Driving a Mopar with a manual Valve Body..

Posted By: cal_gecko

Driving a Mopar with a manual Valve Body.. - 11/22/13 01:27 AM

So my car is done.. I'm going to pick it up in about an hour .. it's a 71 Dart Swinger with a mildly built 360, 8.75" rear end and trans (904) is built with a Griner reverse Valve Body, low first gear set, upgraded clutches, 2800 rpm stall converter..

So this will be my first time driving it in 10 years of owning it.. I've never driven a car with a manual valve body.. may seem like a dumb question, but I'm assuming it should be pretty straightforward, shift it when the rpm's climb, and as I'm slowing down, downshift... right ?

Nothing fancy - I'm assuming....

is it ok to start in 2nd gear if I wanted to?

Posted By: Dan Halen

Re: Driving a Mopar with a manual Valve Body.. - 11/22/13 01:45 AM

Up shift as needed, no need to wind it up. I down shift to first as I

come to a stop to avoid unnecessary wear. The only thing that can be

dicey is downshifting when you're getting on it from a 50+ mph roll.

You went all out on a Griner for a street car??

Posted By: forphorty

Re: Driving a Mopar with a manual Valve Body.. - 11/22/13 02:02 AM

The Griner is a low band apply(LBA) valve body. My only experience is with the TA non low band apply vb. I never downshift when i slow down. I've heard that a LBA vb will jerk when shifted into first while moving. Again, no experience with the LBA type. Obviously if you slow down and then need to accelerate from a low speed, you may want to downshift. I will sometimes take off in second when driving in ice and snow. Otherwise it's not a good idea, due to converter slippage and heat.

Posted By: 70AARcuda

Re: Driving a Mopar with a manual Valve Body.. - 11/22/13 02:19 AM

Quote:

The Griner is a low band apply(LBA) valve body. My only experience is with the TA non low band apply vb. I never downshift when i slow down. I've heard that a LBA vb will jerk when shifted into first while moving. Again, no experience with the LBA type. Obviously if you slow down and then need to accelerate from a low speed, you may want to downshift. I will sometimes take off in second when driving in ice and snow. Otherwise it's not a good idea, due to converter slippage and heat.

yes..down shifting into 1st with a LBA valve body will cause the engine rpm to go up...and transmission will be braking or slowing the car...

Posted By: codfish

Re: Driving a Mopar with a manual Valve Body.. - 11/22/13 03:06 AM

Quote:

Up shift as needed, no need to wind it up. I down shift to first as I

come to a stop to avoid unnecessary wear.

This is how I drive the Dart with my CRT low band applied 727.

Update us once you're home

codfish

Posted By: Blown 68 R/T

Re: Driving a Mopar with a manual Valve Body.. - 11/22/13 03:14 AM

I remember the instructions said to be fully stopped before downshifting from second into first. Been driving on the street with mine for 12+yrs.

Posted By: dOc !

Re: Driving a Mopar with a manual Valve Body.. - 11/22/13 03:37 AM

I must have a stump-puller motor in mine compared to you other

.... on a EZ grandma leave at a stop lite ... the BUTTON on my dash shifter is in D .... with a 2.76 gear .

...and none of youz

say PICS or it never happened ..

Posted By: cal_gecko

Re: Driving a Mopar with a manual Valve Body.. - 11/22/13 03:54 AM

well .. turns out the car isn't ready. alternator isn't charging the battery..

thanks for the tips on the VB .. as for downshifting for accelerating/passing - do you downshift at the same time you step on the gas - do you downshift a moment before or after stepping on the gas?

Posted By: 340SHORTY

Re: Driving a Mopar with a manual Valve Body.. - 11/22/13 04:04 AM

drive it like a granny gear stick without a clutch.. Hope you have a good shifter..

Posted By: dOc !

Re: Driving a Mopar with a manual Valve Body.. - 11/22/13 04:07 AM

....leaving in THIRD is fine ... just don't get into the secondaries of the carb ...

Posted By: bboogieart

Re: Driving a Mopar with a manual Valve Body.. - 11/22/13 04:11 AM

Quote:

....leaving in THIRD is fine ... just don't get into the secondaries of the carb ...

Sometimes I think you aint all there.

Posted By: dOc !

Re: Driving a Mopar with a manual Valve Body.. - 11/22/13 04:26 AM

Quote:

Quote:

....leaving in THIRD is fine ... just don't get into the secondaries of the carb ...

Sometimes I think you aint all there.

I am there - ALL there ...on my push-button-shifter .. and ferr-surr NOT spaced-out and lost

Posted By: 340SHORTY

Re: Driving a Mopar with a manual Valve Body.. - 11/22/13 05:13 AM

Quote:

Quote:

....leaving in THIRD is fine ... just don't get into the secondaries of the carb ...

Sometimes I think you aint all there.

Sometimes ??

OH!! Hi Doc

Posted By: dOc !

Re: Driving a Mopar with a manual Valve Body.. - 11/22/13 06:29 AM

Justa buncha spaced-out and lost nuts here SOMEtimes...

Posted By: RJS

Re: Driving a Mopar with a manual Valve Body.. - 11/22/13 06:43 AM

If your VB has a free wheeling first gear do not go back onto the gas while it's free wheeling.
I've had Manual Valve bodies on the street before and downshifting isn't he best for it.

Posted By: cal_gecko

Re: Driving a Mopar with a manual Valve Body.. - 11/22/13 07:10 AM

Quote:

If your VB has a free wheeling first gear do not go back onto the gas while it's free wheeling.
I've had Manual Valve bodies on the street before and downshifting isn't he best for it.

I have NO idea if it has that or not ...

Posted By: buildanother

Re: Driving a Mopar with a manual Valve Body.. - 11/22/13 07:19 AM

You'll get used to shifting the thing in about 2 minutes of driving it. I've had mvb's with and w/out low band apply, and you can easily drive them all over with out trouble, but I avoided downshifting pretty much, unless almost stopped.

Posted By: cal_gecko

Re: Driving a Mopar with a manual Valve Body.. - 11/22/13 07:26 AM

When you say you avoid downshifting... what if you're cruising along and need to accelerate quickly (say, hypothetically a Camaro pulls up next to you as you're cruising along at 30mph) ... I'm sure you'd downshift in order to accelerate as quickly as possible, right? (not advocating street racing... this hypothetical example is on a closed course)

Or ... even just getting on the highway or something..

Posted By: 340SHORTY

Re: Driving a Mopar with a manual Valve Body.. - 11/22/13 09:13 AM

In the (brand unknown) MVB I could do the normal 1, 2, 3, and 3, 2, shifts with no problem. I didnt shift to 1st till I was stopped.

Posted By: cal_gecko

Re: Driving a Mopar with a manual Valve Body.. - 11/22/13 09:16 AM

Quote:

drive it like a granny gear stick without a clutch.. Hope you have a good shifter..

Never driven a granny gear stick...

I'm using a B&M Quicksilver shifter

Posted By: slantzilla

Re: Driving a Mopar with a manual Valve Body.. - 11/22/13 10:25 AM

A Griner should be a low band apply unless it's an older one.

Realistically, you can start out in 2nd or even 3rd if you want, it really won't hurt anything.

You can tell instantly if it's an LBA or not. Back off of it in 1st. If it has engine braking it's an LBA, if not, it isn't.

Do not downshift into first while you're coasting with an LBA. Try it once and you'll find out why.

As said before do not downshift to low and get on the gas if it's a non LBA. You can roll the sprag and things will go downhill from there. 904 isn't nearly as bad as a 727 about rolling the sprag, but it can still happen. 904 usually won't explode either.

Yes, you can downshift 3rd to 2nd and gas it for passing, etc., LBA or not.

I've driven many thousands of miles on the street with a manual valve body. No big deal once you get used to it. Almost as much fun as a clutch car.

Posted By: SNK-EYZ

Re: Driving a Mopar with a manual Valve Body.. - 11/22/13 10:45 AM

Here's a reverse manual 727 non LBA question.

I've launched at the track before with my hand on the shifter and right at/after launch it goes into second. (the shift-r-gate doesn't work every time as I expected).

I pushed it back into first (still under full throttle).

Is that a problem?

Is a full throttle downshift into first a no-no with a non lba valve body?

Posted By: BB65Barracuda

Re: Driving a Mopar with a manual Valve Body.. - 11/22/13 11:39 AM

Quote:

Here's a reverse manual 727 non LBA question.

I've launched at the track before with my hand on the shifter and right at/after launch it goes into second. (the shift-r-gate doesn't work every time as I expected).

I pushed it back into first (still under full throttle).

Is that a problem?

IMO that is a No No
You might just have company in the drivers compartment downshifting to first under full throttle with no LBA. Trans tunnel exploding and spraying you right foot with transmission parts.
Perhaps you should fix your shifter!
Ive ran nothing but reverse manual valve body's in all of my auto Mopars, and that is quite a few Mopars!

Posted By: SNK-EYZ

Re: Driving a Mopar with a manual Valve Body.. - 11/22/13 12:08 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Here's a reverse manual 727 non LBA question.

I've launched at the track before with my hand on the shifter and right at/after launch it goes into second. (the shift-r-gate doesn't work every time as I expected).

I pushed it back into first (still under full throttle).

Is that a problem?

Quote:

IMO that is a No No
You might just have company in the drivers compartment downshifting to first under full throttle with no LBA. Trans tunnel exploding and spraying you right foot with transmission parts.
Perhaps you should fix your shifter!
Ive ran nothing but reverse manual valve body's in all of my auto Mopars, and that is quite a few Mopars!

I guess I won't be downshifting it again.
It's got a trans shield and one of CRT's Ultimate sprags along with other stuff in it.

I need to figure out why the shifter started doing that, it didn't originally.

Several people simply said "Don't put your hand on the shifter til you're ready to shift to 2nd".
I was launching with my hand on the shifter.

Posted By: Mr.Yuck

Re: Driving a Mopar with a manual Valve Body.. - 11/22/13 02:19 PM

I have a Turbo Action but I'm guessing it's the same deal, drive it like you normally would, shift when you want. And yes you can start in 2nd, but I never do, except the burn-out box because YOU HAVE TO. I don't down shift unless I'm going real slow and then I go all the way to 1st because mine will "free wheel" in 1st. I have a reverse pattern, I'd guess standard would be better for all out street use.

Posted By: 383man

Re: Driving a Mopar with a manual Valve Body.. - 11/22/13 02:55 PM

Quote:

I must have a stump-puller motor in mine compared to you other .... on a EZ grandma leave at a stop lite ... the BUTTON on my dash shifter is in D .... with a 2.76 gear .

...and none of youz say PICS or it never happened ..

What the heck are you trying to say ??

I think you may be the

on this one.

I have been driving my reverse manual valve body mopars since the 70's on the street.
One simple rule is just dont downshift into first until you are at a complete stop. Dont matter if its LBA or not as long as you dont downshift into first until you stop everything will be fine. You can downshift to second at normal speeds just like any auto trans would do. When I am coming to a stop at a redlite I downshift to second about 25 mph and if the lite turns and I have to go I will already be in second but if the lite dont turn then I come to a stop and then downshift to first. And I just upshift like a normal auto would shift unless at the track and I am racing then of course I wind it up some. Its not a big deal if you just use common sense and drive it like a normal car. And as was said the one rule is just dont downshift to first until you stop and you will be fine no matter what valve body is in it. That will protect the overrunning clutch (sprag) in the trans because if it has no LBA and you downshifted to first while moving and get on the gas you can hurt the rollers in the sprag so to be safe just come to a stop before you downshift into first. Downshifting into second and getting on the gas is fine. Ron

Posted By: cal_gecko

Re: Driving a Mopar with a manual Valve Body.. - 11/22/13 04:44 PM

Thanks for all the info, guys!! Yes, it's a reverse pattern, and I remember John Cope talking me into the LBA aspect of it.. I think I also got upgraded clutches, kevlar bands and koleans steels, in addition to the low 1st gear set from him ... I had no idea what any of it meant, but it sounded like it was 'necessary' to build a solid trans for the car.
I also put in a 2800rpm stall converter .. so the trans is more high performance than my engine, at this point!

Thanks for the explanations to my rookie questions without making me feel like an imbecile - it was a little embarrassing asking questions about how to drive an automatic transmission!!!

So - Never downshift to 1st unless I'm at a dead stop is rule #1 !!
If doing a burnout, start in 2nd gear is rule #2
Drive it like I stole it is rule # 3

Posted By: bboogieart

Re: Driving a Mopar with a manual Valve Body.. - 11/22/13 04:51 PM

Sorry for stepping on your thread Cal. I get the anticipation. I haven't been out of my ride for as long as you but I am getting antsy.
Sounds like you have a sweet set up. You are going to enjoy it. The wait is almost over. I am sure once you get behind the wheel you will just get the feel for how it works.
and now...

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

....leaving in THIRD is fine ... just don't get into the secondaries of the carb ...

Sometimes I think you aint all there.

I am there - ALL there ...on my push-button-shifter .. and ferr-surr NOT spaced-out and lost

And not a bit judgmental, well... maybe mental.
Yu sher speel like yer spaced out.
And ralerly if ever have something useful to say.
have a good day glass man. It's all in fun, I hope.
if not too bad fer u

Posted By: RJS

Re: Driving a Mopar with a manual Valve Body.. - 11/22/13 08:09 PM

You can downshift to 1st while going if you have a free wheeling first setup just NEVER go back onto the gas pedal. Your using a race only piece in a street application as I and many others do. That's why if you need to pass that Camaro you need Horsepower not a downshift.
Ron

Posted By: Paul_Fancsali

Re: Driving a Mopar with a manual Valve Body.. - 11/22/13 08:21 PM

I have had 3 turbo action valve bodies over the years and went back to full auto trans, Too many problems and U joints and cops don't like the chirp squeal shifts . Beside programed correctly full auto valve body's will shift just as fast esp 2-3.

Posted By: Big Wedge

Re: Driving a Mopar with a manual Valve Body.. - 11/23/13 03:25 PM

I have raced and street driven mine for some years now. The only issue I had was breaking the front band anchor wedge when I down shifted from too high an RPM.

Garth

Attached picture 7933601-IM001240.JPG

Posted By: Dean_Kuzluzski

Re: Driving a Mopar with a manual Valve Body.. - 11/24/13 01:17 AM

Quote:

So - Never downshift to 1st unless I'm at a dead stop is rule #1 !!
If doing a burnout, start in 2nd gear is rule #2
Drive it like I stole it is rule # 3

Kinda like driving that old 74 /6 Dodge van my folks had with the "non-synchro" 3 speed manual. You couldn't put it into 1st unless you were at a stop since 1st gear had no synchro's, only 2nd and 3rd.

There were moments when you rolled up to light and it changed on you when you almost came to a stop, traffic behind you, no time for a complete stop............so off you go in 2nd and with it the shuddering of the dash.