833 tranny fluid

833 tranny fluid - 02/11/14 12:34 AM

Anyone have any recommendations as to the type of lube to use in my 4 speed tranny? We've heard some say synthetic and others not. Any opinions?

Posted By: 68dartgreg

Re: 833 tranny fluid - 02/11/14 12:42 AM

standard 80w-90 works well. using synthetic oil is to slippery for synchro rings. you need some resistance for them to work properly.

Posted By: b54406barrel

Re: 833 tranny fluid - 02/11/14 12:45 AM

I only had 3 different, 4spd mopars but they all had atf in them.

Posted By: peabodyracing

Re: 833 tranny fluid - 02/11/14 01:33 AM

I've gotten sucked into this debate before. General opinion was they should use ATF. I've always (since the mid 70's) used 80W90 gear oil. Have never had a problem with it, even in cold weather driving, which is where I think the ATF discussion originated from. Purely my own opinion and experience.

Posted By: fastmark

Re: 833 tranny fluid - 02/11/14 01:40 AM

My uncle worked at a transmission shop in the day and he said that even though mopar recommended ATF for an 833 that would not shift well, it came back to bite them. He rebuild many that had high wear problems from running ATF. I've never had problems with regular 80w-90 weight gear oil.

Posted By: John_Kunkel

Re: 833 tranny fluid - 02/11/14 01:41 AM

Quote:

using synthetic oil is to slippery for synchro rings. you need some resistance for them to work properly.

Myth. You merely need to choose a synthetic that's synchro friendly....I prefer Red Line 75W-90NS; works great in the 833.

Posted By: DAYCLONA

Re: 833 tranny fluid - 02/11/14 01:48 AM

Quote:

Anyone have any recommendations as to the type of lube to use in my 4 speed tranny? We've heard some say synthetic and others not. Any opinions?

80w-90...end of story IMHO

Posted By: VL21

Re: 833 tranny fluid - 02/11/14 02:00 AM

Waaay back when, I had a '66 Formula S, 4spd. Lived in Vermont.

In the cold of the first winter I had it (used) I would go out to start it and let it warm up.

Push clutch, start engine. Let clutch out, it would stall the engine. Had to rev it up, ease out the clutch.

I checked around, then drained it and put dexron in. End of problem.

I "believe" all the other four speeders that I had were factory filled with dexron.

The 4 gear in my VL21 will have 80/90 if it ever gets on the road, now that I live in Fla.

Posted By: ThermoQuad

Re: 833 tranny fluid - 02/11/14 02:00 AM

Call Jamie Passon- Passon Performance - you know the 4 and 5 speed guy. He has his own proprietary transmission lubricant for mopar 4 speeds. There is a significant difference between his lubricant and the off the shelf products that many will recommend. btw I torture tested the Passon product and the OFTPs and his by far performed the best.

Posted By: b54406barrel

Re: 833 tranny fluid - 02/11/14 02:01 AM

Mostly being a muncie & toploader guy, atf was a surprise to me when I pulled my first one in '71. I talked to the dodge shop foreman & he told me anything else voided the warranty.

Guess that's not really an issue anymore........

Posted By: 68LAR

Re: 833 tranny fluid - 02/11/14 06:39 AM

I'm the original owner of my car. I've used nothing but ATF in it for 99% of the time. I've tried other stuff, but always went back to Dexron ATF. It works for me, your results may vary.

Posted By: therocks

Re: 833 tranny fluid - 02/11/14 02:33 PM

My 65 uses 80w 90.Has since new.Every one Ive had had the same.Ive had my 65 since 69.Drove it in the winter for years and never a problem.Rocky

Posted By: Cuda340

Re: 833 tranny fluid - 02/11/14 03:41 PM

Quote:

My 65 uses 80w 90.Has since new.Every one Ive had had the same.Ive had my 65 since 69.Drove it in the winter for years and never a problem.Rocky

I fully agree with the 80w-90. Also make sure it is GL-4 Rated NOT GL-5. GL-5 has too many friction modifiers in it and will not let the syncro grab the hub enough to slow the gear down. GL-5 is made for rear ends.

Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: 833 tranny fluid - 02/11/14 06:41 PM

Mopar sent the 4 speed cars out from the factory with both gear oil,80-90 wt. and ATF

The deciding factor was where the cars where being sent to be sold, if it was to a dealer who lived in cold country it got ATF, if not cold country they got gear oil. I went to several of the old Mopar drag seminars, they always recommended using ATF in the NP 833 regardless if drag race only or road racing

I've used ATF in all my 833 since 1976

Posted By: RealWing

Re: 833 tranny fluid - 02/11/14 10:50 PM

Quote:

Call Jamie Passon- Passon Performance - you know the 4 and 5 speed guy. He has his own proprietary transmission lubricant for mopar 4 speeds. There is a significant difference between his lubricant and the off the shelf products that many will recommend. btw I torture tested the Passon product and the OFTPs and his by far performed the best.

For Jamie Passon's new 5 speed tranny, he recommends Lucas Synthetic 75W90. I believe all his testing was done using this lube.
https://www.lucasoil.com/images/medialibrary/TDS10047_Syn-75W-90-GearOil.pdf

Posted By: JohnRR

Re: 833 tranny fluid - 02/12/14 12:44 AM

I've rebuilt a few 833's that i could clearly tell were ATF , and parted a number of the OD 833's that definitely had ATF , they all had wear on the cluster pins where the roller bearing rode.

Posted By: Supercuda

Re: 833 tranny fluid - 02/12/14 01:38 AM

80w90

Posted By: DaveRS23

Re: 833 tranny fluid - 02/12/14 01:41 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Call Jamie Passon- Passon Performance - you know the 4 and 5 speed guy. He has his own proprietary transmission lubricant for mopar 4 speeds. There is a significant difference between his lubricant and the off the shelf products that many will recommend. btw I torture tested the Passon product and the OFTPs and his by far performed the best.

For Jamie Passon's new 5 speed tranny, he recommends Lucas Synthetic 75W90. I believe all his testing was done using this lube.
https://www.lucasoil.com/images/medialibrary/TDS10047_Syn-75W-90-GearOil.pdf

So does he still recommend his lube for our older 833s and 833ODs? The syn 75w90 is also recommended for Sure-Grips, which flies in the face of most recommendations for the 833.

This is getting a little bit complicated.

Could we just mix gear oil and ATF half and half as a compromise for our 833s?

Posted By: mopar346

Re: 833 tranny fluid - 02/12/14 03:25 AM

In this thread I have read the downside or possible downside to ATF and Synthetics, so why chance it? No one has mentioned a downside to 80w90 except maybe the cold weather. I have always used gear oil but I cant say I have had any with original fluid and of course most if not all have been from down here.

Posted By: 66HEMICORONET

Re: 833 tranny fluid - 02/12/14 03:54 AM

I agree with you 100%. Since the car will never be driven in cold weather there should be no problems if I use 80w90.

Posted By: Pacnorthcuda

Re: 833 tranny fluid - 02/12/14 04:21 AM

Quote:

In this thread I have read the downside or possible downside to ATF and Synthetics, so why chance it? No one has mentioned a downside to 80w90 except maybe the cold weather. I have always used gear oil but I cant say I have had any with original fluid and of course most if not all have been from down here.

Ok...you're asking for the downside, I will provide it. 80w90 is fine.....IF its a GL-4, not GL-5 lube, and 95% of the 80w90's available ARE GL-5's.

GL-5 has extreme pressure additives in it, highly desireable in a rear end (ring and pinion). The problem is these additives are not long term compatible with the brass synchros in our 833's.

That's the downside, but many people do use it.

Posted By: mopar346

Re: 833 tranny fluid - 02/12/14 04:53 AM

Since I haven't looked at the GL-4/5 factor is Gl-4 readily available? How about farm use? I've run gear oil in manuals with brass for years with no known issues, of course I am not running them 20k a year either and cant say I have more than 40k on any of them in many years of use.

Posted By: DAYCLONA

Re: 833 tranny fluid - 02/12/14 05:04 AM

Quote:

is Gl-4 readily available?

Brad Penn
Penn Grade
Pennsoil Gear Plus
Amsoil
Valvoline

All offer 80w-90 in GL-4 grade

Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: 833 tranny fluid - 02/12/14 06:03 AM

The downside to the early first generation NP833 with the OEM synchors was hard shifting, cold weather or not. ATF help alleviate the hard shifting problems

The third generation synchors, 1971 and later versions, help a bunch also

I have replaced the early syncho asemblys with the later version along with the steel shifting forks for several customers

You can to

There are three differrent versions of the NP stock synchro assemblys I've seen, 1964 to 1966, 1967 to 1970 and 1971 and later

Two different side covers and two different versions of shifting forks also in those

Posted By: 69hemibeep

Re: 833 tranny fluid - 02/12/14 03:36 PM

Service manual calls for ATF or Multi Purpose gear lube so pick your poison depending on climate

Posted By: dustergirl340

Re: 833 tranny fluid - 02/12/14 04:09 PM

Quote:

80w-90...end of story IMHO

X2. I drive my Dart until they salt the roads and it's been driven in some pretty cold weather...no problems at all.

Posted By: John_Kunkel

Re: 833 tranny fluid - 02/12/14 10:28 PM

Quote:

In this thread I have read the downside or possible downside to ATF and Synthetics, so why chance it?

What you have read here is opinion and conjecture.

Quote:

No one has mentioned a downside to 80w90 except maybe the cold weather.

The weather doesn't have to be all that cold to cause notchy shifting in the 833, the 833 has always had clunky shifting when compared to a T-10 or Muncie. I say give it all the help you can.

Posted By: RSNOMO

Re: 833 tranny fluid - 02/12/14 10:35 PM

First time I saw ATF in a manual trans was a 1980 Dodge Aspen...

It came out...

Viscosity...

Windage...

I'll keep gear oil in my gear-driven trans'...

Posted By: Supercuda

Re: 833 tranny fluid - 02/13/14 01:15 AM

Clunky shifting?

Not in my experience, but then again my nick name is not spaghetti arms.

Wait, even my daughter who's nickname is spaghetti arms had no problem shifting an A833, with gear oil in it.

Must be you.

Posted By: John_Kunkel

Re: 833 tranny fluid - 02/13/14 01:21 AM

Ever driven a T-10? Muncie?

Posted By: Pacnorthcuda

Re: 833 tranny fluid - 02/13/14 01:29 AM

I use Redline MTL ("manual transmission lube") in my 18 spline and I love the notchieness. I can feel the gears meshing really well. With out that feeling I would describe a tranny shift feeling as "vague". I'll take notchy over vague any time.

Posted By: GTX MATT

Re: 833 tranny fluid - 02/13/14 01:53 AM

Quote:

Ever driven a T-10? Muncie?

Yeah they shift like nothing is there after a few clutch dumps and powershifts

Posted By: goldduster318

Re: 833 tranny fluid - 02/13/14 02:36 AM

They have gallon jugs of Sta-Lube 85w-90 GL4 at napa for a really reasonable price. that's what I use and it works great.

Posted By: Supercuda

Re: 833 tranny fluid - 02/13/14 05:12 AM

Quote:

Ever driven a T-10? Muncie?

Yes, and a toploader and a T5 and a A435 and numerous other manual transmissions, foreign and domestic, even ones you have to double clutch.

Question is, have you ever driven a fresh A833 with a new shifter? When I converted my 87 Diplomat over to stick I rebuilt the trans, rebuilt the clutch linkages, put a Holley pitpack on my new Holley Indy shifter, pulled the Indy apart, polished the lever, cleaned and lubed it and reassembled it. Adjusted the shift and clutch linkages and it was sweet.

Posted By: John_Kunkel

Re: 833 tranny fluid - 02/13/14 08:17 PM

Ever wonder why Chrysler developed the "slick shift" modification for the 833?

Posted By: dan9

Re: 833 tranny fluid - 02/13/14 08:48 PM

I bought mine from Passon's last year. He told me to run 80/90w non-synthetic.

Posted By: GTX MATT

Re: 833 tranny fluid - 02/13/14 08:53 PM

Hmmmm, I put 85W 140 in mine. A buddy told me thats what hes put in his 833s since he bought his '67 GTX brand new. I haven't driven mine yet but you can absolutely rip powershifts with his 833

Posted By: HPMike

Re: 833 tranny fluid - 02/13/14 08:55 PM

Quote:

Ever driven a T-10? Muncie?

Agreed....

Even an absolutely PERFECT 833 with all new parts isnt going to be "sweet shifting"..Not in the same way a Muncie or T10 is..Those trannies are as fragile as fine China, though...

The 833 is essentially a truck unit used in car applications...Its VERY strong, but its very heavy, and not meant to be powershifted. And yes, Chrysler knew this very early on, hence the "slick shift" crash boxes..

Use standard 90wt gear oil in most applications...Ive used Sychromesh in race units-but those arent meant for the long haul....I also do NOT recommend synthetic 90 wt...

MB

Posted By: dan9

Re: 833 tranny fluid - 02/13/14 09:08 PM

Since I asked Jamie's advice i will respect his opinion. That gear oil you are using will probably be fine. Since we don't drive them everyday in the winter like we used to. That first shift on a cold morning with a super cold Hurst t-handle was interesting. It got better with the felt covered t-handles.

Posted By: SomeCarGuy

Re: 833 tranny fluid - 02/13/14 09:10 PM

Quote:

Hmmmm, I put 85W 140 in mine. A buddy told me thats what hes put in his 833s since he bought his '67 GTX brand new. I haven't driven mine yet but you can absolutely rip powershifts with his 833

85W-140 is fine, but it's a crutch for a worn box IMO. A worn 833 will not agree with syn or lighter weight fluids. I drove an NP435 quite a bit with Redline MTF. It shifted well, but did find the weak seals for me.

Posted By: DAYCLONA

Re: 833 tranny fluid - 02/13/14 11:35 PM

Quote:

Anyone have any recommendations as to the type of lube to use in my 4 speed tranny? We've heard some say synthetic and others not. Any opinions?

IMHO, if your 4spd had ATF in it, run it with that if you so desire, if it had gear oil (80w-90) run that, personally over the last 30 years I've always run gear oil in my Mopar 4spds I've seen too many guys over the years that say "The FSM says ATF", and they switch out the gear oil, and find that one or more several things happen, the tranny craps out big time, or it leaks like a sieve with the ATF, or it shifts like crap....so after you cut thru the "mustard" of this thread, and pic your poison, report back with your opinion

Mike

Posted By: ademon

Re: 833 tranny fluid - 02/14/14 01:01 AM

Quote:

I bought mine from Passon's last year. He told me to run 80/90w non-synthetic.

he told
You to run any 80/90? Does he not sell his fluid any more? I run his and it's about the weight of 5/30w

Posted By: Ron_M

Re: 833 tranny fluid - 02/14/14 01:02 AM

Quote:

Call Jamie Passon- Passon Performance - you know the 4 and 5 speed guy. He has his own proprietary transmission lubricant for mopar 4 speeds. There is a significant difference between his lubricant and the off the shelf products that many will recommend. btw I torture tested the Passon product and the OFTPs and his by far performed the best.

Posted By: Supercuda

Re: 833 tranny fluid - 02/14/14 02:27 AM

Quote:

Ever wonder why Chrysler developed the "slick shift" modification for the 833?

Yeah, so lesser mortals could try to keep up with Ronnie Sox.

NOT FOR STREET USE.

Posted By: GTX MATT

Re: 833 tranny fluid - 02/14/14 05:03 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Ever wonder why Chrysler developed the "slick shift" modification for the 833?

Yeah, so lesser mortals could try to keep up with Ronnie Sox.

NOT FOR STREET USE.

I always thought 833s powershifted nice

Posted By: dan9

Re: 833 tranny fluid - 02/14/14 04:48 PM

Yes that is what he said. Any 80/90w non-synthetic. He did not try to sell me his or even mention that he had his own type.

Posted By: HPMike

Re: 833 tranny fluid - 02/14/14 06:43 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Ever wonder why Chrysler developed the "slick shift" modification for the 833?

Yeah, so lesser mortals could try to keep up with Ronnie Sox.

NOT FOR STREET USE.

Here is a little secret...

Sox ran a Toploader in a lot of those cars...

Posted By: ademon

Re: 833 tranny fluid - 02/14/14 07:02 PM

Quote:

Yes that is what he said. Any 80/90w non-synthetic. He did not try to sell me his or even mention that he had his own type.

OK thanks maybe ill go with the Red line MTL next

Posted By: GTX MATT

Re: 833 tranny fluid - 02/14/14 07:06 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Ever wonder why Chrysler developed the "slick shift" modification for the 833?

Yeah, so lesser mortals could try to keep up with Ronnie Sox.

NOT FOR STREET USE.

Here is a little secret...

Sox ran a Toploader in a lot of those cars...

MB

Not in class racing.