Pinion Nut Backed Off

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I bet its a 489 right? The crush sleeve has lost its tension. You need to replace the sleave--preferabley with a solid spacer.

Yes 489. Is this what I want?? I need to order ASAP to get it for this weekend, here goes 25 bucks on shipping next day. Any disadvantage to the spacer vs the sleeve?

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/rat-4103/overview/

Matt that is what you want , I prefer the Richmond piece over ratech because of spacer size and shim supplied. anway you do know that the pinion has to come out to change the the crush sleeve out , right ?

If you need it to run the car this weekend get the kit , pull the outer pinion bearing and drop in a shim, or 2, and reset rotating torque , redloctite , staking not required. Then over the winter swap out that POS crush sleeve and if it has a CONE TYPE get that POS out of there too .

I found the richmond one after i ordered of course and thought to myself Id probably rather get that since I know the brand but didnt want to mess anything up by canceling the order. I ordered the crush sleeve too in case Im missing anything.

The third member is out of the car with the caps off. What is entailed with setting the pinion load with the spacer? I would really like to have this in this weekend if I can.

Posted By: Polarapete

Re: Pinion Nut Backed Off - 11/08/13 08:17 AM

Sorry to disappoint you...I have better things to do than to get into a flame war. I don't have to impress anyone but me

Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: Pinion Nut Backed Off - 11/08/13 09:01 AM

You need a selection of various thickness pinion shims that will fit in between thw front pinion bearing and the new pinion crush sleeve replacement spacer. On used bearings I would shoot for between 12 to 18 INCH lbs rotational torque (test it both ways

)with the pinion yoke and pinion gear pointed straight up. Make sure there is no dirt or debris in the bearings or races

I use a small amount of the gear oil I'm going to run in that third members as a lube, it doesn't need to be drowned in lube, a light coating will do for set up purposes

Once you get the pinion bearing preload set reassemble the carrier and set both the carrier bearing preload and the back lash(make sure and check the backlash in 3 or 4 places around the ring gear to make sure that it is on straight and not cocked sideways on the posi unit, it shouldn't vary more than .0015 max

Now get to work

Posted By: imfixinmopars426

Re: Pinion Nut Backed Off - 11/08/13 12:36 PM

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You need a selection of various thickness pinion shims that will fit in between thw front pinion bearing and the new pinion crush sleeve replacement spacer. On used bearings I would shoot for between 12 to 18 INCH lbs rotational torque (test it both ways )with the pinion yoke and pinion gear pointed straight up. Make sure there is no dirt or debris in the bearings or races I use a small amount of the gear oil I'm going to run in that third members as a lube, it doesn't need to be drowned in lube, a light coating will do for set up purposes Once you get the pinion bearing preload set reassemble the carrier and set both the carrier bearing preload and the back lash(make sure and check the backlash in 3 or 4 places around the ring gear to make sure that it is on straight and not cocked sideways on the posi unit, it shouldn't vary more than .0015 max Now get to work

:iagree...never just "crank down the nut on any crush sleeve type rear!..think about it..the crush sleeve has been "crushed pass its original setting,and now your crushing it even more? improper bearing preload.put the solid sleeve in all 489's,and it will set up like a dana rear,and not move,unless your using a used,and un-loctited nut.always use a new locking nut if you can,and like mentioned above..red Loctite should be added too!!

Posted By: dOc !

Re: Pinion Nut Backed Off - 11/08/13 04:27 PM

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Sorry to disappoint you...I have better things to do than to get into a flame war. I don't have to impress anyone but me

No need for a

..... I am just telling you what happened to me.

Posted By: 1KoolBee

Re: Pinion Nut Backed Off - 11/08/13 04:53 PM

The third member is out of the car with the caps off. What is entailed with setting the pinion load with the spacer? I would really like to have this in this weekend if I can.

GTX - Cab is right on the money, glad to see you are doing it right. The "crank it down" approach will get you home in a pinch, but no amount of red Loctite in the world will stop the crush sleeve from losing tension & the rear eventually failing. I once had the pleasure of crossing the centerline into oncoming traffic at about 55 mph in a friends car due to a locked rear-end, no fun. At least we were unscathed and perfectly parked at the opposite curb when the smoke cleared. Good luck!

Posted By: GTX MATT

Re: Pinion Nut Backed Off - 11/08/13 05:18 PM

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The third member is out of the car with the caps off. What is entailed with setting the pinion load with the spacer? I would really like to have this in this weekend if I can.

Yes I'm glad I asked about this! I got my spacer this morning from FedEx, 25 bucks gets you fast delivery!

Posted By: JohnRR

Re: Pinion Nut Backed Off - 11/08/13 05:54 PM

Matt measure the crush sleeve you take out and use that as your MINIMUM spec , put in about .020 more , tighten the nut and check rotating torque. When you torque it the first time slowly rotate it while tightening it to make sure you don't have too little shim, you'll know because it will lock up. There isn't persay a torque spec on the nut for a 489 , the spec given in the manual is the torque it takes to start crushing the sleeve ,after that happens you sneak up on the rotating torque value.

Posted By: Challenger 1

Re: Pinion Nut Backed Off - 11/08/13 06:49 PM

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I had that happen to me in Florida some years back during the winter series events ... just tightened her back up .... no problemO !

Dude, are you serious or just trying to get him killed Once the crush sleeve has collapse enough to allow the pinion nut to back off that sleeve is ruined OP, the 489 3rd members use the crush sleeves to set the pinion bearing preload, not to set the pinion depth You should pull the third member out so you can properly check it when done, wether(SP?) you use a new crush sleeve or a new spacer, you need to make sure that the pinion depth and the pinion bearing preloads are both set up properly One easy way to tell on a posi unit if it was ever in a 489 third member that was raced with decent power and traction is to look for the pinion teeth marks on the posi carrier to see if the crush sleeve collapse allowing the pinion gear to rotate back into the posi unit when backing up, if they(pinion gear) do back out they usually will lock up right away That is the main reason I recommend to drag racers to not use them(489 third members) with stock type crush sleeves

If you haven't noticed, he doesn't know jack and it shows in his posts.

Posted By: dOc !

Re: Pinion Nut Backed Off - 11/08/13 07:05 PM

Chilly 1 ...... You contribute Nothing to this topic except your buffoonery ....take a hike.

Posted By: Challenger 1

Re: Pinion Nut Backed Off - 11/08/13 07:39 PM

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Chilly 1 ...... You contribute Nothing to this topic except your buffoonery ....take a hike.

Like you have? Calling people names is all you seem to do. Too bad for you.

Posted By: dOc !

Re: Pinion Nut Backed Off - 11/08/13 08:30 PM

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Chilly 1 ...... You contribute Nothing to this topic except your buffoonery ....take a hike.

Like you have? Calling people names is all you seem to do. Too bad for you.

Toooo bad for you ....coming on a topic that you know NOTHING about and spouting your foolishness. I had this pinion-nut-back-off happen to me .... and I put another 3k miles on it ...at least.

Posted By: Challenger 1

Re: Pinion Nut Backed Off - 11/08/13 08:42 PM

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Chilly 1 ...... You contribute Nothing to this topic except your buffoonery ....take a hike.

Like you have? Calling people names is all you seem to do. Too bad for you.

Toooo bad for you ....coming on a topic that you know NOTHING about and spouting your foolishness. I had this pinion-nut-back-off happen to me .... and I put another 3k miles on it ...at least.

How many R&P have you replaced?

I have done plenty, 8 3/4 many many 9" and even big truck gears since a long time ago.

I have forgotten more than you have ever known.

You are the most irritating poster on this site by far, wish you would have stayed banned.

Posted By: dOc !

Re: Pinion Nut Backed Off - 11/08/13 08:47 PM

You know NOTHING ..... and I have more experience in the biz-world and the performance industry ...more than you could dream about. Me irritating ? ...then block my posts you dumb-bell ! Duh !!

Posted By: dOc !

Re: Pinion Nut Backed Off - 11/08/13 09:06 PM

To add ..... I have NEVER come after you chally1 unless you have tried to smear me. THEN after that you wind-up with egg all over your face. Leave me the-fugg alone ....and I will say nothing to you.

Posted By: JohnRR

Re: Pinion Nut Backed Off - 11/08/13 10:56 PM

Gary this works wonders ...

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*** You are ignoring this user ***

Posted By: dOc !

Re: Pinion Nut Backed Off - 11/08/13 11:17 PM

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Gary this works wonders ...

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*** You are ignoring this user ***

Ahhhh RoadToad .... Still aligning clutch plates with a tiny screwdriver ? ...

... and the same goes for you ... You leave me alone ... I won't say a thing to you to make you

to your mommy ...

Posted By: Polarapete

Re: Pinion Nut Backed Off - 11/09/13 12:47 AM

Just like watching TV with the sound on "Mute"

Posted By: 6PakBee

Re: Pinion Nut Backed Off - 11/09/13 07:50 PM

What I see missing in this whole discussion is that there are hundreds of thousands of differentials using crush sleeves that work perfectly. In this case is anyone sure that the preload was set correctly to start with? If not, that could be part of this particular problem. Obviously if the differential is apart, now is the time to fix it the right way.

But if I was in Last Chance, Nevada and this happened, I'd run the nut back on until there was zero end play on the pinion, give it another flat, count the turns coming off, replace with Loctite and go until I could do it correctly.

Posted By: Polarapete

Re: Pinion Nut Backed Off - 11/10/13 02:12 AM

I would do the same, but only to get me home or to a shop that could properly repair it.
Once when I used to drive the race car to the track (40 miles) I broke the extension housing on the 727!! We overfilled it with ATF and drove it home @ 25mph leaking all the way. It was late at night, I had no trailer and no choice. Gave the car an ATF bath. After I got a new extension housing, shortened the driveshaft and a trailer never had that problem again.

Posted By: Pacnorthcuda

Re: Pinion Nut Backed Off - 11/10/13 02:33 AM

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I would do the same, but only to get me home or to a shop that could properly repair it.
Once when I used to drive the race car to the track (40 miles) I broke the extension housing on the 727!! We overfilled it with ATF and drove it home @ 25mph leaking all the way. It was late at night, I had no trailer and no choice. Gave the car an ATF bath. After I got a new extension housing, shortened the driveshaft and a trailer never had that problem again.

And the oil trail from SIR to Kirkland still remains!

Posted By: Polarapete

Re: Pinion Nut Backed Off - 11/10/13 02:41 AM

Back in the day when we raced junk we had a saying that "well that is one race track that will never rust"

Posted By: dezduster

Re: Pinion Nut Backed Off - 11/10/13 07:58 PM

For the record I LIKE THE SHIM METHOD! NOT THE CRUSH SLEEVES!
I HAVE RETIGHTENED CRUSH SLEEVES WITH NEW PINION NUTS WITH NO PROBLEMS. I DONT RECOMMEND IT THOUGH.
When you are on the throttle the pinion is being held forward by? The pinion nut then washer, which is holding the yoke to the bearing,the bearing against the race, the race against the housing... http://www.4x4wire.com/toyota/tech/crush_sleeve/gear_layout.jpg
I have found the pinion nut loosening is primarily due to bearing wear, heat cycling and overloading AND reverse burnouts which distorts housing or pinion momentarily and working the crush sleeve. At this point things go wrong quickly, not instantly. The pinion nut is the key IMO. I use a old nut to get my pinion shim thickness selected and then put the new nut on with red locktight green has worked well for me also.