LX cars frame rust?

Does anyone with a newer 5.7 LX car know if there are heat shields on the cats? My '05 never had them, and after looking at pics online it is kinda hard to tell if they were added to newer models. Or maybe someone has access to a parts fiche? If they indeed did add heat shields later in production it's pretty obvious Chrysler knew this could be a problem. I also wonder if the six cylinder models have the cats as close to the rails as the hemi versions?
Sorry to whine, I really love my car so this drives me nuts...

Strange place for rust. How is it stored? I've seen cars stored in damp garages get rust like that. I've never seen major rust from mice pee. More of a problem is if they make a nest in a place that can get wet and hold water.

Thank you for helping me work through this problem. My car spent most of its life in a dry, newer garage with a polished concrete floor. It has been outside since May. I wash and polish it several times a week and it has never had any body damage. The car currently has 94,000 miles.

You say it gets washed alot. Is it possible that water is getting into the frame and "pooling" in those areas. If that's possible, then may want to drill some additional drains.

That really sucks man, especially since you've taken such good care of it, that's as nice a Magnum as I've ever seen (mines a twin to yours, just not as clean, also runs 14.3's in the 1/4 ).

Bite the bullet and get it fixed, while your in there with the exhaust off, put on a set of SRT8 manifolds and mid pipes for a little extra

Thanks for the kudos on my car! I don't just love that thing...I think I'm in love with it. Anyway, I took it to Niagara Chrysler for mechanical inspection of the rotted frame area this morning. They were very pleasant, professional and on time. The mechanic who inspected my car called another mechanic over to see the damage as well. Neither had seen one go like this before. He noted how clean my car was elsewhere and that the frame drain holes were clear.

The mechanic then called the service manager over, who took a large number of photos of the damage and of my car in general. On his own initiative the service manager will be using his photos to go along with a report he is writing to submit to Chrysler Canada later today.

I've got my fingers crossed...
I took another couple pics this morning while the car was on the hoist.This is the left side.

Here is a pic from today of the right side damage alongside the catalytic converter.

That's great that you have a dealership that does it's best to help the customer instead of blowing you off with "it's out of warranty".

As the Niagara Chrysler service manager suggested yesterday (after my mechanical inspection) I took my Magnum in to the bodyshop today for an inspection by body techs. The two techs who inspected it were shocked at the damage. I was shocked at the repair quote---$8100!! I was told the engine, drivetrain, subframe, interior had to come out in order to properly replace the rotted sections of frame alongside the cats. They were impressed by the overall clean condition of my car, very sympathetic regarding the frame problem, and suggested I contact Chrysler Canada.

The Niagara Chrysler service manager had already sent in his photos and report yesterday, and suggested I contact Chrysler Canada directly this afternoon as he had not yet heard back from the district service manager.

When I called Chrysler Canada they told me even though my car is out of warranty they would like to further investigate the problem, and opened a Case File on the car. They said I should to expect to hear back from them on Monday. I hope that is a good sign.

I guess I'll wait and see what they say on Monday and go from there. All the Chrysler service managers, techs and even the woman on the phone at Chrysler Canada were excellent.

You may get lucky. My sis got her entire frame replaced on a 10 year old Toyota Tundra. Toyota covered the entire cost. Now there was an issue with alot of them. Must have been a problem with the steel process.

Good luck with Chrysler. I hope they actually try to help you with fixing it and don't just give you a discount off a new car.

Toyota had a recall for those frames, not surprising it was replaced.

Here is an update on the serious structural defect with my 2005 Dodge Magnum RT, and how the situation has been handled thus far by Chrysler Canada. I fear this potentially dangerous situation likely affects other 2005 Chrysler LX-Platform vehicles.If you own or know someone that has a 2005 Magnum/Charger/300 please carefully inspect the frame structure alongside the catalytic converters!

The catalytic converters have burned through the factory applied protective coating on the frame structure, allowing quick formation of rust on the frame structure. I believe this defect has gone unnoticed because it is in a location that is very difficult to see. I would also like to describe how this serious structural rust perforation defect has been mishandled by Chrysler Canada. As this problem could result in wrongful death or injury, I feel it is important to share this information.

My clean Magnum RT was recently found to have developed a serious corrosion issue with the frame structure immediately adjacent to the catalytic converters, on both sides. Following an investigation by Niagara Chrysler a report was sent to the District Service Manager. Performance Collision, an authorized Chrysler body shop in St.Catharines, ON, also inspected my car and quoted over $8000 to replace the rotten frame members.

The following is a more in depth overview of the defect with my Magnum RT:

I purchased my Magnum RT this past March, certified, with 145,000km, from the original owner. The car is exceptionally clean and has never been in an accident, had any bodywork or been undercoated or modified in any way.

On Oct 16, 2014, while repairing a broken dipstick handle (which necessitated removing the dipstick tube from the right side of the engine) my mechanic was shocked to discover rust perforation of the frame structure alongside the catalytic converters. In his opinion intense heat from the catalytic converters had burned away the factory protective coating on the frame structure, allowing rust to form on the resulting bare metal. He was worried about the safety of the vehicle and advised me to talk to Chrysler right away and to get it repaired.

On Oct 21, 2014, Performance Collision (Part of Performance Chrysler) was just able to glimpse the damage from above, and scheduled me to come back for a more thorough inspection. Later that day I visited two other respected local body shops in Niagara Falls, ON. Dominion Auto Body was shocked at the rust perforation damage to the frame structure, and feared other LX-Body Chrysler cars may share the same hidden defect. The inspecting technician felt the rust perforation was caused by heat from the catalytic converters damaging the factory chassis coating. They refused to repair the vehicle, and advised me not to try to stop the rust from spreading by oil spraying or treating the area because of risk of fire.
Maple Leaf Auto Body estimated repair would take 30 to 40 hours and would require removal of the engine, transmission and exhaust to properly access the damaged area. They did not want to take on the work. They told me to talk to Chrysler right away, as this is a serious structural safety defect they felt was caused by heat from the catalytic converters damaging the protective coating on the frame structure.

On Oct 23, 2014, my car was inspected by two mechanics at Niagara Chrysler. They noted the frame drain holes were clear and were surprised by the rust perforation damage to the frame structure immediately adjacent to the catalytic converters. Service Manager was called over to see; he was concerned and promptly took photos and sent in a report to his District Service Manager. I was charged $52.50 for the inspection, and was told I would be reimbursed that amount if Chrysler would do the repairs. I was advised to call Chrysler Customer Care and have the car inspected by an approved body shop.

On Oct 24, 2014, my car was inspected at Performance Collision by two technicians. They remarked how clean and well-maintained the rest of my car is. I was told the drive train, engine cradle, interior and exhaust system would need to be removed to replace the rust damaged frame structure. They said they could imagine how a mechanic could miss the damaged area during routine service as it is very difficult area to see, especially when the exhaust system is hot. They also felt this rust problem has been growing in my car for years. They estimated $8107 to repair the damage properly and safely. Both Niagara Chrysler and Performance Collision were excellent to deal with and showed regret for the defect with my car and concern for my safety until it is properly repaired. That afternoon I filed a report with Chrysler Canada Customer Care, Case file number 25844173.

On the morning of Oct 27 2014 Chrysler Canada Customer Care called to tell me my file had been escalated. Later that day Niagara Chrysler called me to tell me the DSM was not willing to do a goodwill repair. Chrysler Canada Customer Care called shortly after, saying they had reviewed my case file and decided the defect with my car was too far outside the warranty period for them to repair. They added if the frame structure rust perforation defect was later found to be chronic among LX-body cars they would extend the warranty or issue a recall. Chronic or not, this defective condition exists in my car and I don't see how the number of similarly affected cars has any bearing on Chrysler's level of responsibility.

Regardless, on Oct 28 2014 I personally inspected five wrecked LX-body Chryslers, ranging from 2005 to 2010, at Millers Auto Recycling in Fort Erie. I found a 2005 Chrysler 300C with 216,774km that was showing similar frame rust in the same exact locations adjacent to the catalytic converters as my car, though the rust had not yet perforated the steel to the severe extent it has on my car.

I politely called Chrysler Canada Customer Care to ask for an email address where I could send my rust perforation photos and copies of the estimates to repair my car so they might better understand the problem. They refused to provide an email address for any employee of Chrysler Canada Customer Care or to any higher level of Chrysler Canada management. I was told I could send something to the Chrysler Canada Customer Care general mailbox, but I was warned they would not accept emailed files of photographs or work orders.

I then asked if the District Service Manager could be scheduled to see my car personally, at the Chrysler dealer of their choice and at their convenience, since photographs do not do the damage justice as the area is next to impossible to photograph well. Chrysler Canada Customer Care refused. I expressed my concern that other LX-Body cars may share a similar rust perforation defect with the frame structure adjacent to the catalytic converters, and that I had in fact seen and photographed a 2005 Chrysler 300C at the junkyard that was starting to show similar damage.

They very firmly told me my case is closed and Chrysler Canada Customer Care will go no further with it. I told them I simply wanted my car fixed and did not wish to cause trouble for Chrysler, but I was prepared to talk to a lawyer and to go public with the problem on Dodge and Chrysler forums and to the media. I was again firmly told my case is closed and they are sorry I feel it necessary to go that route. I asked for an email address at Chrysler Canada where I could copy them any correspondence I have with Transport Canada, the NHTSA and the media, but Chrysler Canada Customer Care refused to provide that contact information.

I am very disappointed in Chrysler for not taking my frame structure rust perforation defect seriously, or at the very least having a DSM or engineer inspect the damage to my car personally. I’m stuck with an otherwise beautiful car that has a serious structural defect which makes it impossible for me to sell or trade in good conscience. I am very concerned this defect could be affecting other Chrysler LX-body cars without their owner's knowledge. As the car is unsafe to operate I have stopped driving it until it has been repaired.

Sorry for the lengthy post, but that's where my situation stands as of now. Please check the frame structure alongside the cats on your LX-Platform cars and spread the word, because I really don't want to see anyone get hurt because of rust perforation in the frame structure of their cars!

Here are a few more pics of my car. Don't be fooled by a car with 'no rust' like I was. It is nearly impossible to see the damaged areas of the frame structure way up beside the catalytic converters without having the car on a hoist, with a cool exhaust and a strong light. During normal service you'd never even notice it. Please check your 2005 magnum/charger/300, this could be a very dangerous condition!

If it was mine. I would go and trade it in at a Chrysler dealership. If they don't already have your car and vin # listed or flagged.
I don't think any car manufacturer is going to do anything about a rotted unibody frame, on a 9 year old car.
Just my opinion... You bought a used car , without having it checked out first. I own a auto repair business, I have a lot of customers, bring used cars to me to be checked out before they buy them. I catch a lot of stuff that is rotted, because someone was getting rid of it, knowing about a problem. That is why they were selling the car, or traded it in.
I also get a lot of people that bring a car in for an auto inspection , after they purchase a car. Then I find a problem like yours, and they won't pass inspection.

I sure wish I could look at this rust in person. By looking at the pictures, its difficult to determine the exact location, the degree of actual damage, and the effect the damaged area has on the structure of the car. The reality is that given the general location of the rust being the top end of the frame rails, near the transmission tunnel/firewall junction, it likely is not location for a serious structural issue. Frame rails at that location are likely designed to assist in deflecting the motor downward in the event of a major crash. The actual effect on this purpose, if that was the intended purpose, by the amount of deterioration from the existing rust is questionable.

I suspect Chrysler chose not to do anything for 3 reasons.
1) The damage from the rust is not a safety issue.
2) You were not the original purchaser.
3) The car is a structurally sound 9, and possibly 10 year old car, with nearly 100,000 miles on it.

I also don't buy that the converters caused this problem. I suspect water that has been sitting inside the frame rails, is the cause of the rust. That water may have come from above the rails, or from inside the car.

I suspect you are not in intimate danger driving this car. Its time to own up to the fact you bought a used car with a rust issue, which may, in reality, be minor. You are left with 3 choices, 1) Fix the rust. 2) Drive it and ignore the rust. 3) Junk the car and keep whining. If you choose #3, I'll take if off your hands.
Gene

I just received this post on one of the magnum forums. It clarifys the problem with my car. Please check your LX's! Here is a copy and paste of his post.
"I was the Service and Parts Director for the past 26 years at a metro Chrysler Jeep dealership and I can tell you I have seen this issue.
> The only vehicles I have seen this on were police vehicles, which in my opinion may be more alarming!
> Police have a tough enough job without worrying if their cruiser's frame is going to fail during a high speed chase at 100 MPH or more!
> Chrysler does know about the issue and it seems to effect only vehicles that are exposed to prolonged idling.
> The cats get hot and bake the e coat off the frame rails.
> The last one that I inspected was about 2 years ago and Chrysler did offer the local police department help.
> The offer was that the was to pay $1,000.00 betterment to have the frame rails replaced.
> The police department refused to pay for the defect and auctioned the cruiser to the highest bidder.
>
> Mopar does need to take action with this and at the least inspect all LX vehicles to be sure we are safe.
>
> Toyota bought back tons of old pick up trucks for rusted out frame rails a few years ago.
> Unfortunately it is all about the $$$$$, and who holds the purse strings.
> Chrysler currently is under Fiat's control and they are much tighter with a buck than Benz ever was.
> We gained Hugh amounts of technology from the Germans and everything changed after they let us go, as a matter of fact, there would have never been an LX platform or a Gen III Hemi if it was not for Benz.
> My advise is do not give up the fight!"

One thought comes to mind, Chrysler didn't send anyone to look at it for a reason, they've already seen it elsewhere.

As for the cops auctioning off their cruiser, that is scary as all get out. Wonder if they disclosed it.

Bottom line? It was a used car, period end of subject Chrysler in reality owes you nothing. I know it sucks but your beef should be with whoever sold you the car. Sorry.

As a minimum you should contact Transport Canada and initiate a formal complaint about a potential safety issue. Structural defects affect the crashworthiness of a vehicle.
You would think that Chrysler/Fiat would learn from the huge GM ignition switch issue of not addressing potential safety defects!!

My in-laws are the original owners of a 1993 Cavalier Z24 with less than 40K miles. It lives in a heated garage and never gets driven in rain or snow, but they wash it every two weeks or so, then pull it back in the garage.

Even though the rest of the car is rust-free, there was a section of the frame that completely rotted out on both sides of the car. It required extensive fabrication / repair by my brother-in-law that would have cost thousands of dollars if a shop did it.

They came to the conclusion that the frame rot was caused by washing the car and parking it, without driving it.

I do see your point about washing the car frequently. However when my car was inspected at the Chrysler dealer they found all the frame drain holes to be clear. Also the damage is on the side of the frame rails, not the bottom where water could collect.

I bought my car from the original owner, who lived in Toronto. Anyone who knows Toronto traffic knows how congested it is. As the Chrysler service manager pointed out on the LX forum "Chrysler does know about the issue and it seems to effect only vehicles that are exposed to prolonged idling.
The cats get hot and bake the e coat off the frame rails."

Aside from the issue with my car (which I am no longer driving until it is repaired) my concern is how many magnum/charger/challenger/300 are there in big cities where they are subject to heavy traffic and prolonged periods of idling? That huge number of cars that could potentially have the same problem as my car concerns me. Remember, in five minutes of looking at the junkyard I personally found a 300 with the same issue after only looking at five cars in total! 1 in 5...what concerns me even more is Chrysler's unwillingness to address this dangerous problem publicly and have the cars owners notified to bring in their cars for an inspection. Chrysler has done so for corrosion issues with the Pacifica and Caliber, why not the LX-Platform cars?

It's unfortunate but you have a 10 year old car with a rust spot on the frame, bought used from a province known for being heavy on the winter salt.

The reality is that if everyone who had a car with the same amount of rust on it stopped driving their car, 1/2 or more of the 10 year old cars from your province would probably be taken off the road. Not to mention just about every non restored muscle or collector car.

If it was mine I would crawl under it, drop the exhaust, grind the rust off with a wire wheel, spray on some weld thru primer, make a patch, lap weld it on, primer and undercoat it and call it done. I've done this kind of repair many a time, it's perfectly structurally sound.

Or you could drive the car for the rest of it's service life, junk it and probably never have an issue because of this.

While I would also not be happy to see this kind of rust on my 2007 driver, I wouldn't expect the manufacturer to do anything about it.

I actually dropped my car off Monday morning at the shop that originally quoted $1100 to repair the frame damage. The shop, Dixons Autobody, works directly with Rose City Chrysler. Upon more detailed inspection that morning Dixons called to tell me the rust perforation damage to the frame structure adjacent to the catalytic converters was much more severe than they originally thought, and the car was unsafe to continue driving.

Dixons was honest with me about the damage and apologized for their earlier estimate; the area is difficult to see and access, and their new report jived with what Performance Chrysler Collision had told me last month.

Dixons said the frame repair would require the engine, exhaust and drivetrain removed. I was quoted $2282.60 for the frame repair and $542 for the R&R of engine and transmission, plus any towing fees to haul the shell from the garage over to the body shop and back.

I have a hard time believing there's no way to get in there enough without pulling the engine. For 2300 i hope you're getting an entire new frame put in the car! Take it to a mechanic shop where they deal with this all the time, not a body shop geared to insurance repairs.

my friend has a 80,000 mile 2006 pacifica and I noticed that her engine cradle was rusted through (holes in frame) upon my investigations this is a common problem and 2004 and 2005 had an extended warranty for this problem,BUT 2006 they don't and would not help her. She called and I called customer service,even asked for split the cost. Sorry can't help you 04/05 only. BUT it's the same part. they were nice about it.I called dealer for a quote. The price of the part is $3500 plus labor, but if the 2006 gets included in the future,we will reimburse you. spend over $4000 on a $5000 car.No way.

Thanks for all of your input.I have made a report to Transport Canada, and also sent a report to the NHTSA.

The area of the LX frame affected is in such tight confines that it is next to impossible to properly visually inspect, let alone repair, with the engine in place. Removal of the exhaust manifolds and cats would help to enable repair to the sides of the frame rails, but it would still be a really tight welding job, and in my car's case the corrosion wraps around to the top of the rails as well.

I urge LX owners, regardless of where they live, to check their cars very carefully for rust perforation and burnt paint and E coast on the frame directly adjacent to the catalytic converters. It's a question of catalytic converter heat, not salt or water, that caused the paint and ecoat to burn off the frame and allowed the rust to form. Even if you find there is no rust YET on your LX beside the catalytic converters but the frame coating looks cooked you should get that coating repaired before rust sets in!

I realize my car is 9 years old, but are we really to expect that a well cared for Chrysler with a $40+K msrp (I have the dealer invoice for my Magnum RT, it sold new to the original owner I bought the car from for $41,269 cdn) will last less than ten years before dangerous structural problems make the car undrivable?

C'mon, every car has its issues but there are all kinds of ten or 15 year old cars on the road from all manufacturers that aren't suffering major structural problems! I don't see how Chrysler could ignore this issue, an issue a Chrysler service manager posted they have been aware of for several years now, and risk that liability. At the very least they should be calling LX cars in to be inspected at a Chrysler dealer and repaired as necessary.

Something else must be happening here. Even a piece of bare metal on a var mot driven winters won't rot out like you describe.

exactly

It was explained to me by one of the body shop techs that the rust forms quickly because of the constant and severe heating and cooling cycles the frame is subject to right beside the catalytic converters.

I'll have to take a look at that area of the frame on my 2007 SRT8 when I do the exhaust swap next summer. It's not driven during the winter, but it was by the original owner for the first 3 years of it's life. Mine only have 47k miles and honestly, I've never been under the car.

Maybe it's just the pics, but it doesn't look that bad to me, definitely not enough to be a safety issue.

I wish I could take better photos to show you all, but as mentioned it is a very difficult area to see let alone get good photos. It would be easier to take photos with at least the downpipes and cats removed.

I have had my car inspected by two trusted independant garages, the local chrysler dealer, two chrysler bodyshops and two independent bodyshops. I kept getting the same shocked look on the technicians faces when once they got my car up on the hoist, brought out the big lights and really saw the extent of the damage. It was estimated that over a foot of frame material on each side of the car adjacent to the catalytic converters was severely rust perforated.

The way Chrysler Canada has brushed me off, and their refusal to acknowledge the situation by getting other LX owners to bring in their cars for inspection, has really shaken my faith. My last vehicle was a jeep TJ, my wife drives a Nitro, my inlaws drive a Caliber...in the past 15 years I have owned a Jeep Cherokee and my wife had a Turbo Daytona. Heck, even my '74 AMC Javelin has a mopar engine and drivetrain in it!

I've loved the Magnums ever since the first 'Hey man, whattaya got in that thing?' TV commercial came out. I knew I'd get one someday. But now I am regretting selling my Jeep, which I sold to my neighbor when I finally found what I thought was a nice clean Magnum RT. I should again mention the staff and management at Niagara Chrysler, Performance Chrysler's bodyshop and Dixons Bodyshop (used by Rose City Chrysler)have all been kind and professional. To a man they were visibly upset to see what happened to my car and were concerned about my safety when driving it.

I understand what you are saying. Believe me, I have owned lots of cars with rust problems over the years. But this is different. As someone quoted earlier in this post and originally over on the LX Forum

As quoted "I was the Service and Parts Director for the past 26 years at a metro Chrysler Jeep dealership and I can tell you I have seen this issue.
> The only vehicles I have seen this on were police vehicles, which in my opinion may be more alarming!
> Police have a tough enough job without worrying if their cruiser's frame is going to fail during a high speed chase at 100 MPH or more!
> Chrysler does know about the issue and it seems to effect only vehicles that are exposed to prolonged idling.
> The cats get hot and bake the e coat off the frame rails.
> The last one that I inspected was about 2 years ago and Chrysler did offer the local police department help.
> The offer was that the was to pay $1,000.00 betterment to have the frame rails replaced.
> The police department refused to pay for the defect and auctioned the cruiser to the highest bidder.
> Mopar does need to take action with this and at the least inspect all LX vehicles to be sure we are safe."

This isn't a witch hunt against Chrysler--I just want a known issue dealt with in my case, and to have Chrysler notify other LX owners to bring their cars in for inspection and repair as necessary. How many magnums/chargers/300s do you see in congested urban areas where they are subject to long periods of idling? How many of them share the same problem as my car, and the police cars the Chrysler service manager told us about? There is only one way to find out, and all it takes is a little pre-emptive action on Chryslers part.

While your frustration is understandable, I still think something else is going on here. Steel does not spontaneously rust just because it's hot. Not to the extent you describe. Especially on a car you say was not winter driven. If it did, exhausts and all kinds of other parts would be falling off cars left and right. I still believe water is collecting back there somehow. Possibly due to a design flaw.

Either way, that doesn't help you in this situation any. I just wonder how many more years you could have driven it and never noticed...