Windage Tray Missing

Posted By: Sponge

Windage Tray Missing - 08/09/13 02:18 AM

What issues may a person occur if they built a Magnum Motor without a Windage Tray in the bottom end???? I will post more details and specs later tonight. I don't want to taint the reponses!

THANKS

Posted By: RapidRobert

Re: Windage Tray Missing - 08/09/13 02:42 AM

iirc the old MP spec was you gain ~15 horse at higher rpm with it.

Posted By: Michael Ecks

Re: Windage Tray Missing - 08/09/13 05:06 AM

5.2 or 5.9 ???

I've heard the 15hp gain claim on 318(5.2) and 340 engines.

Pretty sure one of my books (Larry Shepard maybe) said the tray was too close to the rotating assembly on 360(5.9) models and ended up increasing windage instead of reducing the effect.

When I have my 360 apart I plan on calculating the difference between the crank strokes and adding spacers if the oil pan allows.

Posted By: Sponge

Re: Windage Tray Missing - 08/09/13 05:29 AM

Its a 5.9 390HP Crate engine. It came without a windage tray and a low volume oil pump. I'm having low oil pressure issues at idle when warm.

Posted By: RapidRobert

Re: Windage Tray Missing - 08/09/13 05:52 AM

Quote:

I'm having low oil pressure issues at idle when warm.

Perfect candidate for a hi vol pump & on a low perf DD if the psi comes up immediately off of idle you could actually survive with it as is

Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: Windage Tray Missing - 08/09/13 06:03 AM

Most of the faster NHRA stock class SB Mopar racers don't use the stock windage trays or high pressure or high volume oil pumps, in fact they buy the stock 318 replacement pumps for the 340 and 360 motors, some even trim the bypass springs to lower the oil pressure some more

Posted By: Michael Ecks

Re: Windage Tray Missing - 08/09/13 06:22 AM

Quote:

Its a 5.9 390HP Crate engine. It came without a windage tray and a low volume oil pump. I'm having low oil pressure issues at idle when warm.

Absence or presence of a windage tray doesn't affect oil pressure. Maybe at high RPM with a high volume oil pump, and low oil levels, it might slow oil return to the pickup, but definitely not at idle. And almost every builder recommends standard (ie "low") pressure oil pumps in small blocks, even very high horse builds. Like Cab Burge said above.

There is always a chance the oil pump that was installed in it was just bad from the beginning. Such as loose internal clearances in the pump from the factory. Depending on how hard it is to drop the pan, I would try replacing it with a new standard volume pump first.

If that doesn't help it there is more than likely is a problem elsewhere in the engine. Missing or improperly installed plug in the block between the oil filter inlet/outlet passages, lifters not covering the oil galley, etc etc. better to find out where it is escaping from. A high volume pump may help if there is something like worn or loose bearing clearances more commonly seen in high mileage motors, but that is about all they are good for IMHO.

Posted By: Sponge

Re: Windage Tray Missing - 08/09/13 04:31 PM

I have the motor out. I was a bit shocked at a few when I saw the low volume pump. (Mopar advertised a High Volume Pump). I agree the windage tray should make more difference at RPM than at idle.

The Crank is machined 10/10 at the clearances seem good with no wear on the bearings. I'll keep looking today.

Posted By: JohnRR

Re: Windage Tray Missing - 08/09/13 05:56 PM

What was the oil pressure and was this from the get go or over time ?

Posted By: Sponge

Re: Windage Tray Missing - 08/09/13 07:34 PM

5 psi at idle max.
It Rapidly got worse over time

Posted By: Sponge

Re: Windage Tray Missing - 08/09/13 07:38 PM

There is lots of play in the lifter bores and noticeable wear on the lifters. Which I would say answers the low oil pressure issue. This is an older Mopar crate engine P5153475 with maybe 5000 miles!!!!!

Which leads me to a new question: What would you do with a block with excessive lifter clearances?What would be the pros/cons and costs of bushing the bores?

Posted By: JohnRR

Re: Windage Tray Missing - 08/09/13 09:58 PM

The only thing you can do is bush the lifter bores , too bad it's on your dime. I just had it done on 2 blocks, total was $875ish parts and labor PER BLOCK.

The con is the price , the pro is they will be spot o , assuming the guy doing the works knows what he is doing .

Find a Shop that has a CNC machining center like a Rottler .

Posted By: Michael Ecks

Re: Windage Tray Missing - 08/09/13 10:28 PM

well, you could go that route. To my memory there is nothing special about the crate engine bottom end. If it is mopar I don't think they are blueprinted or anything. You might consider looking for a junkyard engine with good bore wear and just swapping over the other parts from the crate. I picked up one with a spun bearing for 100$ off craigslist. Even at 140K miles you could still see the factory crosshatch on the piston bores. Might be a cheaper option.

Posted By: Sponge

Re: Windage Tray Missing - 08/10/13 06:05 AM

I'm leaning towards fixing the block I have. Fix the lifter bores and hone the cylinder walls (since its apart). I was thinking of finding a different block but by the time I pay for a core have the cylinders bored twenty over and line bore the caps I don't think it would be worth it. Stick with the EVIL I know!

Posted By: JohnRR

Re: Windage Tray Missing - 08/10/13 03:59 PM

Quote:

I'm leaning towards fixing the block I have. Fix the lifter bores and hone the cylinder walls (since its apart). I was thinking of finding a different block but by the time I pay for a core have the cylinders bored twenty over and line bore the caps I don't think it would be worth it. Stick with the EVIL I know!

Have them check the deck height , my crate hemi was tall by .010