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Dodge/Ram Techs Some Help Please (Long)

Posted By: runnerrt

Dodge/Ram Techs Some Help Please (Long) - 08/10/13 10:15 PM

Any Dodge or Ram techs I need some help please. I was driving my 2004 Ram 2500 with 5.7 hemi to go to one of the Mopar clubs car shows today (I call it the to broke to go to the Nats show) and stopped for a stop light. Upon accelerating when the light turned green my truck died, as I was costing to the shoulder I noticed the ETC light flashing. I tried to restart and nothing but I noticed all of my gauges were down to zero except the volt gauge which was higher than normal then it to would drop to nothing and the outside temp was showing -40 when it is really about 80. Called for a tow to get it to the shop I work at. Hooked my scan tool up to find 12 codes 5 of which were pending. Most of which are showing circuit high input for 5 different sensors, and some crazy things in the freeze frame data such as ECT at -40, spark advance at -64, IAT at -64 TPS 100% and Vehicle speed at 158 mph. I am a Ford diesel tech, and my friend who works at Dodge is out of town. Any input /ideas would be appreciated. As much as I lke driving my Super Bee, I do not want to drive it to work every day until he gets back. Thanks
Posted By: 383man

Re: Dodge/Ram Techs Some Help Please (Long) - 08/10/13 10:25 PM

Before you do anything unhook the battery for about 5 minutes. Then hook it back up and see if it starts. I had a controller lock up and do that. On some if you just power it down for a few minutes and wake everything up it would then work normal and no other problems were found. I had a couple like that where Chrysler tech line told me to just let them go and dont replace anything. I will say none of them came back. Ron
Posted By: stumpy

Re: Dodge/Ram Techs Some Help Please (Long) - 08/10/13 10:27 PM

Check the battery charge. A bad battery will drive these computer vehicles crazy.
Posted By: runnerrt

Re: Dodge/Ram Techs Some Help Please (Long) - 08/10/13 11:36 PM

Quote:

Before you do anything unhook the battery for about 5 minutes. Then hook it back up and see if it starts. I had a controller lock up and do that. On some if you just power it down for a few minutes and wake everything up it would then work normal and no other problems were found. I had a couple like that where Chrysler tech line told me to just let them go and dont replace anything. I will say none of them came back. Ron

No luck the only change is now the engine light flashes with the key on.
Posted By: runnerrt

Re: Dodge/Ram Techs Some Help Please (Long) - 08/10/13 11:37 PM

Quote:

Check the battery charge. A bad battery will drive these computer vehicles crazy.

The battery was down some from sitting waiting on a tow for 2 hours but charged now, still nothing.
Posted By: runnerrt

Re: Dodge/Ram Techs Some Help Please (Long) - 08/11/13 05:57 PM

Any other ideas?
Posted By: Geezer

Re: Dodge/Ram Techs Some Help Please (Long) - 08/11/13 09:49 PM

If it is the factory original battery I would switch in a known good battery.Had 2004 and 2007 Jeeps at 2 years old batterys internally shorted but tested good and they caused strange symptoms.
Posted By: Todd

Re: Dodge/Ram Techs Some Help Please (Long) - 08/12/13 02:58 AM

Quote:

Any other ideas?


What codes does it have now after the battery disconnect?
Posted By: bdusted440

Re: Dodge/Ram Techs Some Help Please (Long) - 08/12/13 03:07 AM

etc light is the throttle body and when they puke that's the codes you get.The power and ground for several components run in series on newer trucks.
Posted By: runnerrt

Re: Dodge/Ram Techs Some Help Please (Long) - 08/12/13 03:42 AM




What codes does it have now after the battery disconnect?

I will pull them in the morning.
Posted By: runnerrt

Re: Dodge/Ram Techs Some Help Please (Long) - 08/12/13 03:46 AM

Quote:

etc light is the throttle body and when they puke that's the codes you get.The power and ground for several components run in series on newer trucks.

This seems to make sense, any way to test if this is it ?
Posted By: runnerrt

Re: Dodge/Ram Techs Some Help Please (Long) - 08/12/13 01:34 PM

Quote:


What codes does it have now after the battery disconnect?

The codes are
P0073 Ambient temp sensor circuit high input
P0113 Intake air sensor 1 circuit high input
P0118 Engine coolant temp circuit high input
P0443 Evap Control circuit
P0463 fuel level sensor A high input
P0700 Trans control system
P0891 TCM power relay sense circuit high input
Posted By: wildman340

Re: Dodge/Ram Techs Some Help Please (Long) - 08/12/13 05:42 PM

Time for a new battery.
Posted By: runnerrt

Re: Dodge/Ram Techs Some Help Please (Long) - 08/12/13 06:34 PM

Quote:

Time for a new battery.

To all the advice on a new battery it is definitly not a battery, just swapped a new full charged battery and it is the same. Live data shows ambient, coolant and intake air all at -40, tps at 100%, spark advance at -64 and not showing a RPM signal when cranking.
Posted By: Todd

Re: Dodge/Ram Techs Some Help Please (Long) - 08/12/13 08:28 PM

Unplug the crank sensor and see if the affected sensors start reading right. Have had those in the past short out and cause all kind of no start and no communication issues.
If that's not it start unplugging one 5v sensor at a time and go from there.
Does your scanner comm over the PCI bus or generic bus?
Posted By: runnerrt

Re: Dodge/Ram Techs Some Help Please (Long) - 08/12/13 10:49 PM

Quote:

Unplug the crank sensor and see if the affected sensors start reading right. Have had those in the past short out and cause all kind of no start and no communication issues.
If that's not it start unplugging one 5v sensor at a time and go from there.
Does your scanner comm over the PCI bus or generic bus?

I have unplugged all of the effected sensors and the crank sensor,with no change. I am going to try the cam sensor in a little while any others I should try? I am going to say it is the generic bus as it is just a cheapo scanner
Posted By: runnerrt

Re: Dodge/Ram Techs Some Help Please (Long) - 08/13/13 12:39 AM

Ok, I borrowed a friends good scanner and with it it brought up even more codes, they are as follows
P2016 ETC force limited power
P2111 ETC stuck open
P060B ETC A/D ground performance
P2167 APP sensor 2 max stop performance
P2116 APP sensor 2 min stop performance
P2128 APP sensor 2 circuit hi
P2123 APP sensor 1 circuit hi
On data it shows throttle position at 133% but the blade is closed.
Posted By: 383man

Re: Dodge/Ram Techs Some Help Please (Long) - 08/13/13 01:56 AM

For the Voltage high codes I would say check the grounds real close but you may have set them yourself if you unpluged the sensors or left them unplugged with the key on. The codes you said it now hs are all related to the Electronic throttle body. Make sure the throttle body has a good ground. It is nice if you have the wiring schematic so you will know which is a ground. Usually high voltage readings are a bad ground of some type. Low voltge readins can be from a shorted sensor but it does not sound like thats your problem. You may end up replacing the throttle body. Ron
Posted By: bee1971

Re: Dodge/Ram Techs Some Help Please (Long) - 08/13/13 03:00 AM

Quote:

etc light is the throttle body and when they puke that's the codes you get.The power and ground for several components run in series on newer trucks.



Mine was replaced twice under warranty - Owned the truck (2004 Hemi Sport) for seven years , only had 35,000 miles on it when I traded it in on my 2011 - Throttle Bodies and the same O2 Sensor twice was the only issue I ever had on that truck

First was a known TSB on the throttle body - I cant remember the second off hand

http://dodgeram.info/tsb/2005/14-002-05.htm
Posted By: runnerrt

Re: Dodge/Ram Techs Some Help Please (Long) - 08/13/13 05:04 PM

Quote:

For the Voltage high codes I would say check the grounds real close but you may have set them yourself if you unpluged the sensors or left them unplugged with the key on. The codes you said it now hs are all related to the Electronic throttle body. Make sure the throttle body has a good ground. It is nice if you have the wiring schematic so you will know which is a ground. Usually high voltage readings are a bad ground of some type. Low voltge readins can be from a shorted sensor but it does not sound like thats your problem. You may end up replacing the throttle body. Ron

The grounds all look good, I have a FSM I bought on CD years ago for my old truck but it does not show how to test the throttle body. I don't mind replacing it as long as I know its bad. How would I test it ?
Posted By: Todd

Re: Dodge/Ram Techs Some Help Please (Long) - 08/13/13 06:04 PM

Have you checked the APPS (pedal)?
Can you read the voltage of the sensor with the scan tool you have? If so read the voltage of APPS sensor #2 and then disconnect and see if the voltage changes or not If it stays a 3v its possible you have a bad pedal assy.
Posted By: 383man

Re: Dodge/Ram Techs Some Help Please (Long) - 08/13/13 06:19 PM

Todd is correct as its easy to forget about the pedal unit. It has sensors that tell the PCM what pedal posistion the driver wants and then the PCM will work the throttle body motor to move the throttle where it needs to go. The throttle body is not cheap and your best bet would be to have a shop diagnose it to be sure what it is. Not trying to be smart but you really need to know what your looking at to diagnose it right and not replace the wrong part. When I get one with alot of codes I pick one that makes the most sense and then diagnose that code which will usually get to fixing everything. I just dont want to see you replace the throttle body if your not sure thats it. Its tuff to try and diagnose over the internet. With the scan tool you can read the APP sensors and the TPS sensors to see just what is going on and you can acuate the throttle body motor to see if the PCM can comand it. Ron
Posted By: runnerrt

Re: Dodge/Ram Techs Some Help Please (Long) - 08/13/13 06:24 PM

Quote:

Have you checked the APPS (pedal)?
Can you read the voltage of the sensor with the scan tool you have? If so read the voltage of APPS sensor #2 and then disconnect and see if the voltage changes or not If it stays a 3v its possible you have a bad pedal assy.

I can just read it and it is at 5V both APP1 and APP2 plugged in and unpluged. the scanner has a ETC learn values test and when I run that it states APP1 did not see low voltage.
Posted By: 383man

Re: Dodge/Ram Techs Some Help Please (Long) - 08/13/13 06:30 PM

What do the APP sensors read when you move the gas pedal with them hooked up as they should change. 5 volts at rest does not sound right. Ron
Posted By: runnerrt

Re: Dodge/Ram Techs Some Help Please (Long) - 08/13/13 06:55 PM

Quote:

What do the APP sensors read when you move the gas pedal with them hooked up as they should change. 5 volts at rest does not sound right. Ron

5V at rest or depressed,plugged in or not.
Posted By: Todd

Re: Dodge/Ram Techs Some Help Please (Long) - 08/13/13 06:56 PM

Quote:

What do the APP sensors read when you move the gas pedal with them hooked up as they should change. 5 volts at rest does not sound right. Ron


Sounds like its time for a new pedal.
The voltage on sensor 1 goes in the opposite direction than sensor 2 does when the pedal is depressed.
Posted By: runnerrt

Re: Dodge/Ram Techs Some Help Please (Long) - 08/13/13 07:09 PM

Quote:

Quote:

What do the APP sensors read when you move the gas pedal with them hooked up as they should change. 5 volts at rest does not sound right. Ron


Sounds like its time for a new pedal.
The voltage on sensor 1 goes in the opposite direction than sensor 2 does when the pedal is depressed.

Could that cause IAT,ECT,Ambient,fuel sensor A all to read 5V ?
Posted By: Todd

Re: Dodge/Ram Techs Some Help Please (Long) - 08/13/13 11:41 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

What do the APP sensors read when you move the gas pedal with them hooked up as they should change. 5 volts at rest does not sound right. Ron


Sounds like its time for a new pedal.
The voltage on sensor 1 goes in the opposite direction than sensor 2 does when the pedal is depressed.

Could that cause IAT,ECT,Ambient,fuel sensor A all to read 5V ?


Get out your manual and I would start with an easy sensor to get to like the IAT. Disconnect it and ground the signal return circuit.
Look at the scan tool and see if the volts go to zero.
If it does there is a problem with the sensor.
If it stays the same, back probe the same circuit at the pcm connector with a T-pin.
May have an internal problem with the PCM.
Posted By: runnerrt

Re: Dodge/Ram Techs Some Help Please (Long) - 08/14/13 12:48 AM

I started doing the pinpoint tests for the high voltage codes and so far it looks like a PCM. I have a few more to try. Thanks for the help. Being a tech even though its Fords,I hate to send it to someone else.
Posted By: Todd

Re: Dodge/Ram Techs Some Help Please (Long) - 08/14/13 12:56 AM

I know what ya mean.
Sometimes when you get some of these hair pullers(probably why I have none left) you have to wonder why we do this for a living.
Posted By: 383man

Re: Dodge/Ram Techs Some Help Please (Long) - 08/14/13 01:29 AM

Quote:

I know what ya mean.
Sometimes when you get some of these hair pullers(probably why I have none left) you have to wonder why we do this for a living.



That is so true. I always felt like us techs who do the electrical and dianosis work were way underpaid. But I did it for about 40 years.
You might also make sure you have 5 volts at the 5 volt senors wires. And at the pedal assembly also as I had a broken wire do that before. None of the sensors were getting 5 volts on the #one 5 volt circuit because I had a open circuit in the 5 volt wire between the PCM and the first sensor that circuit fed. The PCM will still see 5 volts all the time since it has an open circuit on the 5 volt wire. If you dont get 5 volts at the sensors check it at the PCM and see what you get. If the 5 volt circuit was shorted the volts would show 0 even in the PCM. Ron
Posted By: runnerrt

Re: Dodge/Ram Techs Some Help Please (Long) - 08/16/13 12:05 AM

Put the new PCM in today, let the throttle body reset, and it fired right up. Overhead still reads -40 but ambient on the scanner was reading right. Do I have to reset the overhead somehow? Thanks for all the help on this.
Posted By: Todd

Re: Dodge/Ram Techs Some Help Please (Long) - 08/16/13 12:19 AM

Glad ya got it figured out
The over head temp should update its self. Go drive it.
Posted By: runnerrt

Re: Dodge/Ram Techs Some Help Please (Long) - 08/16/13 01:03 AM

Drive it I can do. Thanks
Posted By: 383man

Re: Dodge/Ram Techs Some Help Please (Long) - 08/16/13 01:10 AM

Good for you. Ron
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