Moparts

727 Fluid- What and Why?

Posted By: KnuckleDuster

727 Fluid- What and Why? - 10/14/14 09:18 PM

Title says it, what do you run,and your reasoning?
Posted By: GY3

Re: 727 Fluid- What and Why? - 10/14/14 09:50 PM

Type F.

I've run it because that's what Mopar recommends.

Never had an issue.
Posted By: stumpy

Re: 727 Fluid- What and Why? - 10/14/14 09:52 PM

Posted By: an8sec70cuda

Re: 727 Fluid- What and Why? - 10/14/14 09:53 PM

Type F here too.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: 727 Fluid- What and Why? - 10/14/14 10:30 PM

Cheap Type F is all you will ever need
The type F has different friction coefficient than Mercon--additive pkg
It is funny how trannys can be very picky about fluid
My dad buys lots of Crown Vics with trans trouble--replaces the fluid with FORD brand and shudder issues go away like magic--replace it with correct kind different brand and Bamn same trouble--
Time and temp eat up the additives and kill fluid
Fresh Walmart Type F is all you ever need--replace it every year or more often if you have any stall
Many folks run way too loose a converter on the street and that Kills fluid fast--fresh is best and I have never seen et or shift improvment with more expensive fluid
I run Walmart F in a dragster so.....
Posted By: 3hundred

Re: 727 Fluid- What and Why? - 10/14/14 10:48 PM

Really curious about this:

"Selection of Lubricant
Use only fluids of the type labeled DEXRON Automatic
Transmission Fluid or Chrysler Automatic
Transmission, Fluid AQ-ATF-2848A, or there equivalent."

How did we get from Dexron to using type F in Chrysler products? That was a big nono when I was a mechanic. I've been using the newer +4 stuff since nothing else looked remotely similar to what I used to see. Last time I looked I couldn't even find Dexron II.

My '69 Chrysler needs transmission service soon.

Robert
Posted By: dmoore

Re: 727 Fluid- What and Why? - 10/15/14 01:41 AM

Yes...Ditto
Posted By: 383man

Re: 727 Fluid- What and Why? - 10/15/14 02:52 AM

Lots of racers use type-F because it will work very good when you have no lock-up converter and you dont have to worry about the car getting hot in the hot summer with the ac and all on. Thats where the Mopar ATF+4 works very good as its a good trans fluid and is the best to use in newer Mopars. In race cars and our hot rods without lock-converters and all the type-F works good where you dont get very hot under hood temps like newer cars and I believe it does not have the slippage friction that newer fluids have that have to work with lock-up converters. So type-F they say has less slipage and works good in the older tranny's. Myself I have a good amount of the Mopar ATF+4 since I worked at a Dodge dealer for about 24 years so thats all I use in mine and it has worked good for me. I have the Mopar ATF+4 in my sons Dart thats used it since 1997 and the fluid is still super clean as it has been changed twice since then. Course its a low milage street car and the same for my 63 as the fluid and trans look like new and the shifts are nice and firm. The ATF+4 has worked fine for me. Ron
Posted By: J_BODY

Re: 727 Fluid- What and Why? - 10/15/14 03:02 AM

pretty much what 383man said.... I work at a dealer and have access to +4 cheap. I hauled my race trans over to Pro Trans for some updates years ago and brought this topic up.... he said run the red stuff ....but did agree that +4 was a good fluid and to continue it's use.
Posted By: Chilort

Re: 727 Fluid- What and Why? - 10/15/14 03:27 AM

Type F because that's what my trans builder said to run. It works.
Posted By: Yellow Fever

Re: 727 Fluid- What and Why? - 10/15/14 04:20 AM

I always used type F then my brother in-law who has a trans shop gave me dexron with a new rebuild, ran just as good as the type F. Don't think it really matters, just don't mix em. If I got ATF+4 cheap then I'd use that.
Posted By: mopowers

Re: 727 Fluid- What and Why? - 10/15/14 03:56 PM

Quote:

Don't think it really matters, just don't mix em.




Why is mixing them a bad idea?
Posted By: John_Kunkel

Re: 727 Fluid- What and Why? - 10/15/14 08:07 PM


No problem mixing fluids, my personal mix is a 50/50 blend of Dexron and Type F.
Posted By: 3hundred

Re: 727 Fluid- What and Why? - 10/15/14 08:19 PM

Quote:


No problem mixing fluids, my personal mix is a 50/50 blend of Dexron and Type F.




From what you guys have posted and some other stuff I've read, you want to be sure to pour in the red stuff in your older non lockup GM and Chrysler transmissions.

I think I'm going to go with 7176+4 when I do my Chrysler fluid change. Just because.

Robert
Posted By: HotRodDave

Re: 727 Fluid- What and Why? - 10/15/14 09:01 PM

I use type F to protect the clutches, they are the most common failure I see by a long shot, bearings and gears not so much. The type F allows the clutches to live longer, +4 is to make soft shifts and protect bearings and gears. In reality the difference is barely noticable from type F to +4. All the dex merc stuff seems to be somewhere in the middle and you should have no issues mixing them.
Posted By: 3hundred

Re: 727 Fluid- What and Why? - 10/15/14 09:07 PM

My Chrysler has the original 1969 transmission, less than 60,000 miles. I know I had it changed at ~ 52,000 miles but it's been about 10 years now and the gasket is leaking again. What do you think would be best for my situation? We don't drive it hard at all and almost no highway driving.

Robert
Posted By: stumpy

Re: 727 Fluid- What and Why? - 10/15/14 09:32 PM

Type F.
Posted By: Rob C

Re: 727 Fluid- What and Why? - 10/15/14 09:42 PM

ATF+4
Posted By: 3hundred

Re: 727 Fluid- What and Why? - 10/15/14 09:50 PM

Quote:


Type F.
ATF+4




LOL

I remember reading, long ago that B&M trick shift was basically just colored type F with the price tripled. It was advertised to firm up shifts. I'm thinking less slippage would be good for the longevity of my antique transmission, even if the difference is minimal. I know the advantage of synthetics, this car meets none of the criteria even if my personal preference is to stick with a Chrysler fluid product. And I may yet.

Robert
Posted By: John_Kunkel

Re: 727 Fluid- What and Why? - 10/15/14 10:54 PM


ATF+4 is formulated for transmissions with lockup converters and overdrive gears that run constantly...not features that you find in the majority of performance 727's.

Although Mopar says it is backwards compatible with previous fluids and recommends it for older 727's they do that mostly to be able to stock just one fluid in their service/parts departments rather than 3 or 4.
Posted By: Mattax

Re: 727 Fluid- What and Why? - 10/16/14 03:00 AM

For torqueflite 727 and 9XX transmisions, Chrysler changed recommendations as fluid improved.
About 2/3 way down in this 2002 Motor Magazine article they summarize the differences in ATF up to 2002.

Type F has the opposite characteristics than most of the other fluids. Many racers have used it in torqueflites for that reason.

My conclusions that the 'best' claims to backword compatible ATF for a plain 'A' or 'Dexron' spec'd torqueflite are:
Dexron VI (synthetic and generally most expensive)
Synthetic Dexron spec'd as Dex III replacement
Dexron/Mercon (least expensive)
Multi-purpose (usually least expensive, but IMO these are a crap shoot on compatibility)

The newer ATFs usually have better oxidation resistance and low temperature viscosity. Whatever you buy, check the can (uh bottle) or the manufacturer that its compatible with Dex II or earlier.

Warning: Some bottles say compatible with all Chrysler transmissions. This is a bad sign. The needs of all Chrysler transmissions are not the same. Many do not take Dex III and earlier. There are long articles on this (go to Allpar.com for an example). As stated by others, the big change in Chrysler ATF seems to be when ATF+3 and +4 were developed specificly for the new transmissions with control modules.

Another moparts thread on Dexron and Type F characteristics In it, an oil dealer posts some of the viscosity specs for Dex VI, Dex III, and F synthetics in his product line. Note that this specs, especially for Dex III and Type F may not be the same as other brands, but it is a good way to see one way these ATFs are different.

edit corrected link
Posted By: moparx

Re: 727 Fluid- What and Why? - 10/16/14 03:04 AM

Quote:


ATF+4 is formulated for transmissions with lockup converters and overdrive gears that run constantly...not features that you find in the majority of performance 727's.

Although Mopar says it is backwards compatible with previous fluids and recommends it for older 727's they do that mostly to be able to stock just one fluid in their service/parts departments rather than 3 or 4.



and just to add more confusion to this topic, i ran dexron in my 95 caravan, which speced the +4 to 308k without a trans failure, and i have almost 200k on my 2000 caravan with a mix of +4 and dexron. still on the original trans. dumb luck or ??????
Posted By: poorboy

Re: 727 Fluid- What and Why? - 10/16/14 03:15 AM

All I can tell you is that many years back I had an old beat up Mopar wagon with a 383, 727. The trans started slipping between gears when it shifted. I was using the old wagon to pull the dirt tract car to the track, and it was racing season, no time to fix the hauler! So like a good boy, I dropped the pan, scrapped all the "stuff" out of the pan, changed the filter and added the Dextron fluid. The slip was still there. My friend that worked on transmissions suggested I try the Ford fluid, so I dropped the pan, replaced the filter again, and filled it up with the Ford fluid. The trans quit slipping, and we got another year out of it pulling the race car before something else went out in the old wagon. Without a doubt, the Ford fluid helps the clutch linings.
I've used Ford fluid in all my non-OD transmissions since. The newer OD stuff gets the ATF+4. Gene
Posted By: KnuckleDuster

Re: 727 Fluid- What and Why? - 10/16/14 03:44 AM

Great debate! I have always run Type F, but got a new Turbo Action converter and it listed +4 as the first choice and Type F as the second. I filled the converter with F upon install,but haven't filled the trans yet...thought I'd ask and see what I don't know about ATF.
Posted By: Mattax

Re: 727 Fluid- What and Why? - 10/16/14 01:40 PM

Quote:

dumb luck or ??????



I suspect just good luck, not dumb luck. My guess is that Chrysler just decided not to roll the dice on their dime.
The way I read the Motor Magazine article, Chrysler developed the "plus" ATFs at roughly the same time GM was developing Dexron III. There might have been similar modifications to deal with the possible "shudder" issues. Whether for engineering or marketing reasons, or a little of both Chrysler decided to stick with their spec'd ATF.
Posted By: max_maniac

Re: 727 Fluid- What and Why? - 10/16/14 03:35 PM

I had a fellow that did my trans work a while back tell me just use red fluid!!! Just go buy the cheapest red fluid you can find and run it. Did that and never had a problem so
Posted By: sleddinfool

Re: 727 Fluid- What and Why? - 10/17/14 04:00 AM

I just got my trans done.. Trans guy said to use type f... Convertor I bought tci? said to use red fluid/. I bought the f. Kevin
Posted By: RSNOMO

Re: 727 Fluid- What and Why? - 10/17/14 04:30 AM

Quote:

I just got my trans done.. Trans guy said to use type f... Convertor I bought tci? said to use red fluid/. I bought the f. Kevin




Kev...

You'll be OK...


'71 X's like Type F...

Been using it, trouble-free, for 20+ years...

Nice, firm shifts...

Nice, clean trans pan...
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