REBUILT 440 ENGINE overheats - HELP.

Posted By: MASSMOPAR

REBUILT 440 ENGINE overheats - HELP. - 10/07/13 01:06 PM

I got this rebuilt 440 hp .030 engine ---
Fires up runs great. BUT under normal
driving conditions she overheats - temp goes thru the roof.

Tried changing the water pump and the thermostat had no effect.

The radiator is hot on the bottom and cold at the top.

TOOK the thermostat completely out and temp stays at 170 degrees -
but I know that is not the correct solution.

What is going on?

Posted By: JohnH

Re: REBUILT 440 ENGINE overheats - HELP. - 10/07/13 01:46 PM

sounds like no circulation thru the radiator,, did you have it cleaned or recore, did you put a air conditioner water pump on the car, weather you have ac or not, also I put a 165 thermostat in mine. the way to check to see if the radiator is stopped up is leave the radiator cap off rev up the engine and if coolant come out the top, it's stopped up..

Posted By: hemicar1971

Re: REBUILT 440 ENGINE overheats - HELP. - 10/07/13 01:55 PM

Have to look at each piece of the puzzle separately. Fresh engine was it hot tanked and cooling passages cleaned and then recleaned and visually inspected. The Water pump and housing are they mated and just what water pump are you using. The rad, is it new has it been recored, what rad is it and how many cores. Thermostate I run 160 but other temps are fine when your system is working perfectly. Is this motor completely stock with no adjustable rockers and everything like cam timing and distributor timing set correctly. All thing I have mentioned can affect how hot the motor runs. There are a lot more things that affect motor heat. Look at one part of the cooling system at a time. Start with the RAD since you say it is cool on the top and hot on the bottom.

Posted By: fastmark

Re: REBUILT 440 ENGINE overheats - HELP. - 10/07/13 02:01 PM

I know this sounds crazy, but it may be the wrong block for the heads.Clean the rad first. Tell me the numbers on the top pad and the casting date. I have a block that was a motorhome block with the extra cooling holes and it would overheat with 906 heads. A buddy had the exact same problem. they have to be matched up with the correct heads and head gaskets.

Posted By: RapidRobert

Re: REBUILT 440 ENGINE overheats - HELP. - 10/07/13 02:09 PM

With no stat & back out in the same driving conditions the overheating problem dissappeared? That'd almost sound like the stat was upside down or something in the stat housing was keeping the stat from completely opening when it was in there

or just a bad stat & possibly the second stat could be bad also. Assuming the timing is in the ballpark & I'm thinking that it is I would have a rad shop pump it up to 15 lbs when hot & see if it holds pressure (head gasket/cracked block or head(s) & if good there then as said the radiator. I'm assuming it runs hot around town and out on the hiway?. Holler how it goes. EDIT FastMark may be on to it (but I would say head gasket cooling holes) especially if it did not overheat before it was rebuilt & now after the rebuild it does overheat & the same rad was used. PS how hot is it getting?

Posted By: dogdays

Re: REBUILT 440 ENGINE overheats - HELP. - 10/07/13 02:43 PM

The key is it ran fine without the thermostat. So it's not the head gasket or block or heads or radiator, it's the thermostat. If you must, leave it out until you can find one that works or how to install it.

R.

Posted By: moper

Re: REBUILT 440 ENGINE overheats - HELP. - 10/07/13 05:01 PM

Quote:

The key is it ran fine without the thermostat. So it's not the head gasket or block or heads or radiator, it's the thermostat. If you must, leave it out until you can find one that works or how to install it.

R.

Posted By: Baxter61

Re: REBUILT 440 ENGINE overheats - HELP. - 10/07/13 05:02 PM

make sure youre not installing your thermostat upside down; seen that before

Posted By: feets

Re: REBUILT 440 ENGINE overheats - HELP. - 10/07/13 05:28 PM

Check out this thread and it'll probably cover what you need.

Posted By: MASSMOPAR

Re: REBUILT 440 ENGINE overheats - HELP. - 10/07/13 08:04 PM

Hi John - Yes -- what is the difference between AC water pump and non ac water pump? I put an A/C water pump in - I thought it would not make any difference. thanks
The pump on the left is NON-AC and the pump on the right was in the engine when overheated. The fins are in a different direction.

Attached picture 7879252-DSC_0688.JPG

Posted By: 80fbody

Re: REBUILT 440 ENGINE overheats - HELP. - 10/07/13 08:29 PM

Looks like you found your issue. Don't take this wrong but I'm glad I'm not the only one this stuff happens to.

Heck, just took apart a "fresh" stroker shortblock to "make sure" it was good to go & found that the oil ring expanders were way to big & scratched a couple of bores on install. Must have been a mfg screwup but machine shop missed it. Fun hobby....

Posted By: Challenger 1

Re: REBUILT 440 ENGINE overheats - HELP. - 10/07/13 08:32 PM

I don't think the impeller is critical which way it's made? It's going to do the same thing either way it's turned.
I like your original pump better than the one with a cheaper stamped impeller.

I bet some of your heat is coming from being lean in the cruise or power mode. Today's gas needs to be jetted much richer than straight gas and that surely will add heat to your new motor being lean. Also you sure you have enough timing, that will cause it to run hot also.

Good luck.

Posted By: RapidRobert

Re: REBUILT 440 ENGINE overheats - HELP. - 10/07/13 08:51 PM

Those are both non AC 8 blade pumps (& I prefer an 8 blader) & the one on the right appears to be more rugged with slightly more vane area to capture water. Unless the impeller is slipping on the shaft (not likely) then the problem is elsewhere

Posted By: MASSMOPAR

Re: REBUILT 440 ENGINE overheats - HELP. - 10/07/13 08:54 PM

The temperature pegs - not just running hot
I think there may be something to this A/C water pump vs non AC water pump, (I hope) Going to install 160 deg t-stat and this non-ac pump tomorrow-see if that does it. hate to think head gasket issue.
thanks for your insight and comments.

Attached picture 7879294-DSC_0688.JPG

Posted By: MASSMOPAR

Re: REBUILT 440 ENGINE overheats - HELP. - 10/07/13 08:57 PM

The direction of the impeller matters not?
What is the diff between ac/non ac?
Thanks

Posted By: Challenger 1

Re: REBUILT 440 ENGINE overheats - HELP. - 10/07/13 08:58 PM

Sorry but that won't fix it, either pump can keep it cool. What carb?

One has 6 and the other has 8 paddles on the impeller.

Posted By: MASSMOPAR

Re: REBUILT 440 ENGINE overheats - HELP. - 10/07/13 09:00 PM

Holley 770 street avenger

Posted By: Challenger 1

Re: REBUILT 440 ENGINE overheats - HELP. - 10/07/13 09:03 PM

Jet up, it's cheap and easy to do. Easier than changing a water pump and see if it helps.

Fuel and timing makes them run hot if everything else is in order. I would run a 180 or even 195 stat.

Stats do seem to be hit or miss as I installed a bad one in a big truck recently . Had to do the job twice.

Posted By: RapidRobert

Re: REBUILT 440 ENGINE overheats - HELP. - 10/07/13 09:05 PM

big block pumps draw coolant in at the center open side & sling it outward & with the clockwise rotation in mind it would appear that the pump on the right in addition to having larger vanes (at least in the pic appearance) & that the horizontle back support part of the vanes is in front rather than trailing like in the left pic which would lead me to believe that it would capture/sling more water. But the problem IS elsewhere. To answer your Q an AC pump has 6 vanes

Posted By: MASSMOPAR

Re: REBUILT 440 ENGINE overheats - HELP. - 10/07/13 09:09 PM

Yes - the 26in radiator is brand new from year one.
You mentioned AC vs NON ac water pump - will that make a diff?

Posted By: JohnH

Re: REBUILT 440 ENGINE overheats - HELP. - 10/07/13 09:14 PM

Also remember there is two different water pump housing that pump on the left side and right side for the outlet. not sure but it may also make a difference what pump you have.. it does make a difference which way those propellers turn..

Posted By: JohnH

Re: REBUILT 440 ENGINE overheats - HELP. - 10/07/13 09:20 PM

Also I see you have a 69 440 pump, don't know the other one's year make, I bought one that was round like the one you have and couldn't get the belts to line up until I noticed the difference in the thickness of the metal where the fan belts go in,,, it threw me off and had to put the correct one on...

Posted By: MASSMOPAR

Re: REBUILT 440 ENGINE overheats - HELP. - 10/07/13 09:24 PM

Facts: Both pumps/impellers turn clockwise -
The pump on the right definitely was in the engine when overheating.
The pump on the left is a NON ac and the impellers are opposite the pump on the right. Does that matter?
I ordered an AC pump (thinking it made no diff) that is
installed now and still overheated. So I took the thermostat
out and now runs cool 170 deg.

Do ya think installing the left pump non ac will make any difference?

Attached picture 7879343-DSC_0688.JPG

Posted By: charge70

Re: REBUILT 440 ENGINE overheats - HELP. - 10/07/13 09:36 PM

The size of the pulleys is different. A/C pulley is smaller than the non a/c.If you use the wrong combo it will drive the pump at the wrong speed and cause cooling prolems or cavitate the pump. John.

Posted By: MASSMOPAR

Re: REBUILT 440 ENGINE overheats - HELP. - 10/07/13 09:42 PM

So if I'm running an A/C water pump with all else being non ac
will that cause overheating condition.
Thanks

Posted By: 62maxwgn

Re: REBUILT 440 ENGINE overheats - HELP. - 10/07/13 11:13 PM

Actually,the original a/C pump is 6 blade ! When you order an A/C pump you get one size fits all 8 blade.

Posted By: Challenger 1

Re: REBUILT 440 ENGINE overheats - HELP. - 10/07/13 11:26 PM

Quote:

Also remember there is two different water pump housing that pump on the left side and right side for the outlet. not sure but it may also make a difference what pump you have.. it does make a difference which way those propellers turn..

Propellers, yes. Impellers in those pumps(which are very crude) will work the same no matter which way they are turned. There not curved. there fore there not backwards no matter which way they get turned.

Posted By: SomeCarGuy

Re: REBUILT 440 ENGINE overheats - HELP. - 10/07/13 11:42 PM

Have you tested the stat in a pot of boiling water? It sounds like you just got a bum stat. You might also look for a high flow stat. Those have bigger open areas for more flow. Robershaw used to make some, havent seen them for sale in a long time though.

Posted By: feets

Re: REBUILT 440 ENGINE overheats - HELP. - 10/07/13 11:49 PM

Quote:

Facts: Both pumps/impellers turn clockwise -

Both impellers are faced the same. Neither is backwards. The blades themselves are curved the same way.

Quote:

Do ya think installing the left pump non ac will make any difference?

No. You are moving water.

I'd stick the first pump back on and follow the advice I posted on the other thread. You could have saved the time and trouble of pulling the pump.

Get an IR temp gun. Start looking for odd heat patterns.

Read that post I linked earlier.
There are no secrets in overheating issues. You simply look for the changes in temperature. You can probably diagnose that thing in less than 10 minutes with a temp gun.

Posted By: feets

Re: REBUILT 440 ENGINE overheats - HELP. - 10/07/13 11:58 PM

I'll help out by posting the info again:

Number one, beyond any question, is to get a temp gun. Period. End of sentence.

Harbor Freight has them on sale for $37.
http://www.harborfreight.com/infrared-thermometer-with-laser-targeting-non-contact-69465.html

Those things work great. Sure, they may be off a degree or two but who cares? You're looking for big swings in temperature and they will get the job done.

If you don't have one you obviously don't want to know why your car is overheating. Get one. Now. We'll wait for you. This thread should still be around when you get back from the store.
Don't have overheating problems? Go get one anyway.

If you have real temperatures of different parts of the cooling system it's really easy to track down any problems. Without those temps you're just guessing.

Use the temp gun to check the radiator temperatures. if your cooling system is working properly you will have about a 30 degree difference between the radiator inlet and outlet. If that isn't the case you have a problem up front.

Scan the radiator across the core. If there are cold spots you know the radiator is plugged and needs attention. Obviously, the radiator will be cooler where the fan is drawing air. If the fan clutch is slipping or the fan is too weak then you will not see a substantial drop in temperature in front of the fan.
Here's a BIG hint: A proper shroud will pull air from all parts of the radiator, not just the bit right in front of the fan. That's why shrouds are important.

You can use the temp gun on the temperature sending unit to confirm the gauge reading.
It can also spot colder spots on the engine if you have a misfire or dead hole. The temp will be cooler on that part of the exhaust manifold too.
You can shoot the cylinder heads to see if one side is cooler than the other. That would indicate problems inside the engine.
Trouble with the A/C? You can check air temperatures at the registers as well as line temperatures under the hood.
Don't have a candy thermometer? You can use the temp gun to monitor you cooking oil when frying hush puppies.

Back to trouble shooting...

If the temperature of the hoses is drastically lower than the temperature of the block and heads then you're not moving water. Check the lower hose to make sure it's not getting sucked closed when the engine is revved. Sometimes it's hard to see so you need to lay hands on it. Just don't get your arm caught in the belts or fan.

If the upper hose is drastically cooler than the thermostat housing and top of the water pump you know the thermostat isn't opening.
Engines without thermostats will sometimes move coolant too quickly. That doesn't allow the coolant to stay in the radiator long enough to lose temperature. You can spot that when the radiator temps drop smoothly across the radiator but don't change by more than 15 degrees or so.

If you want to know why something doesn't work you need to find out what part isn't working. When that's a cooling system you must know the temperatures you're dealing with. Without that basic info it's all guesswork.

Have a problem? Want help?
1) Get a temp gun.
2) Get numbers.
3) Get back with us.

Posted By: bdusted440

Re: REBUILT 440 ENGINE overheats - HELP. - 10/08/13 01:01 AM

Quote:

I got this rebuilt 440 hp .030 engine ---
Fires up runs great. BUT under normal
driving conditions she overheats - temp goes thru the roof.

Tried changing the water pump and the thermostat had no effect.

The radiator is hot on the bottom and cold at the top.

TOOK the thermostat completely out and temp stays at 170 degrees -
but I know that is not the correct solution.

What is going on?

you already answered your question.cold at top hot at bottom =radiator flow problem. have it flow checked and quit guessing. Oh and get a temp gun it helps speed the process.And the fact it runs 170 without the t-stat also points to the radiator.Also buy a service manual. It gives you step by step diag.

Posted By: Challenger 1

Re: REBUILT 440 ENGINE overheats - HELP. - 10/08/13 01:06 AM

Quote:

Quote:

I got this rebuilt 440 hp .030 engine ---
Fires up runs great. BUT under normal
driving conditions she overheats - temp goes thru the roof.

Tried changing the water pump and the thermostat had no effect.

The radiator is hot on the bottom and cold at the top.

TOOK the thermostat completely out and temp stays at 170 degrees -
but I know that is not the correct solution.

What is going on?

you already answered your question.cold at top hot at bottom =radiator flow problem. have it flow checked and quit guessing. Oh and get a temp gun it helps speed the process.And the fact it runs 170 without the t-stat also points to the radiator.Also buy a service manual. It gives you step by step diag.

He's got a brand new 26" radiator in it from Year One in it.

Posted By: feets

Re: REBUILT 440 ENGINE overheats - HELP. - 10/08/13 01:51 AM

Quote:

He's got a brand new 26" radiator in it from Year One in it.

Goodyear makes perfectly round truck tires too.

Without getting REAL TEMPERATURE NUMBERS from different parts of his system he is wasting our time, his time, and his money.

This morning I suggested he read the post about getting real numbers. Apparently, he thought it best to go spend money on a new pump that isn't going to solve his problems.
If he spent that money on a tool like, I dunno, maybe a temp gun he would have his solution by now.

I don't mean to be nasty about it but staring at it and scratching his head isn't going to fix it. Lots of people are willing to help but we can't get started without knowing where the problem is.

The problem is temperature but he won't tell us what the temperatures are.

Posted By: v8punch

Re: REBUILT 440 ENGINE overheats - HELP. - 10/08/13 02:08 AM

Are you sure if engine was machined and assembled with correct clearance?
If it's tight, temperature goes up.

Carburetor is no lean? If it's lean, temperature goes up.

Posted By: Challenger 1

Re: REBUILT 440 ENGINE overheats - HELP. - 10/08/13 02:17 AM

Quote:

Quote:

He's got a brand new 26" radiator in it from Year One in it.

Goodyear makes perfectly round truck tires too.

Without getting REAL TEMPERATURE NUMBERS from different parts of his system he is wasting our time, his time, and his money.

This morning I suggested he read the post about getting real numbers. Apparently, he thought it best to go spend money on a new pump that isn't going to solve his problems.
If he spent that money on a tool like, I dunno, maybe a temp gun he would have his solution by now.

I don't mean to be nasty about it but staring at it and scratching his head isn't going to fix it. Lots of people are willing to help but we can't get started without knowing where the problem is.

The problem is temperature but he won't tell us what the temperatures are.

Goodyear does??

Either way I think it's safe to say the radiator is good at this point and not restricted was my point.

Posted By: SomeCarGuy

Re: REBUILT 440 ENGINE overheats - HELP. - 10/08/13 02:39 AM

Since it runs at 170, why not let the next guy deal with it? It is a flip afterall.

Posted By: HotRodRailroader

Re: REBUILT 440 ENGINE overheats - HELP. - 10/08/13 04:11 AM

Feets helped me through my over heating problem on my 1969 RR. The IR temp gun makes a night or day difference and have since used it on other things. WELL WORTH IT!!!! Mine was a radiator but ran hot even with no stat. but I took all the readings at different times on different days and checked each cyl. temp just to make sure. There is also a test kit to check for combustion gas in your cooling system, also a great thing to have around.

Posted By: RapidRobert

Re: REBUILT 440 ENGINE overheats - HELP. - 10/08/13 11:39 AM

If no stat SOLVES the overheating then k.i.s.s. you had the misfortune of having 2 bad stats in a row (the one that was in there went bad & the new one you bought). As said you might test a new one suspended in a pot of water & bring it to a boil (candy thermometers are cheap) & dont forget the temp gun

. I push the stat open several times by hand to make sure it is free/not stuck before I check it on the stove. Holler how it turns out

Posted By: 540challenger

Re: REBUILT 440 ENGINE overheats - HELP. - 10/08/13 11:54 AM

Question on a big block can you reverse the intake gasket and block off the coolant passage i have seen that happen on other makes??

Posted By: MASSMOPAR

Re: REBUILT 440 ENGINE overheats - HELP. - 10/08/13 12:18 PM

I'm going shooting today...

thank you

Attached picture 7880039-DSC_0689.JPG

Posted By: MASSMOPAR

Re: REBUILT 440 ENGINE overheats - HELP. - 10/08/13 12:22 PM

Quote:

Since it runs at 170, why not let the next guy deal with it? It is a flip afterall.

Posted By: MASSMOPAR

Re: REBUILT 440 ENGINE overheats - HELP. - 10/08/13 12:27 PM

Quote:

If no stat SOLVES the overheating then k.i.s.s. you had the misfortune of having 2 bad stats in a row (the one that was in there went bad & the new one you bought). As said you might test a new one suspended in a pot of water & bring it to a boil (candy thermometers are cheap) & dont forget the temp gun . I push the stat open several times by hand to make sure it is free/not stuck before I check it on the stove. Holler how it turns out

The water is boiling now !

Posted By: MASSMOPAR

Re: REBUILT 440 ENGINE overheats - HELP. - 10/08/13 12:56 PM

Quote:

If no stat SOLVES the overheating then k.i.s.s. you had the misfortune of having 2 bad stats in a row (the one that was in there went bad & the new one you bought). As said you might test a new one suspended in a pot of water & bring it to a boil (candy thermometers are cheap) & dont forget the temp gun . I push the stat open several times by hand to make sure it is free/not stuck before I check it on the stove. Holler how it turns out

Stuck the old t-stat in boiling water - opens wide. I think that
rules out bad stat.

Posted By: MASSMOPAR

Re: REBUILT 440 ENGINE overheats - HELP. - 10/08/13 01:47 PM

Quote:

Are you sure if engine was machined and assembled with correct clearance?
If it's tight, temperature goes up.

Carburetor is no lean? If it's lean, temperature goes up.

Engine runs at 170 degrees without any thermostat - oil pressure is 60.

It is an after market water PUMP housing? Not sure why or if that would matter?

Attached picture 7880098-DSC_0515.JPG

Posted By: feets

Re: REBUILT 440 ENGINE overheats - HELP. - 10/08/13 02:42 PM

Quote:

It is an after market water PUMP housing? Not sure why or if that would matter?

Some of the aftermarket pump housings had a lower passage that was nearly blocked off.
That was several years ago and I believe the problem has been corrected.

HOWEVER, since your car cools fine without a stat you can rule out the pump housing. You are moving water.

Posted By: JohnRR

Re: REBUILT 440 ENGINE overheats - HELP. - 10/08/13 02:47 PM

Quote:

Since it runs at 170, why not let the next guy deal with it? It is a flip afterall.

Posted By: Performance Only

Re: REBUILT 440 ENGINE overheats - HELP. - 10/08/13 02:55 PM

Does the lower hose have a spring in it to keep it from collapsing? It might not collapse without a stat in it but it will when the coolant gets pressurized against the stat.
By the way, just in case, the spring on the thermostat gets installed down. Make sure it's not backwards.

Posted By: 62maxwgn

Re: REBUILT 440 ENGINE overheats - HELP. - 10/08/13 03:00 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Since it runs at 170, why not let the next guy deal with it? It is a flip afterall.

But,the next guy will post the same thing and we'll have to start all over again !!

Posted By: MASSMOPAR

Re: REBUILT 440 ENGINE overheats - HELP. - 10/08/13 03:03 PM

Quote:

Does the lower hose have a spring in it to keep it from collapsing? It might not collapse without a stat in it but it will when the coolant gets pressurized against the stat.
By the way, just in case, the spring on the thermostat gets installed down. Make sure it's not backwards.

No Collapsing - no spring - no backwards

Thanks

Posted By: RapidRobert

Re: REBUILT 440 ENGINE overheats - HELP. - 10/08/13 03:05 PM

OK, (1) the stat is good (opens at or near the correct rating I'm assuming). (2) The overheating vanishes when the stat is taken out. (3) it's installed correctly (spring down). It ain't making no sense. We gotta be missing something simple. I would get that temp gun

Posted By: MASSMOPAR

Re: REBUILT 440 ENGINE overheats - HELP. - 10/08/13 03:36 PM

Quote:

OK, (1) the stat is good (opens at or near the correct rating I'm assuming). (2) The overheating vanishes when the stat is taken out. (3) it's installed correctly (spring down). It ain't making no sense. We gotta be missing something simple. I would get that temp gun

The temperature is very cool on top of rad and very hot low on rad and very hot at pump housing. I'll get numbers with the gun later.

Posted By: SomeCarGuy

Re: REBUILT 440 ENGINE overheats - HELP. - 10/08/13 03:49 PM

Quote:

Question on a big block can you reverse the intake gasket and block off the coolant passage i have seen that happen on other makes??

No, BB Mopars have no water in the intake. You can block the heat riser, but that has nothing to do with water.

Posted By: feets

Re: REBUILT 440 ENGINE overheats - HELP. - 10/08/13 05:29 PM

Quote:

It is an after market water PUMP housing? Not sure why or if that would matter?

That's why the upper hose is cool. It's on the floor.

Posted By: d-150

Re: REBUILT 440 ENGINE overheats - HELP. - 10/08/13 05:34 PM

No coolant through. Intake

Posted By: minnesota guy

Re: REBUILT 440 ENGINE overheats - HELP. - 10/09/13 09:57 PM

Thermostat first. Check for cracked block issues...Do you know history on the block? How long run it w/o thermostat? If it doesnt go pst 170 degrees after 1/2 hour driving it, it is just a thermostat. in upside down.

Posted By: 68 Sat

Re: REBUILT 440 ENGINE overheats - HELP. - 10/09/13 10:50 PM

I had the exact same problem and spent a small fortune trying to fix it. At the end of the day it was the MP non adjustable advance in the distributor (sp?) that was causing my issue. I changed to a Mallory unit and solved my overheating problem instantly. The way it was explained to me was if the advance is not adjusted properly it will cause the engine to run hot. My explanantion is elementary but I hope you get the jist...good luck.

Attached picture 7881701-engine.jpg

Posted By: Challenger 1

Re: REBUILT 440 ENGINE overheats - HELP. - 10/09/13 11:09 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Facts: Both pumps/impellers turn clockwise -

Both impellers are faced the same. Neither is backwards. The blades themselves are curved the same way.

Quote:

Do ya think installing the left pump non ac will make any difference?

No. You are moving water.

I'd stick the first pump back on and follow the advice I posted on the other thread. You could have saved the time and trouble of pulling the pump.

Get an IR temp gun. Start looking for odd heat patterns.

Read that post I linked earlier.
There are no secrets in overheating issues.You can probably diagnose that thing in less than 10 minutes with a temp gun.

Not if it's a tuning problem which I'm betting it is just as long as he has a spring in the lower hose.

Another thing I would ask the OP is,
did you purge the system of air?

Did you drive the car or it just idling in the driveway when it overheated?

Posted By: Challenger 1

Re: REBUILT 440 ENGINE overheats - HELP. - 10/09/13 11:11 PM

Quote:

I had the exact same problem and spent a small fortune trying to fix it. At the end of the day it was the MP non adjustable advance in the distributor (sp?) that was causing my issue. I changed to a Mallory unit and solved my overheating problem instantly. The way it was explained to me was if the advance is not adjusted properly it will cause the engine to run hot. My explanantion is elementary but I hope you get the jist...good luck.

Yup...

Posted By: Challenger 1

Re: REBUILT 440 ENGINE overheats - HELP. - 10/09/13 11:18 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Does the lower hose have a spring in it to keep it from collapsing? It might not collapse without a stat in it but it will when the coolant gets pressurized against the stat.
By the way, just in case, the spring on the thermostat gets installed down. Make sure it's not backwards.

No Collapsing - no spring - no backwards

Thanks

How in the hell do you know when your driving down the road that the lower hose is not collapsing? if it don't have a spring inside the lower hose?. If it doesn't have a spring than that's the part of the problem!!!

Posted By: feets

Re: REBUILT 440 ENGINE overheats - HELP. - 10/09/13 11:24 PM

Quote:

Quote:

There are no secrets in overheating issues.You can probably diagnose that thing in less than 10 minutes with a temp gun.

Not if it's a tuning problem

You can diagnose that with a temp gun too. The entire cooling system will heat up properly but won't level out. Temp will drop across the radiator and there will be no crazy hot spots on the cooling system but the exhaust manifolds (and heat crossover if used) will be scorching hot.

That's when you start looking at the tune.

Posted By: Challenger 1

Re: REBUILT 440 ENGINE overheats - HELP. - 10/09/13 11:45 PM

Quote:

Quote:

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There are no secrets in overheating issues.You can probably diagnose that thing in less than 10 minutes with a temp gun.

Not if it's a tuning problem

You can diagnose that with a temp gun too. The entire cooling system will heat up properly but won't level out. Temp will drop across the radiator and there will be no crazy hot spots on the cooling system but the exhaust manifolds (and heat crossover if used) will be scorching hot.

That's when you start looking at the tune.

true! But he will have to drive the car more than 10 minutes to do that.

Posted By: DAYCLONA

Re: REBUILT 440 ENGINE overheats - HELP. - 10/10/13 04:53 AM

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I got this rebuilt 440 hp .030 engine ---
Fires up runs great. BUT under normal
driving conditions she overheats - temp goes thru the roof.

Tried changing the water pump and the thermostat had no effect.

The radiator is hot on the bottom and cold at the top.

TOOK the thermostat completely out and temp stays at 170 degrees -
but I know that is not the correct solution.

What is going on?

even if the "tune" of the ignition/carb are "off" somewhat, the "issue" with overheating with/without the thermostat opens the door for a cracked block/head, bad head gasket....simple test won't cost you anything other than time, with the thermostat correctly installed, I'd recommend you also drill an 1/8" bleed hole in the thermostats base to rid the system of trapped air when filling the system,....fill the system, when installing the radiator cap, close it fully, then back it off (open) so that it's still somewhat locked on the tangs, but not sealed/spring loaded on the seat/seal, enough to allow pressure, and some fluid to escape, start the car, heat it up to operating temp, a few revs will clear out and overflow the radiator a little until a satifactory running level is established, then drive the car (sanely) see if it overheats, if not....time for head gaskets, or casting replacements (head/s block)...

Posted By: feets

Re: REBUILT 440 ENGINE overheats - HELP. - 10/10/13 04:23 PM

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How in the hell do you know when your driving down the road that the lower hose is not collapsing? if it don't have a spring inside the lower hose?. If it doesn't have a spring than that's the part of the problem!!!

Because you rev the engine and observe the lower hose!!!

The hot rod was sucking the lower hose closed. I couldn't see it happen. However, when I revved the engine and held onto the hose I could feel the bend getting sucked flat on the back side.

I sacrificed a coat hanger and fixed the problem. It'll hold up as long as you don't run straight water.

Posted By: DAYCLONA

Re: REBUILT 440 ENGINE overheats - HELP. - 10/10/13 05:18 PM

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How in the hell do you know when your driving down the road that the lower hose is not collapsing? if it don't have a spring inside the lower hose?. If it doesn't have a spring than that's the part of the problem!!!

Because you rev the engine and observe the lower hose!!!

The hot rod was sucking the lower hose closed. I couldn't see it happen. However, when I revved the engine and held onto the hose I could feel the bend getting sucked flat on the back side.

I sacrificed a coat hanger and fixed the problem. It'll hold up as long as you don't run straight water.

Gee...I didn't see the part where he has no spring in the lower hose!

....I assumed the basics were "done", how can anybody install a lower hose without a spring?...esp new hoses today, there so thinwall/cheap

Posted By: JohnRR

Re: REBUILT 440 ENGINE overheats - HELP. - 10/10/13 05:46 PM

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How in the hell do you know when your driving down the road that the lower hose is not collapsing? if it don't have a spring inside the lower hose?. If it doesn't have a spring than that's the part of the problem!!!

Because you rev the engine and observe the lower hose!!!

The hot rod was sucking the lower hose closed. I couldn't see it happen. However, when I revved the engine and held onto the hose I could feel the bend getting sucked flat on the back side.

I sacrificed a coat hanger and fixed the problem. It'll hold up as long as you don't run straight water.

Gee...I didn't see the part where he has no spring in the lower hose! ....I assumed the basics were "done", how can anybody install a lower hose without a spring?...esp new hoses today, there so thinwall/cheap

Buying and installing a spring would cut into the bottom line

Posted By: Challenger 1

Re: REBUILT 440 ENGINE overheats - HELP. - 10/10/13 06:06 PM

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How in the hell do you know when your driving down the road that the lower hose is not collapsing? if it don't have a spring inside the lower hose?. If it doesn't have a spring than that's the part of the problem!!!

Because you rev the engine and observe the lower hose!!!

The hot rod was sucking the lower hose closed. I couldn't see it happen. However, when I revved the engine and held onto the hose I could feel the bend getting sucked flat on the back side.

I sacrificed a coat hanger and fixed the problem. It'll hold up as long as you don't run straight water.

Not the same as driving it under load. Why would you even install it the first time without a spring feets?

Posted By: Challenger 1

Re: REBUILT 440 ENGINE overheats - HELP. - 10/10/13 06:09 PM

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How in the hell do you know when your driving down the road that the lower hose is not collapsing? if it don't have a spring inside the lower hose?. If it doesn't have a spring than that's the part of the problem!!!

Because you rev the engine and observe the lower hose!!!

The hot rod was sucking the lower hose closed. I couldn't see it happen. However, when I revved the engine and held onto the hose I could feel the bend getting sucked flat on the back side.

I sacrificed a coat hanger and fixed the problem. It'll hold up as long as you don't run straight water.

Gee...I didn't see the part where he has no spring in the lower hose! ....I assumed the basics were "done", how can anybody install a lower hose without a spring?...esp new hoses today, there so thinwall/cheap

Buying and installing a spring would cut into the bottom line

So do we know for fact that the OP is going to "flip" the car?

Posted By: JohnRR

Re: REBUILT 440 ENGINE overheats - HELP. - 10/10/13 08:59 PM

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So do we know for fact that the OP is going to "flip" the car?

He is a used car dealer

Posted By: feets

Re: REBUILT 440 ENGINE overheats - HELP. - 10/10/13 10:21 PM

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Not the same as driving it under load. Why would you even install it the first time without a spring feets?

I was assured that it was not required with new hose technology. Taking that for a line of crap, I filled the system with straight water and checked it out.

A hose with the spring was not available.

Posted By: Copper Dart

Re: REBUILT 440 ENGINE overheats - HELP. - 10/10/13 11:23 PM

The part I find most confusing is the lower(inlet) section of the rad gets very hot all the way to the water pump and the upper (outlet) section is cool?
I think that's the conundrum! That just doesn't make any sense unless there's no water/coolant in the upper section of the radiator when you are checking.

On another note, I too had a timing issue. A bad vacuum advance canister on the distributor was causing the engine to produce excessive heat and would tend to overheat after cruising a few miles.

Posted By: RapidRobert

Re: REBUILT 440 ENGINE overheats - HELP. - 10/10/13 11:53 PM

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On another note, I too had a timing issue. A bad vacuum advance canister on the distributor was causing the engine to produce excessive heat and would tend to overheat after cruising a few miles.

Was it leaking (vac) & making the mixture too lean & causing it to overheat from that? On the hose spring deal I curl a coat hangar wire around a broomstick handle to form it then bend the ends inward toward the center so as to avoid puncturing the hose wall then spiral it into the lower hose & call it good

Posted By: Copper Dart

Re: REBUILT 440 ENGINE overheats - HELP. - 10/12/13 05:11 PM

Not a vacuum leak/lean issue but more of a too retarded timing issue, I'm not certain how retarded timing causes that much heat.

The spring should be the same diameter as the inside of the hose and yes, ends bent in to avoid punctures.
IMO the lower hose on a closed/sealed coolant system shouldn't collapse unless you have a considerable restriction.

Posted By: JohnRR

Re: REBUILT 440 ENGINE overheats - HELP. - 10/12/13 05:43 PM

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Not a vacuum leak/lean issue but more of a too retarded timing issue, I'm not certain how retarded timing causes that much heat.

I can't explain it but it is an issue , really shows it's ugly head when one is breaking in a cam with not enough advance. Headers tubes were turning red just off the heads on the last one I did , crank the timing up to 35 still at the same 2000 rpm and they stopped glowing red.