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Battery wire from alternator to battery MELTED!!!

Posted By: Plum440

Battery wire from alternator to battery MELTED!!! - 08/03/13 12:11 AM

My volts dropped to 10, the car died and the wire from the battery to the alternator completely MELTED! Where do I start? Replace wring and hope it was just a short? Thoughts?? She was smoking like a S.O.B!

Thanks!!
Posted By: cjskotni

Re: Battery wire from alternator to battery MELTED!!! - 08/03/13 12:25 AM

I would wonder if this were a bad cable and/or a toasted alternator that would cause this. Either way, something is connecting that positive cable to ground.

Check the positive battery cable and surrounding area to see if the wire grazed something and maybe melted the insulation off and grounded. If this is the case, you should see evidence of this where it made contact and arced.

If the positive cable looks like it didn't graze a ground (just all the insulation burned off uniformly), I would be testing the alternator and making sure that positive post doesn't have a path to ground through the alternator itself. I would take it in to be tested or at least use a multimeter to see the resistance from the alternator post to ground...should be infinite (open) I would think.

Good Luck!
Posted By: cjskotni

Re: Battery wire from alternator to battery MELTED!!! - 08/03/13 12:29 AM

Oh yeah, and as an afterthought, you should add a fusible link (16 ga) or fuse (50 amp or so) on this wire to make sure this doesn't happen again!

Next time could be a fire and you may not be so lucky.
Posted By: Plum440

Re: Battery wire from alternator to battery MELTED!!! - 08/03/13 12:43 AM

Thank you! I'm going to get the alt checked and also check everything around the wire. The fusible link is a great idea and it will be getting installed. The voltage seemed to be low the last drive I took before this happened (11 - 12V).
Posted By: IMGTX

Re: Battery wire from alternator to battery MELTED!!! - 08/03/13 03:41 AM

What kind of car and have you done anything to the wiring like upgrades?

The factory old mopar wiring had a wire running from the battery, through a fusible link, through the bulkhead, through the ammeter, (branching off under the dash for other power also like the Ignition switch, headlights, etc.), back through the bulkhead and to the alternator.

A common short is the ammeter. If the car is running it can burn from the fusible link to the alternator. Also check the alternator and for a dead short in the ignition switch.

While hunting shorts it's a good idea to use a circuit breaker in place of the fusible link to save yourself money and trouble. After it's all good you can go back to a fusible link.
Posted By: Supercuda

Re: Battery wire from alternator to battery MELTED!!! - 08/03/13 04:20 AM

Voltage dropping to 10 and melted wire tells me you have a short somewhere.
Posted By: RapidRobert

Re: Battery wire from alternator to battery MELTED!!! - 08/03/13 04:23 AM

Was this (1) a direct (bypass) cable from the alt to the batt or (2) OE: alt to/thru bulkhead to the T then to/thru ammeter then to/thru bulkhead to the battery? You have a dead short in the large cable circuit (which you'll need to find/fix first). An alt could dead short internally but that is rare. EDIT Full fielding of the field circuit MAY have dont this but I'm thinking dead short as it pretty much takes a dead short (to ground) to produce that kind of fireworks which comes from ALOT of current flowing.
Posted By: Plum440

Re: Battery wire from alternator to battery MELTED!!! - 08/03/13 12:18 PM

70 Dodge Challenger with a 440.

It's all factory stock wiring and have had 0 problems for the last 5 years (since the car has been restored). The only recent update I made (6 months ago) was a quick disconnect at the battery. The voltage drop was noticed last weekend when my gauge lights started to flicker of and on and go dim...

Thanks for the help guys!!
Posted By: ahy

Re: Battery wire from alternator to battery MELTED!!! - 08/03/13 01:57 PM

If it is a re-pop stock or original harness it should already have the fusible links.

On my re-pop harness, there was poor connection at the spade terminal for the fusible link near the fender relay. It showed up after driving through rain as low voltage and cutting out with lights and wipers on. Inspection showed melted insulation at the connection. The link was still intact. I cleaned it up and installed a new link with soldered eye terminals and a #10 bolt to make the connection. No problems since.

Suggest you check every inch of wire from the alternator to the bulkhead and bulkhead back to the fender relay. Also pull the bulkhead connector itself and check for signs of heat.
Posted By: Carlen

Re: Battery wire from alternator to battery MELTED!!! - 08/04/13 01:38 AM

check the voltage regulator, bad voltage regulators burn wires up in weird places, and its a relatively cheep peice of insurance.
Posted By: Plum440

Re: Battery wire from alternator to battery MELTED!!! - 08/16/13 04:15 PM

Quote:

Oh yeah, and as an afterthought, you should add a fusible link (16 ga) or fuse (50 amp or so) on this wire to make sure this doesn't happen again!

Next time could be a fire and you may not be so lucky.




Where is the best location to put an in-line fuse??
Posted By: therocks

Re: Battery wire from alternator to battery MELTED!!! - 08/16/13 07:07 PM

I doubt a bad YR would melt the wire.Its for voltage not amps.Amps melt wires not volts unless you try to feed say 110 thru a 22 gauge then it probally wouldnt melt.Fuse depends where the wire melted.At the alt tells you it close to it.At the battery or connections there thats where the problem is.Wires typically burn the most where they short.Thats what cause them to melt.The amps go wild and they cant carry the load.When I wire I run circuit breakers.That way if you do pop one they reset.Fuse or fusiable link you are left in the cold. Rocky
Posted By: MoparforLife

Re: Battery wire from alternator to battery MELTED!!! - 08/16/13 07:18 PM

I have a question:: He says OEM wiring. If so there is no wire directly to the battery from the alternator.
Posted By: Plum440

Re: Battery wire from alternator to battery MELTED!!! - 08/16/13 07:26 PM

Once I pulled the melted harness out I noticed the wire coming off the pos battery terminal was spliced into it! Anyway, I've ordered a complete new engine harness from Year One so I can wire it up correctly. Never knew what I had was wrong because it was neatly taped and all tested fine. I've been driving it like this with no problems for 10 years.
Posted By: JohnRR

Re: Battery wire from alternator to battery MELTED!!! - 08/16/13 08:30 PM

Have you found the short yet ? Look at the bulkhead and see if one of the connections is melted ? I had the wire from the altenater melt once ... all the way up to the amp gauge ...
Posted By: Plum440

Re: Battery wire from alternator to battery MELTED!!! - 08/16/13 08:51 PM

No. The insulation is evenly burned off from the alternator terminal to the wire (spliced into the harness) coming off the battery pos. post. The bulkhead connector is not burned nor is the wiring to the ammeter under the dash. It's just very odd. The plastic on the alt batt. connection that keeps the post from grounding out on the housing is missing. It looks like this might have caused the path to ground but it could have melted away due to the heat.
Posted By: Oyvind Mopar

Re: Battery wire from alternator to battery MELTED!!! - 08/16/13 08:57 PM

Check the battery! If one cell is shorted it will make the alternator overcharge it and it could cause this situation. Try with a battery charger and see if the ammeter there peaks all the time! My
Posted By: Yancy Derringer

Re: Battery wire from alternator to battery MELTED!!! - 08/16/13 11:42 PM

CHECK THE ALTERNATOR itself. Either the insulator bushing on the output stud can break, or you can have a/ some shorted diodes or stator short will cause a direct short in the alternator
Posted By: cjskotni

Re: Battery wire from alternator to battery MELTED!!! - 08/16/13 11:53 PM

Quote:

No. The insulation is evenly burned off from the alternator terminal to the wire (spliced into the harness) coming off the battery pos. post. The bulkhead connector is not burned nor is the wiring to the ammeter under the dash. It's just very odd. The plastic on the alt batt. connection that keeps the post from grounding out on the housing is missing. It looks like this might have caused the path to ground but it could have melted away due to the heat.




It sounds like somebody in the past did a charging circuit bypass of the dash harness/ammeter. This was (is) a well-known issue with the Mopars and having a marginal charging circuit. This is a common mod to make where you take a wire directly from the alternator stud to the positive battery cable/terminal. However, this is not really safe unless you either splice in on the firewall side of the fusible link or insert another fusible link on this bypass wire. This would have helped prevent this exact issue you have now where the entire wire burns.

Is the original harness connector hooked up on the alternator stud? If so, you may just want to remove the bypass connection there and cut off the other end from the splice (wrap well) and see if the car will run/charge without the dimming lights, etc. Provided nothing else has been monkeyed with, this would be the original setup.

You can then pull a new wire from the alternator stud but I would terminate it on the starter relay with a loop connector instead of the splicing into the battery cable. Use a 8ga or better wire with a 16ga fusible link. You could go with a fuse but fusible links are better on charging circuits as they will "blow" much slower than a standard fuse if there is a consistent (as opposed to momentary spike) problem i.e. short to ground. This mod is commonly known here as the 'MAD electrical upgrade'.

I am willing to bet if you take a multimeter and measure resistance from ground to the alt stud, you will have little resistance. If you then pull off the bypass wire and measure again, probably open. This would confirm that this bypass link is indeed the problem.
Posted By: Dcuda69

Re: Battery wire from alternator to battery MELTED!!! - 08/17/13 12:43 AM

Quote:

Quote:

No. The insulation is evenly burned off from the alternator terminal to the wire (spliced into the harness) coming off the battery pos. post. The bulkhead connector is not burned nor is the wiring to the ammeter under the dash. It's just very odd. The plastic on the alt batt. connection that keeps the post from grounding out on the housing is missing. It looks like this might have caused the path to ground but it could have melted away due to the heat.






You can then pull a new wire from the alternator stud but I would terminate it on the starter relay with a loop connector instead of the splicing into the battery cable. Use a 8ga or better wire with a 16ga fusible link. You could go with a fuse but fusible links are better on charging circuits as they will "blow" much slower than a standard fuse if there is a consistent (as opposed to momentary spike) problem i.e. short to ground. This mod is commonly known here as the 'MAD electrical upgrade'.




This is what I did...8ga from the alt output with a 6" piece of 14ga fusible link goes to the pos. stud on the starter relay...been like this for years,coupled w/relays for the headlights takes a big load off the bulkhead.These are easy and inexpensive mods any driver Mopar should get

P.S. I use a dual field 60(?)amp alt from a mid 80's Diplomat...make sure the original alt output wire in the harness is disconnected from the alt.
Posted By: Plum440

Re: Battery wire from alternator to battery MELTED!!! - 08/17/13 01:53 AM

Thanks guys!! I've taken it all out and am going back with reproduction OEM harnesses from Year One and will be done with it. She has the factory fusible link but like you said, it was completely bypassed and wasn't worth a crap in this scenario. If it didn't' fry so much of my wiring I'd just do the MAD upgrade as this sounds like the way to go. Unfortunately in this case ALL the wiring was damaged in a way that it all just needs to be replaced.
Posted By: Dcuda69

Re: Battery wire from alternator to battery MELTED!!! - 08/17/13 03:28 AM

You need to do the Mad upgrade no matter what....if this is a car you plan on driving. The bulkhead is always going to be an issue
Posted By: Plum440

Re: Battery wire from alternator to battery MELTED!!! - 08/17/13 01:12 PM

I'm with you on that. I was thinking last night about just going forward and doing this mod. I like the idea of NOT sending the juice through the bulkhead!
Posted By: MoparforLife

Re: Battery wire from alternator to battery MELTED!!! - 08/18/13 05:33 PM

It is not hard to run a heavier wire through the bulk head. just drill out the original location and run a longer wire through following the original routing. It eliminates the troubles some bulkhead connection and is not really noticeable.
Posted By: Plum440

Re: Battery wire from alternator to battery MELTED!!! - 08/19/13 02:32 PM

Quote:

.make sure the original alt output wire in the harness is disconnected from the alt.




Is there ANYTHING else that needs to be disconnected to do this mod? Under dash, at start relay, etc... I am running a stock replacement alternator (65 amp) that is the externally regulated 3 wire. Thanks for your help!!
Posted By: RapidRobert

Re: Battery wire from alternator to battery MELTED!!! - 08/19/13 03:00 PM

Quote:

It is not hard to run a heavier wire through the bulk head. just drill out the original location and run a longer wire through following the original routing. It eliminates the troubles some bulkhead connection and is not really noticeable.


It's Nacho's parallel bypass. I bought a bunch of spools of stranded wire of different gauges/different colors of insulation then set the harness (65 dart) on the floor & made a new harness next to it starting from scratch one wire at a time. I'd add/solder in 1 wire/circuit then take that wire out of the old harness till the new one took shape & the old one dissappeared 1 wire at a time. NAPA brass terminals 725145 female 725147 male. this gave me the same shape on the harness routing & would for sure be cheaper than a Y1 item. Also I went 1 gauge larger (smaller #) on most of the wires (some dont need to be larger). Take pics & LABEL where each wire goes. Just me I like the ammeter & yes all connections need to be cleaned/checked & I relay all addons to the alt side rather than to the batt & I strive to keep the ammeter needle close to 12 o'clock. This is what works for me
Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: Battery wire from alternator to battery MELTED!!! - 08/19/13 11:42 PM

Check the inner nuts(both sides on both studs) on the amp gauge, they can come loose on the studs causing a open circiut, which will make the votage regulator think the battery needs all the amps the alernator can make
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