kit - on the motor
complete stroker kit - in the motor

Posted By: BowtieKillr

Re: 440 source stuff - 11/14/14 07:16 PM

Hey Stanton , The new Super Stealth head is it Anywhere near the Indy's stuff.

Posted By: rickseeman

Re: 440 source stuff - 11/14/14 08:30 PM

Quote:

Got a water pump from them, JUNK !!!! HP440 Over Heated !! Got a Mopar performance problem solved

Posted By: jeepers007

Re: 440 source stuff - 11/14/14 09:23 PM

The water pump issue is no longer relevant unless you buy one used. They have changed the design.

Posted By: JohnRR

Re: 440 source stuff - 11/14/14 10:05 PM

Quote:

Hey Stanton , The new Super Stealth head is it Anywhere near the Indy's stuff.

Posted By: Sinitro

Re: 440 source stuff - 11/14/14 10:46 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

What oil pan did he have? I bought the 6qt hemi pan and haven't had any leaks on mine.

Here U go..
There was a hairline crack in the welded seam..

Just my $0.02..

I've heard of similar problems with Milodons so I wouldn't consider this a show stopper. Honestly, I believe all oil pans come from the same place - there's no way a company could justify the cost of dies to stamp out Mopar oil pans. My guess would be Milodon makes the pans and sells to 440Source, Summit, etc who "rebrand" the pan. Likewise with the windage trays.

440Source stuff I've had/have:
distributor - sold to someone who needed it urgently
water pump - hogged out the passage but got a smokin deal on a MP piece - sold the 440Source piece
heads - sold - decided the stroker needed more flow, bought Indys
fabbed timing cover - sold - crank seal hole was offset once installed. Probably wouldn't have been an issue but I wasn't satisfied.
valley tray and holddowns - sold - didn't need them after sellin the heads
alternator and bracket kit - on the motor. This is an Andy F. kit FWIW
serpentine pulleys and belt - on the motor - very nice pieces
fluid damper - on the motor
rear oil seal kit - on the motor
complete stroker kit - in the motor

Noted your experiences..
Since we travel to China frequently sourcing consumer electronics for certain major clients, we understand the Chinese culture and manufacturing system very well. Note that we are responsible for purchasing in excess of $100 million of merchandise @ FOB level. Also we have visited China and their factories over 35 times...
The basic problem is monitoring the tooling and raw material sourcing process, plus auditing the mass-production process. If U don't have someone on site it is a crapshoot. Plus U have to conduct in-depth outgoing product quality inspection using AQL standards.

Many companies source from China through a broker agent and again who knows if they are paid off or not. We have known 440Source and some of their principals for over 10 years, and could disclose multiple stories about them....

Suffice to say if U are building a high performance engine, don't cut corners use established quality brands of equipment..
If not, as pappy says...
The lowest price is not always the best deal...

Just my $0.02...

Posted By: TOMRR

Re: 440 source stuff - 11/15/14 12:21 AM

Quote:

Got a water pump from them, JUNK !!!! HP440 Over Heated !! Got a Mopar performance problem solved

And by the way when I called them about it their attitude was to bad!!!
Will Never Use Them Ever Again !!!!!

Posted By: RSNOMO

Re: 440 source stuff - 11/15/14 01:06 AM

Quote:

Suffice to say if U are building a high performance engine, don't cut corners use established quality brands of equipment..
If not, as pappy says...
The lowest price is not always the best deal...

Thank-You...

Posted By: Skeptic

Re: 440 source stuff - 11/15/14 03:39 AM

Quote:

Quote:

What oil pan did he have? I bought the 6qt hemi pan and haven't had any leaks on mine.

Here U go..
There was a hairline crack in the welded seam..

Just my $0.02..

I have a Mildon Road Race pan that had a leaky weld- found out after the warranty period, newly installed when it was getting set up on a dyno. I had it fixed and moved on, I should have filled to test for leaks after I got it. I meant to but it never happened. Everyone messes up, I've had defective parts NIB from every vendor I've gotten parts from over the last 30+ years as a mechanic.

Posted By: RapidRobert

Re: 440 source stuff - 11/15/14 03:57 AM

Quote:

We have known 440Source and some of their principals for over 10 years, and could disclose multiple stories about them....

Just my $0.02...

Are the stories good or bad

Posted By: dogdays

Re: 440 source stuff - 11/17/14 07:53 PM

What do you think? Does anyone take the time to gossip telling "good" stories?

This is just another example of Mopar people griping about any supplier you can name.

I have my asbestos underwear on, so don't bother flaming.....

R.

Posted By: Stanton

Re: 440 source stuff - 11/18/14 12:32 AM

Very good point - you rarely see posts about items that work, fit or look as expected simply because when they do they are merely "meeting expectations". Besides, wouldn't it get tiring really fast if we posted our pleasure at every item we bought that meets our expectations !!!

Posted By: rowin4

Re: 440 source stuff - 11/18/14 02:40 AM

Seems to be a lot of 440 source water pump problems out there but I haven't had a problem. I bought a complete rotating assembly for a 505 stroker, water pump and housing, timing set and oil pan. Haven't had a problem with anything except the oil pan, pulled the wheels a little to high , when it cam down it shortened the pan about a inch causing the sides to split, Did the same for the Milodon before that. also did it to the pan I fabricated after those but my pan didn't leak. I have 100's of 1/4 mile passes with no mechanical problems and if I did I would buy from them again. High price is not always good. My buddy had his engine built with the best, all ARP fasteners, JE pistons, Oliver rods etc. Rod came out after 8 runs, was it the engine builder? the Oliver rod? or the ARP big end rod bolt?

Posted By: 68KillerBee

Re: 440 source stuff - 11/18/14 09:28 AM

Stealth heads straight out of the box and had a huge performance increase (although my old heads were eating oil). Never had a problem with them and now that I'm building a stroker, they will end up on it.
Also had a mini starter from them, no problems.

Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: 440 source stuff - 11/18/14 09:59 AM

I think I remember most of the early complaints on 440 Source parts on here where from other vendors who, probally, never bought or used or seen any of Brandon(the owner of 440 source) parts

I ran into the same thing(being bashed by vendors who posted on here on how good there non Chinese parts where) back in the early 2000s when I posted about using Ohio Crankshaft Company forged steel stroker crankshafts being good shruggy: The bad thing on the haters parts(Eagles, K1, Scat and others) where they where Chinese made forging and finished here in the U.S. and then advertised as U.S. made

I did buy a bunch of CAT parts when they first came out, some of them worked okay and some fail right away on racing applications

I try not to use street parts on race motors anymore,that is part of paying your dues and getting educated

Not all of us are born smart and know everything about racing and race parts from birth with no personel expereinces

Regardless what some people claim

I've had some very good mahinest in SO CA look at 4 different sets of forged steel H beam rods rods I had(back in the late 1990s) one set of CAT, one set of Eagles, one set of RPM and one set of of Carrillo with L19 bolts. One long time machinest spotted the Carillos right away but didn't reconignze(SP?) any of the others, when I ask him how he knew which set(none of them had any markings on them

) the Carrillos where his explanation was that all the Carrillo rods where double shot peened back then, the others weren't

I've had failures from many different good vendors, no one out there makes perfect parts 100 % of the time

Racing is hard on parts

Nuff said, goodnight

Posted By: 70Cuda383

Re: 440 source stuff - 11/18/14 12:53 PM

First hand knowledge...

my machine shop said their kit was perfect right out of the box, didn't need any machine work to fix anything. I literally had the assembly balanced, and then put it together.

I saw a friend use their aluminum roller rockers. They failed within a couple thousand miles. I would NOT use any of their valve train gear.

how's that compare to a Made in the US brand like Edelbrock? I've used 3 sets of RPM heads. one big block set, was great out of the box. first set of small block had such bad intake valve jobs, I could see daylight through the seat when the valve was "closed" had to spend $130 to have all the seats fixed. Second set of small block heads, my machine shop said looked great, had no issues.

Posted By: GY3

Re: 440 source stuff - 11/18/14 02:41 PM

Used their water pump, housing, 6 qt. pan and water pump pulley.

No issues and everything fit great!

Posted By: 70blackfish

Re: 440 source stuff - 11/19/14 06:25 AM

my .02 ...MILODON PANS SUK!!!!

Posted By: 1968RR

Re: 440 source stuff - 11/19/14 06:38 AM

Quote:

I have used source stuff and so far so good.I do check all the parts carefully.I would not use any of the valve train parts that come on the assembled heads but other than that I have no issues.

As far as whether or not they'll compare to the flow numbers and potential of Indy heads, I think Indy will always come out on top.
I've read a lot of rants on this board about the stroker kits, but I don't know of any cases of catastrophic failure. However, if you go that route, you should definitely get them checked out by a good machinist before building.
If you decide to go with a 440 Source stoker kit, you should maybe consider a better flowing head from someplace like Indy, rather than go with the Stealths.
Good luck.

Posted By: moparmojo

Re: 440 source stuff - 11/19/14 07:47 AM

I would love to know how a valley pan fails" and if it were to somehow fail why it was not noticed on installation. Please do tell.

Posted By: rowin4

Re: 440 source stuff - 11/19/14 08:45 AM

I don't know how his failed but I had one split open when a cam lobe on the exhaust valve wiped off. Built up pressure in the engine , popped it up and split down the middle. Something had to give. Should I have blamed the turtle shell pan? By the way that was NAPA sold part. { Gasket }

Posted By: moparmojo

Re: 440 source stuff - 11/19/14 04:43 PM

Well that was kind of my thought as you don't hear valley pans fail on their own.

Posted By: Dartman440

Re: 440 source stuff - 11/19/14 05:17 PM

I have used about 15 stroker kits from them. One engine has about 8,000 hard miles and runs great.No problems with crank kits. I had them all checked out also and everything was on the money.When Dean Nicopolis was alive he used to use their cranks and he turned me onto them. As far as the heads go. I had one of the best porting guys in the business do the max on a stealth head. They were all done making power @ 5700 rpm. I was a little bummed thought they wouId have been more power. If you are going for more I would go a different head route. For the street not a bad set up to save some weight. However the 512 stroker kit made 630 Ft pds@ 3,000 rpm on that engine. I have never used their rockers. But if you want the best or no worries use Harland and Sharp or real good ones. Just my 2 cents

Posted By: Boosted

Re: 440 source stuff - 11/19/14 09:34 PM

Used many kits from them. Building a 512 Stealth Head from source right now for a buddy and his convertible 67 GTX 440 car. Had Hughes custom grind a cam for it so it will make power from 1400-5000rpm. Should be a tq monster and a real sleeper as the car is unrestored and will stay that way. We are wondering how it is going to run down the highway with the 2.94 and eaton locker.

Never had an issue with anything I have bought from them.

Posted By: cedarmachine

Re: 440 source stuff - 11/20/14 04:13 AM

I use only made in USA parts. I just have too high of a regard for my cars to use anything else. This alone seems to "weed out" parts failure problems. Cost cannot even be a factor when it comes to my personal projects. I have to use the best parts or wait. Period.

Sure, nobody's perfect, but in my experience, the USA made parts have always been most consistent and highest quality. I remember when there were no Chinese parts polluting the market. Fortunately, I in a position to refuse to use the stuff in my business.

Posted By: 383man

Re: 440 source stuff - 11/20/14 06:38 AM

As I stated before I built my 493 in my 63 with their stroker kit and its still running fine. I also have very good service when I called them. But I have only used their stroker kits as I have not used the waterpumps or rockers as they are the two parts I have heard had some problems. But I believe the waterpump is corrected. What I have used of theirs has been very good for me. As for rockers this is the first eng I built of my own that I have used roller rockers on and I have Hughes rockers on my eng now as they are a nice rocker and holding up great. Ron