Moparts
Alternator upgrade...and wiring modifacation
Posted By: GLR
Alternator upgrade...and wiring modifacation - 01/30/14 02:36 PM
Hello, I have been collecting parts and pieces for an up and coming restoration and want to up grade the electrical system. The car is a 1971 Charger 500 with a 383 with factory A/C and power windows and I am adding cruise to make a nice trip car out of. I want to up grade the alternator and wiring to at least a 100 amp or maybe more if anyone thinks I will need more??? Then I want to use a Volt gauge instead of using the Amp gauge and I need information how to eliminate all the amperage going inside the car.
Thank you...........
Posted By: Curt
Re: Alternator upgrade...and wiring modifacation - 01/30/14 03:15 PM
Posted By: GLR
Re: Alternator upgrade...and wiring modifacation - 01/30/14 03:20 PM
Thank you for the wiring information...
Posted By: Andrewh
Re: Alternator upgrade...and wiring modifacation - 01/30/14 03:35 PM
100 amps might be a bit overkill depending on what additonal accessories you plan on running.
when you say restoration, do you mean that, where everything should look stock?
or resto mod, where as long as it is close you are happy?
because those things make a difference in how much you can upgrade.
the mad bypass "looks" fairly stock, but higher than 100 amp alts don't really look stock.
78 amps is the highest "stock" square back you can get from a parts store with life time warranties.
there are kits and powermaster alts that go to 100 amps ish for the square and round backs.
then there are the later denso alts from toyota's and pre magnum trucks.
but really unless you are running electric fan's, fuel pump and a few other things that are high amp draw's do you really need it?
what are you trying to fix?
Posted By: Jerry
Re: Alternator upgrade...and wiring modifacation - 01/30/14 03:38 PM
see the attachment. for 100 amps all you need to do is run a supplemental wire from the back of the alternator to the starter relay. this way the current will bypass the bulkhead and go right to the battery. that's the simple explanation.
Posted By: GLR
Re: Alternator upgrade...and wiring modifacation - 01/30/14 03:41 PM
Well, other that what I have already mentioned I will have an electric fuel pump..I think I will use my stock fan clutch with factory 7 blade fan but I did think about an electric fan.....I am not 100% sure on the fan yet.
Posted By: Jerry
Re: Alternator upgrade...and wiring modifacation - 01/30/14 03:45 PM
if your considering adding any more modern accessories, like lighting relays, electric fans, power windows, fuel pumps, efi, etc. doing this mod makes sense. even if you not thinking of adding these extras doing this mod makes sense. it removes the current from the ammeter and the old 45year old wiring and is safer overall.
Posted By: NachoRT74
Re: Alternator upgrade...and wiring modifacation - 01/30/14 04:23 PM
Quote:
see the attachment. for 100 amps all you need to do is run a supplemental wire from the back of the alternator to the starter relay. this way the current will bypass the bulkhead and go right to the battery. that's the simple explanation.
I made that diagram long time ago.
Is incorrect as far you don have the correct ammeter to work with the propper shunt ( i.e. the ones used on mid to lates 70s Mopars )
With regular ammeters this is the correct setup ( and learn how to read an ammeter ):
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,33574.0/all.html
Madelectrical info is partially incorrect on some stuff they state.
Posted By: RapidRobert
Re: Alternator upgrade...and wiring modifacation - 01/30/14 04:48 PM
My
. (1) use the alt that meets your electrical/visual requirements (2) relay electrical add ons directly to this alt (3) Nacho's bulkhead parallel bypass (4) If you ARE eliminating the ammeter then as said run a charge wire (with overload protection, FL or...) from alt to starter relay. Just me I keep the ammeter & add a voltmeter to switched 12V, relay add ons to the alt, clean/check ALL terminals/connections, do Nacho's bulkhead parallel bypass. You can have a 1000 amp alt & all kinds of electrical draws & if they are being fed right from the source (the alt) with relays & the wiring is clean/tight/adequate gauge then all is good & no effect on the rest of the vehicle.
Posted By: NachoRT74
Re: Alternator upgrade...and wiring modifacation - 01/30/14 05:10 PM
Quote:
100 amps might be a bit overkill depending on what additonal accessories you plan on running.
when you say restoration, do you mean that, where everything should look stock?
or resto mod, where as long as it is close you are happy?
because those things make a difference in how much you can upgrade.
the mad bypass "looks" fairly stock, but higher than 100 amp alts don't really look stock.
78 amps is the highest "stock" square back you can get from a parts store with life time warranties.
there are kits and powermaster alts that go to 100 amps ish for the square and round backs.
then there are the later denso alts from toyota's and pre magnum trucks.
but really unless you are running electric fan's, fuel pump and a few other things that are high amp draw's do you really need it?
what are you trying to fix?
not true.
You can get a thousand amps alt if you want, but if car and accesories only requires 60 amps, the alternator will only source 60 amps. Nothing to overkill from alternator really
which will overkill the system is adding lot of accesories, sourced from the wrong side of the charging system, plus bad condition connections/wires.. PLUS an uneficient charging system.
A Giant power reserve batt with an unrated alternator also will overkill the system, because makes to work the charging system allways on Discharge side, with constant stress.
So keep a relativelly stock batt and better alt and you'll be done!.
Better a bigger alt with a "small" capacity alt, than backwards. It has been a local ( Venezuela ) GIANT mistake, upgrade the cars with big capacity batteries keeping the stock alt, plus at the time source all added accesories from Batt. The batt and accesories conected to, will keep sucking power forever, keeping discharge reading from an alt unable to refill it and source added acc. This will add stress on all wiring related and ammeter burning everything.
Posted By: RapidRobert
Re: Alternator upgrade...and wiring modifacation - 01/30/14 05:22 PM
Quote:
Better a bigger alt with a "small" capacity alt, than backwards.
Nacho did you mean bigger alt/smaller batt
Posted By: NachoRT74
Re: Alternator upgrade...and wiring modifacation - 01/30/14 05:30 PM
yeap sorry LOL
Posted By: Andrewh
Re: Alternator upgrade...and wiring modifacation - 01/30/14 06:50 PM
I agree, you can have 1000 amp or a million amp alt and it makes no difference unless you draw that.
however, what I mean was, over kill in the sense of buying a 200 dollar power master alt for the 120 amp square back.
when you could spend 60 bucks for the 78 amp parts store one and be doing just as well.
there is no reason to spend big money on a big amp alt if you don't need the amperage.
Posted By: GLR
Re: Alternator upgrade...and wiring modifacation - 01/30/14 07:10 PM
So..can anyone tell me what amperage would be enough to run the following options that will be on my car;
A/C
Cruise control
power windows
200 watt stereo/ with CD changer
Factory Hide away headlights
Power seats
possible electric fan maybe a dual fan set up
That's all I can think of..
Posted By: 71birdJ68
Re: Alternator upgrade...and wiring modifacation - 01/30/14 08:15 PM
I think something that should also be considered when talking about the charging/ electrical system. Corrosion on all the connections in the car after 40+ years, especially the electronic voltage regulator, and ignition box. Those are case grounded, and only with the two or three sheet metal bolts. Ever noticed the potting running down the firewall where they have been running hot, before they fail? My thinking is corrosion builds up, and the ground gets weaker, and weaker causing the box to draw more, and more current until it fails. Something I did was to brush down to bare metal both on the firewall, and the backside of the box, and under the bolt head. Remember this is just a sheet metal bolt that can get loose over time, so I also on the other side of the sheet metal put a toothed lock washer that will chew into the metal and self a locking nut on it. Any thoughts on this?
Posted By: Andrewh
Re: Alternator upgrade...and wiring modifacation - 01/30/14 09:55 PM
in my case, for everything that required a body ground, I ran a new ground wire to it directly. either from the battery or the block.
I don't rely on sheet metal screws to ground something if I can help it.
as for the op-
I would then step up to over 100 amps if you are truly going to run all that stuff.
While I was able to run on a 78 amp square back for a while, short hops eventally would drain my battery all the way down.
since I mostly only do incity stop and go, errands to the store type stuff, I found it couldn't keep up.
after switching out to a 90 amp or 120 amp(honestly not sure which since it is a boneyard alt,) it has kept up fine.
however in my case, it was the whole motor.
in your case, you will have to get AndyF's or mancini's(which may be the same) specific brackets for the alt you picked if you go the later denso alts, or spend some bigger bucks then I like, on a powermaster.
Posted By: ahy
Re: Alternator upgrade...and wiring modifacation - 01/30/14 11:35 PM
Quote:
So..can anyone tell me what amperage would be enough to run the following options that will be on my car;
A/C
Cruise control
power windows
200 watt stereo/ with CD changer
Factory Hide away headlights
Power seats
possible electric fan maybe a dual fan set up
That's all I can think of..
For all but the electric fan a 78 amp square back should do it... with some dimming at idle likely. The square back, by design, does not have much idle output. The uprated versions gain peak output but not idle output.
Add the electric fan and you need something better. A decent fan will pull 20-40 amps and you need it to work at idle. A 120 amp Denso, 140 amp Powermaster or big frame 100 amp Chrysler unit would be good choices.
The "with AC" brackets complicate fitting a non stock alternator. Distance from top to bottom mounts is fixed by the brackets and must match the alternator in most cases. With stock heads, the Powermaster 140 amp GM derived alternator for MOPARs may fit. With Ed heads, no go. The output stud wants to hit the head. At lease mine did.
On my junk - with large A1000 high pressure EFI pump, AC and lots of electronics - I tried the 75 amp Powermaster squareback. It worked but barely. The 20+ amp fuel pump running all the time was just too much for it. I put the "big Chrysler" 100 amp unit on it ('78 Cordoba core engine) and it works great. Just heavy.
Posted By: Jerry
Re: Alternator upgrade...and wiring modifacation - 01/30/14 11:51 PM
if you go with a more modern alternator like a nippendenso unit, the charge curve is better. the alternator will actually put out amperage at idle and will build more amperage sooner than the old models. this will help with the lights dimming at idle and killing your battery. btw the new nippendesno alternators can run off the factory voltage regulators.
Posted By: Andrewh
Re: Alternator upgrade...and wiring modifacation - 01/31/14 12:54 AM
you can use either the dual field or single field.
I am using the single field vr and grounding the other field on the alt I have on a 2000 5.9 mag. using all the 2000 mag accessories.
Posted By: 572hemi
Re: Alternator upgrade...and wiring modifacation - 01/31/14 01:46 AM
Not sure if you would be interested but I have a pt 8-47529 I bought at Mancini (Mopar Nats last summer). It is s chrome unit, powermaster 140 amo, used it less than 100 miles, problem was not the alternator but a connection issue. New price is $263.95, sell for $150 plus shipping
Posted By: Pyper70
Re: Alternator upgrade...and wiring modifacation - 01/31/14 04:49 PM
I have a stock looking Delco unit in my 69 Charger...440...its a 100amp unit. I don't run a crazy stereo system though. just two speakers, no sub or amp. My philharmonic is under the hood. I also run an electric fan and HID lights. Looks great and cheap and easy to find, you do need to make custom brackets though.
On the 72 RR I am working on for my buddy..We installed a 140amp PowerMaster alternator. He is running a sub, 4 speaker system, electric fan, and H4 headlights. Single cable to the battery (00 cable) with a 160amp Mega Fuse. Using the same alternator brackets. Black powdercoated finish..Nice unit.