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How much more pwr will a hotter cam shaft give me?
Posted By: NOrrTH
How much more pwr will a hotter cam shaft give me? - 09/16/14 11:59 PM
Eddy 800 AVS
CH4B (to fit under the Air Grabber)
30 over 440, 10:1
Stealth heads
Comp Cam 21-223-4 .477 268 Dur
TTi 1 7/8 into 2.5"
stock torque converter
3:55
It goes good, lots of torque, but doesn't set the world on fire with approximately 450hp. It spins the wheels easy so I don't think a high stall converter will make it pull harder...unless I'm mistaken.
I'm limited to the intake manifold due to height restriction with the Air Grabber (gotta keep the motor stock looking)
So, how much more power could I get with a hotter cam? More than 50hp? If not I'm not going to bother.
Thanks
Posted By: Sport440
Re: How much more pwr will a hotter cam shaft give me? - 09/17/14 03:12 AM
Your current intake will hold the HP back from what it could be. You could get 50 HP with a hotter cam, but it would be Worthless with your stock vert. You would have no power below 4000 RPM.
You cant go much bigger on the cam without changing the vert.
Define your ability to spin? Can you break them loose @ 40 MPH?
Or just break them loose from a near stop and then spin them at will. Once they are broke loose you don't need much power to spin them off the line.
Breaking them loose at a rolling MPH is different.
Posted By: gch
Re: How much more pwr will a hotter cam shaft give me? - 09/17/14 03:14 AM
Leave it alone.Doubt you will find 50hp in any cam.Look at other areas such as exhaust,ignition,or porting the heads for extra power.
A stall converter will help it accelerate a lot quicker provided you have traction.
Posted By: ahy
Re: How much more pwr will a hotter cam shaft give me? - 09/17/14 03:35 AM
It sounds like you have a strong well matched setup as is. More cam will will give it more top end and more "personality" (rough idle, fuel smell at idle, less lower end torque). Without other changes, as posted above, maybe not more performance. Suggest you enjoy as is unless you want to make a number of other changes besides cam.
Posted By: RUNCHARGER
Re: How much more pwr will a hotter cam shaft give me? - 09/17/14 04:01 AM
A good torque convertor will help way more and not be a PITA.
Sheldon
Posted By: RapidRobert
Re: How much more pwr will a hotter cam shaft give me? - 09/17/14 04:16 AM
OT I'd suggest dialing in the A/F ratio and dist subsystems
Posted By: Kern Dog
Re: How much more pwr will a hotter cam shaft give me? - 09/17/14 06:03 AM
50 HP from just a cam swap is possible, but it will cost you. A solid roller setup will take a $1500 bite out of your wallet but will gain you that 50 HP.
An alternative is a bigger, nice flat tappet hydraulic and a switch to a Holley Street Dominator intake. They are fairly low profile but deliver great performance. As mentioned, get the Air/Fuel in tune along with a good ignition system and you'll easily gain 50 HP.
One final option: Axle gearing. A switch to a 3.91 or 4.10 will make it feel like you gained HP but the tradeoff is a mpg loss.
Posted By: PorkyPig
Re: How much more pwr will a hotter cam shaft give me? - 09/17/14 05:29 PM
Cam swap will get you 10-15 hp. Fifty hp from a cam swap is a pipe dream, unless something else about the present combination is just totally screwed up. No cam no the planet is going to get you 50 hp with what you have now.
Switching to a higher stall converter is only an improvement if your car doesn't respond by just spinning the tires more, rather than actually accelerating faster. If you don't have the grip to handle the higher launch rpm, it can slow down.
Porting heads could get you 30-50 hp, depending on what's done to make the work match the rest of your combination. That gets my vote.
Posted By: dogdays
Re: How much more pwr will a hotter cam shaft give me? - 09/17/14 08:12 PM
Porting and keep your other stuff the same.
Modern Cylinder Head has a good program for Stealth heads.
Also spend some time on a chassis dyno and get the tuneup right. There may actually be 50hp in the tuneup.
R.
Posted By: NOrrTH
Re: How much more pwr will a hotter cam shaft give me? - 09/17/14 08:46 PM
Fantastic information. Thanks guys!
Posted By: Mr.Yuck
Re: How much more pwr will a hotter cam shaft give me? - 09/17/14 10:26 PM
While I don't think the intake is holding you back as much the convert and gear are. Anything biger would require a stall and a taller gear otherwise it might be a pig out of the hole. You could add 1.6 roller rockers that would add some lift. A 4 hole 1/2" spacer might help as well if you have room.
Posted By: Kern Dog
Re: How much more pwr will a hotter cam shaft give me? - 09/18/14 03:05 AM
"Cam swap will get you 10-15 hp. Fifty hp from a cam swap is a pipe dream"
Porky has a right to his opinion, but....... The only people that think like him are those that run mild cams and never exceed 4500 rpms. Thats fine for them.
Look at any magazine article where they take a stock rebuilt 383, 440 or even a 340 and look at the results. The biggest gains are almost always after they switch to a bigger cam. Pathetic results like a 10-15 HP gain from a cam swap would be a huge waste of time for the expense. You'd get 10 HP just by switching to 0w20 synthetic oil.
Posted By: PorkyPig
Re: How much more pwr will a hotter cam shaft give me? - 09/18/14 04:41 AM
Quote:
"Cam swap will get you 10-15 hp. Fifty hp from a cam swap is a pipe dream"
Porky has a right to his opinion, but....... The only people that think like him are those that run mild cams and never exceed 4500 rpms. Thats fine for them.
Please, tell me how fast your street car is, how big your cam is, and what RPM you shift and turn throgh the traps.
I suspect you have no idea what I think or how I build my car.
Posted By: BSB67
Re: How much more pwr will a hotter cam shaft give me? - 09/18/14 04:57 AM
How would you know? What evidence do you have that you have 450 hp now?
I'm with Porky and dogday. You could probably find 30 hp in the tune
Posted By: scatpacktom
Re: How much more pwr will a hotter cam shaft give me? - 09/18/14 02:00 PM
I understand why you run the ch4b but it really isn't a good manifold. They are very low with sharp corners. If you want to close in on that 50hp a fine tuned six pack will get you part of the way there. You wouldn't have Air Grabber issues with it.
Posted By: GTX MATT
Re: How much more pwr will a hotter cam shaft give me? - 09/18/14 04:37 PM
A 50 horsepower gain would take some better intake setup and at least 245 degrees of duration, I.E. a big jump in cam size and 10-12 inches of idle vacuum. CNC ported heads will probably net you half of that if you prefer to not give up any street manners. I would agree that I don't think you will find 50 usable horsepower out of any cam without other changes.
Do you want more horsepower or do you want the car to go faster? As the others said there is probably alot in your tune up.
Posted By: dustergirl340
Re: How much more pwr will a hotter cam shaft give me? *DELETED* - 09/18/14 05:07 PM
Quote:
A good torque convertor will help way more and not be a PITA.
Sheldon
Agreed...people always seem to overlook the converter. Good ones aren't cheap, but they are worth it in an automatic car.
Posted By: dogdays
Re: How much more pwr will a hotter cam shaft give me? - 09/18/14 06:33 PM
FD, of course you can get 50 hp from a cam swap from factory stocker to better cam, but he's already done that. He's running a Comp XE268, which has 224/230 @ 50 with 110LSA. This is a proven street cam which should be good for 1hp/cubic inch with decent heads.
Gaining ANOTHER 50hp from a cam swap will put him out of the streetable range, PP is right. Power band will start at 3500rpm, the car will be an absolute dog around town.
R.
Posted By: NOrrTH
Re: How much more pwr will a hotter cam shaft give me? - 09/18/14 10:07 PM
The machine shop that built the motor said they designed it to be 1hp/ci and be a great torquey street motor to work with my set up (stock vert, 3.55s) I believe they achieved that.
However, I wanted something more radical and said how about a stroker? They said you don't need that, don't want to do that to your numbers motor and you should be happy with a torquey 440.
I should be happy but I'd like another 100hp plus at least the torque I already have. It sounds like I'd have to go to heroic efforts to do that though (512ci, convert and 3.91's). I want it to pull HARD. Right now it just pulls quite good.
The idea of the six pack has been on my mind. That, a cam, vert and 3.91s should make the car snapier
Posted By: Mr.Yuck
Re: How much more pwr will a hotter cam shaft give me? - 09/19/14 01:14 PM
Quote:
The machine shop that built the motor said they designed it to be 1hp/ci and be a great torquey street motor to work with my set up (stock vert, 3.55s) I believe they achieved that.
However, I wanted something more radical and said how about a stroker? They said you don't need that, don't want to do that to your numbers motor and you should be happy with a torquey 440.
I should be happy but I'd like another 100hp plus at least the torque I already have. It sounds like I'd have to go to heroic efforts to do that though (512ci, convert and 3.91's). I want it to pull HARD. Right now it just pulls quite good.
The idea of the six pack has been on my mind. That, a cam, vert and 3.91s should make the car snapier
I'm running a Turbo action 3800 and 3.91's w/ my six pack. Swaping converters, gears and intake/carbs isn't an easy or quick task. Not to mention cost. I have less motor and I can tell you this car is not a ton of fun on the street. Runs and drives nice but it explodes the tires (even the ET Pros) without much effort.
Posted By: NOrrTH
Re: How much more pwr will a hotter cam shaft give me? - 09/19/14 08:41 PM
Quote:
I'm running a Turbo action 3800 and 3.91's w/ my six pack. Swaping converters, gears and intake/carbs isn't an easy or quick task. Not to mention cost. I have less motor and I can tell you this car is not a ton of fun on the street. Runs and drives nice but it explodes the tires (even the ET Pros) without much effort.
Other than the hi revs on the highway, whats the "not a ton of fun" part? Isn't exploding the tires what its all about?
Would you be happier with my setup but with a 512?
Posted By: Kern Dog
Re: How much more pwr will a hotter cam shaft give me? - 09/19/14 11:52 PM
Mr Yuck: Your master cylinder is dry.
Posted By: dvw
Re: How much more pwr will a hotter cam shaft give me? - 09/20/14 03:06 PM
I would suggest looking for a Holley Street Dominator intake. It's a proven piece and not overly tall. Even better modify the lower air grabber pan to raise the carb up into the air cleaner housing. That is a small cam, good but small. The converter, compression, gear, and cam need to work as one unit. Change one, and you may need to change them all. Guys are running Pure Stock on not much more cam than this going high 11's. Present combo with Street Dominator, ported heads, and a hydraulic roller will wake it up. How much do you want to spend? My 9-1,hyd roller,LD340 intake, 650 carb, factory head 360" Challenger will run easy 12's with a 3.55.
Doug