Moparts

crane ductile on Indy x heads?

Posted By: wagmytale

crane ductile on Indy x heads? - 12/01/13 02:35 AM

Just wondering if anyone has used this combo and curious if the geometry was good?? Thinking about buying a set because the prw's I bought are junk. My options are very limited as my rules specify steel rockers only.
Posted By: 471Magnum

Re: crane ductile on Indy x heads? - 12/01/13 04:02 PM

I'm running a set on mine. I did have an adjuster break. Fortunately no collateral damage. Replaced them all with Smith Bros adjusters . No problems since.

Crane had a bad batch of adjusters get out about 10-15 years ago. Caused widespread havoc. mine should have been new enough that shouldn't have been an issue .
Posted By: R/T1968R/T

Re: crane ductile on Indy x heads? - 12/01/13 06:28 PM

Is it possible to identify the bad adjusters by eye maybe stamping numbers or marks
Posted By: 471Magnum

Re: crane ductile on Indy x heads? - 12/01/13 11:52 PM

Supposedly they were not hardened properly. I think you can identify them by dragging a file across them. If they score, they have not been hardened properly.

This all went down in the late 90s, and the gold roller rockers were the biggest culprits.

I bought my rockers new off ebay just a few years ago. No indication that they were old stock. I may have just over-torqued an adjuster. It was broken mid-way up the threads. I got lucky that the broken adjuster didn't back out all the way and really create a problem. Just to be safe, I replaced them all.
Posted By: Sinitro

Re: crane ductile on Indy x heads? - 12/02/13 12:34 AM

The problem went beyond the adjusters...
Crane and then Mopar sold defective rockers, they were not hardened properly and the valve stem would punch a hole into the rocker tip..

I went through a set complained to Mopar they referred it to Crane, who was just entering bankruptcy Chapter 11....
I talked with the Crane engineering chief and he tried to blow it off with the sunshine treatment.. It was known issue that Crane hoped would go away. Very sad a major brand doesn't stand behind their products..

Getting nowhere I chucked the Cranes into the dumpster and upgraded to Harland Sharp, never looked back..

Just my $0.05...
Posted By: cknight

Re: crane ductile on Indy x heads? - 12/02/13 01:46 AM

In the late 1990's, as soon as Crane realized there was one batch of improperly hardened adjusters that had been sent out (both aluminum and ductile iron rockers were involved), a recall was issued immediately to everyone that had purchased them. If we notified a distributor they should have notified their customers. Crane did not have any access to who the distributor's customers were. Some distributors apparently did not notify their customers. This was the most expensive recall in Crane's history. Parts and labor were compensated for. If a hole was "punched" in a rocker tip (ductile iron?), that certainly wouldn't leave much left of the rocker. Crane has never offered stamped steel MOPAR rockers. Crane was not "just entering" Chapter 11, they were completely shut down in a 45 minuter period in February of 2009 by an over-zealous bank officer, with no warning at all. Crane's procedure has been (and is) to request the return of any suspect parts for inspection. If there's an actual quality issue, even on used racing parts, it's addressed. Since you tossed yours, it would appear you did not return them. Regards, Chase The problem went beyond the adjusters...
Crane and then Mopar sold defective rockers, they were not hardened properly and the valve stem would punch a hole into the rocker tip..

I went through a set complained to Mopar they referred it to Crane, who was just entering bankruptcy Chapter 11....
I talked with the Crane engineering chief and he tried to blow it off with the sunshine treatment.. It was known issue that Crane hoped would go away. Very sad a major brand doesn't stand behind their products..

Getting nowhere I chucked the Cranes into the dumpster and upgraded to Harland Sharp, never looked back..

Just my $0.05...

Posted By: Sinitro

Re: crane ductile on Indy x heads? - 12/02/13 08:11 PM

Quote:

In the late 1990's, as soon as Crane realized there was one batch of improperly hardened adjusters that had been sent out (both aluminum and ductile iron rockers were involved), a recall was issued immediately to everyone that had purchased them. If we notified a distributor they should have notified their customers. Crane did not have any access to who the distributor's customers were. Some distributors apparently did not notify their customers. This was the most expensive recall in Crane's history. Parts and labor were compensated for. If a hole was "punched" in a rocker tip (ductile iron?), that certainly wouldn't leave much left of the rocker. Crane has never offered stamped steel MOPAR rockers. Crane was not "just entering" Chapter 11, they were completely shut down in a 45 minuter period in February of 2009 by an over-zealous bank officer, with no warning at all. Crane's procedure has been (and is) to request the return of any suspect parts for inspection. If there's an actual quality issue, even on used racing parts, it's addressed. Since you tossed yours, it would appear you did not return them. Regards, Chase The problem went beyond the adjusters...
Crane and then Mopar sold defective rockers, they were not hardened properly and the valve stem would punch a hole into the rocker tip..

I went through a set complained to Mopar they referred it to Crane, who was just entering bankruptcy Chapter 11....
I talked with the Crane engineering chief and he tried to blow it off with the sunshine treatment.. It was known issue that Crane hoped would go away. Very sad a major brand doesn't stand behind their products..

Getting nowhere I chucked the Cranes into the dumpster and upgraded to Harland Sharp, never looked back..

Just my $0.05...






Lets clear the air from the BS...
The rockers were ductile iron made by Crane sold by Mopar. The mention hole was about 0.040" deep in multiple rockers...
Caused by inadequate hardening of the rocker arm tip, and pressure of the valve stem..

Since we have been in the car performance industry for over 30 years and have built a number of SEMA and major magazine show cars... So yes we know what we are doing..

Without boring our audience, talk to Mr.Lance he can give you the roller coaster financial details starting in 2006 with the $18 million investment by Mikronite Technologies.....

Regarding my discussion with the Crane engineering director, this took place on the floor of SEMA... I brought a sample of the bad rocker arm and was just flagging the issue, he broke out into a big tantrum. I didn't expect any reembursement but wanted them to be aware of the quality issue. After his outburst with everyone looking on I just pedalled on...

Final note..
Very sad there many of our aftermarket legacy performance parts companies are having financial issues such as Holley, McCloud, MSD, Edelbrock...
But I guess with the sales of the factory performance crate motors few individuals are building up their own engines..
Resulting in less demand for the subject performance components..

Just my $0.05...
Posted By: cknight

Re: crane ductile on Indy x heads? - 12/02/13 09:07 PM

Since I've been at Crane for over 46 years, I'm more than familiar with what's happened here. I don't need to talk to Lance Harris, I lived through all of it. I do not doubt your abilities as an engine builder. I'm disappointed that someone from Crane would have treated you with a lack of concern for your issues. When you said hole, I assumed a through hole, that's obviously not the case. The ductile rocker tips were flame hardened at that time, which had been our procedure since the 1960's. We supplied ductile iron rockers to MOPAR for over 20 years. Could a few have been missed? Certainly, that's why we would like these parts returned for our inspection. In 2009 we made new tooling for all of our ductile iron rockers, and then induction hardened the tips for a more consistent product. Regarding my previous post, feel free to PM me if you have any other questions. Chase
Posted By: Sinitro

Re: crane ductile on Indy x heads? - 12/03/13 02:02 AM

Quote:

Since I've been at Crane for over 46 years, I'm more than familiar with what's happened here. I don't need to talk to Lance Harris, I lived through all of it. I do not doubt your abilities as an engine builder. I'm disappointed that someone from Crane would have treated you with a lack of concern for your issues. When you said hole, I assumed a through hole, that's obviously not the case. The ductile rocker tips were flame hardened at that time, which had been our procedure since the 1960's. We supplied ductile iron rockers to MOPAR for over 20 years. Could a few have been missed? Certainly, that's why we would like these parts returned for our inspection. In 2009 we made new tooling for all of our ductile iron rockers, and then induction hardened the tips for a more consistent product. Regarding my previous post, feel free to PM me if you have any other questions. Chase



Chase..
Many thanx for the candid response. I wish I had talked to you originally..
Anyhow this happened in 2007 or 2008 don't really remember the exact date, as mentioned I wasn't looking for reembursment or replacment as we had already addressed the subject. Just trying to make the brand aware of the quality issue, I recall there were 5 rockers out of 16 that had the hole. I couldn't figure out why I kept getting valve noise, after readjusting pre-load until I pulled the whole rocker shafts..

Have a good holiday season..

Just my $0.05...
Posted By: qkRick

Re: crane ductile on Indy x heads? - 12/05/13 02:47 PM



Excellent, informative post. It is refreshing to see an exchange like this not devolve into . Chase, is there any chance of you providing the address that we could send our rockers to for inspection?

Thanks for the input
Posted By: cknight

Re: crane ductile on Indy x heads? - 12/05/13 05:41 PM

That's: Crane Cams 1830 Holsonback Dr. Daytona Beach, FL 32117 Be sure to include a thorough letter of explanation. Thanks, Chase
Posted By: CompWedgeEngines

Re: crane ductile on Indy x heads? - 12/05/13 06:53 PM

The fact that Chase is on here folowing up is testament to the fact that Crane cares about their product. There are a gazillion posts a day on the internet, and Chase takes time to monitor anything that references their product, especially here on Moparts. Chase has beem around Mopars for a long time, and always is willing to give a professional response without drama and BS, and as an " old schooler", just supplies facts.If Chase was to rattle off some names of " who's who" in performance over the last 40+ years, I bet he can name most of them as friends.

I lived through some issues with the screws, but in my profession, was able to handle it internally. If you deal with enough manufacters, you'll find rocker arms, rocker shafts ( ESPECIALLY!) and valve componentsw all have issues at one time or another. You might be surprised to know how a rocker shaft is made, and you'll change your appreciation for that simple " shaft". As far as adjuster screws, I've used probably almost every brand out there, and maybe all but one have had some issue. A lot of times, it comes down to an outside vendor issue, that the manufacter doesnt even know about till after the fact.

Anyhow, hats off to Chase for the support here on Moparts...
Posted By: qkRick

Re: crane ductile on Indy x heads? - 12/06/13 03:29 PM

Thanks Again Chase
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