Posted By: strokerchall
440 source 1.6 aluminun roller rocker reviews WANTED - 06/13/13 04:37 AM
anyone using/used these?
440 source 1.6 aluminun roller rocker reviews WANTED
Posted By: JohnRR
Re: 440 source 1.6 aluminun roller rocker reviews WANTED - 06/13/13 04:40 AM
Posted By: Sinitro
Re: 440 source 1.6 aluminun roller rocker reviews WANTED - 06/13/13 06:33 AM
Proceed at your own risk...
Just my $0.02...
Just my $0.02...
Posted By: CompWedgeEngines
Re: 440 source 1.6 aluminun roller rocker reviews WANTED - 06/13/13 04:38 PM
Do you consider yourself a " gambling man" ? 
Posted By: JohnRR
Re: 440 source 1.6 aluminun roller rocker reviews WANTED - 06/13/13 05:12 PM
Quote:
Do you consider yourself a " gambling man" ?
MAN ???
Posted By: Stanton
Re: 440 source 1.6 aluminun roller rocker reviews WANTED - 06/13/13 10:23 PM
I can't believe John is sitting so quietly !!!!
Posted By: JohnRR
Re: 440 source 1.6 aluminun roller rocker reviews WANTED - 06/14/13 05:12 AM
Quote:
I can't believe John is sitting so quietly !!!!
I have been threatened that if I don't have first hand info that I am not allowed to point out what has happened to others that have posted their tales of woe.
Posted By: Jjs72D
Re: 440 source 1.6 aluminun roller rocker reviews WANTED - 06/14/13 07:36 AM
Without doing a search on the topic, I suppose these are prone to failures?
Posted By: imfixinmopars426
Re: 440 source 1.6 aluminun roller rocker reviews WANTED - 06/14/13 11:16 AM
Quote:
Without doing a search on the topic, I suppose these are prone to failures?
most everything is prone to fail...just how much is the question,and you only hear of the failures,and never the successful ones.hard to gauge,but my dad always told me you get what you pay for,and this I find to be true. I would hate to skimp on rockers...lots going on there!
Posted By: JohnRR
Re: 440 source 1.6 aluminun roller rocker reviews WANTED - 06/14/13 02:45 PM
Quote:
Without doing a search on the topic, I suppose these are prone to failures?
Posted By: MLR426
Re: 440 source 1.6 aluminun roller rocker reviews WANTED - 06/14/13 03:43 PM
I would believe most are skeptical with heavy spring load applications but not with street applications. We should use Ed Pink's guarantee policy once it starts you own it. There are no guarantees with any performance parts no matter who the manufacturer is.
MLR426
Posted By: JohnRR
Re: 440 source 1.6 aluminun roller rocker reviews WANTED - 06/14/13 04:35 PM
Quote:
I would believe most are skeptical with heavy spring load applications but not with street applications. We should use Ed Pink's guarantee policy once it starts you own it. There are no guarantees with any performance parts no matter who the manufacturer is.
MLR426
The issue with the alum. body offshore rockers was the spindle the roller tips turns on is brittle and is breaking. Once broken the rocker body design can/will push on the retainer and pop the valve locks off the valve, the valve drops into the cylinder and one can guess the rest.
Rockers are one place you shouldn't really skimp as even these type rockers have broken with light hyd. flat tappet spring pressures.
Posted By: Commando1
Re: 440 source 1.6 aluminun roller rocker reviews WANTED - 06/15/13 01:56 PM
Just add this to the other 100 million "Are 440 Source (fill in the blank) any good?" posts.... 
When are people going to finally wise up?
When are people going to finally wise up?
Posted By: strokerchall
Re: 440 source 1.6 aluminun roller rocker reviews WANTED - 06/15/13 08:58 PM
so i'm guessing no one has used these and can give an honest review?
I'm asking because an engine i'm buying has them installed by hughes engines
I'm asking because an engine i'm buying has them installed by hughes engines
Posted By: TooMany62s
Re: 440 source 1.6 aluminun roller rocker reviews WANTED - 06/15/13 11:39 PM
I don't know about the 1.6's but the 1.5's I had from 440 source had seriously galled the rocker shafts when I removed them at 200 or so street miles with a moderate hydraulic roller cam. Most of the roller tips felt very rough on the axles. I tossed them and replaced them with Hughes. Around 1000 miles, no problems.
Posted By: JohnRR
Re: 440 source 1.6 aluminun roller rocker reviews WANTED - 06/15/13 11:40 PM
Quote:
so i'm guessing no one has used these and can give an honest review?
I'm asking because an engine i'm buying has them installed by hughes engines
Hughes as in Dave Hughes ?
Posted By: Digger73
Re: 440 source 1.6 aluminun roller rocker reviews WANTED - 06/16/13 04:32 AM
Don't know about the 1.6 rockers but, we ran a set of 1.5s on the wife's 'Cuda. We ran them with a Crane solid roller cam for 4 years with no problems. Never any issues with the shafts or the roller tips.
The only reason we are not running them now is that the heavy spring loads caused the bottom side of the rockers to crack. This is the same thing that happened to the Crane gold rockers we first tried.
The engine by the way is a 440 Source stroker 512" that has been running and raced for 6 years now. I am sure there is a good reason to bash 440 Source stuff but, not all of us are made of money and have to try to save money where we can. If that means that I have to go against the popular ideals and buy from someone that I can afford their parts so be it. I normally don't rave on but I just felt I had to vent.
Mike (Digger73)
The only reason we are not running them now is that the heavy spring loads caused the bottom side of the rockers to crack. This is the same thing that happened to the Crane gold rockers we first tried.
The engine by the way is a 440 Source stroker 512" that has been running and raced for 6 years now. I am sure there is a good reason to bash 440 Source stuff but, not all of us are made of money and have to try to save money where we can. If that means that I have to go against the popular ideals and buy from someone that I can afford their parts so be it. I normally don't rave on but I just felt I had to vent.
Mike (Digger73)
Posted By: TooMany62s
Re: 440 source 1.6 aluminun roller rocker reviews WANTED - 06/16/13 11:02 AM
As with many parts it seems they are neither 100% good nor 100% bad. So.....
Quote:
Do you consider yourself a " gambling man" ?
Posted By: JohnRR
Re: 440 source 1.6 aluminun roller rocker reviews WANTED - 06/17/13 12:39 AM
Quote:
Don't know about the 1.6 rockers but, we ran a set of 1.5s on the wife's 'Cuda. We ran them with a Crane solid roller cam for 4 years with no problems. Never any issues with the shafts or the roller tips.
The only reason we are not running them now is that the heavy spring loads caused the bottom side of the rockers to crack. This is the same thing that happened to the Crane gold rockers we first tried.
The engine by the way is a 440 Source stroker 512" that has been running and raced for 6 years now. I am sure there is a good reason to bash 440 Source stuff but, not all of us are made of money and have to try to save money where we can. If that means that I have to go against the popular ideals and buy from someone that I can afford their parts so be it. I normally don't rave on but I just felt I had to vent.
Mike (Digger73)
A solid roller usually is speced for high spring pressure , this is not the place for a solid body unbushed alum. rocker ... or an unbushed iron rocker for that matter. If the Cranes broke I wouldn't have expected a CCJ rocker of the same design to be any better.
That said you must not have had high spring pressures because ccj rockers have failed being run on hyd. flat tappets.
Posted By: Digger73
Re: 440 source 1.6 aluminun roller rocker reviews WANTED - 06/17/13 05:57 AM
Quote:Quote:
Don't know about the 1.6 rockers but, we ran a set of 1.5s on the wife's 'Cuda. We ran them with a Crane solid roller cam for 4 years with no problems. Never any issues with the shafts or the roller tips.
The only reason we are not running them now is that the heavy spring loads caused the bottom side of the rockers to crack. This is the same thing that happened to the Crane gold rockers we first tried.
The engine by the way is a 440 Source stroker 512" that has been running and raced for 6 years now. I am sure there is a good reason to bash 440 Source stuff but, not all of us are made of money and have to try to save money where we can. If that means that I have to go against the popular ideals and buy from someone that I can afford their parts so be it. I normally don't rave on but I just felt I had to vent.
Mike (Digger73)
A solid roller usually is speced for high spring pressure , this is not the place for a solid body unbushed alum. rocker ... or an unbushed iron rocker for that matter. If the Cranes broke I wouldn't have expected a CCJ rocker of the same design to be any better.
That said you must not have had high spring pressures because ccj rockers have failed being run on hyd. flat tappets.
Not sure what is considered to be high spring pressure but the spring loads we run are 223 closed and 576 open.
Mike (Digger73)
Posted By: Pyper70
Re: 440 source 1.6 aluminun roller rocker reviews WANTED - 06/17/13 02:43 PM
I had these rockers...They sat in a box for three years...I asked around because I didnt wanna be a "gambling man". Two words were mentioned to me "needle bearings" and thats all that was said. I sold them. When you put a lot of money into a motor which I have, you don't wanna shortcut the job, save a few extra paychecks instead and get the right parts. I aimed high, I went for Harlands. I find it hard to believe a Hughes engine has CAT (440Source) rockers.
You get what you pay for...
You get what you pay for...
Posted By: JohnRR
Re: 440 source 1.6 aluminun roller rocker reviews WANTED - 06/17/13 03:04 PM
Quote:Quote:Quote:
Don't know about the 1.6 rockers but, we ran a set of 1.5s on the wife's 'Cuda. We ran them with a Crane solid roller cam for 4 years with no problems. Never any issues with the shafts or the roller tips.
The only reason we are not running them now is that the heavy spring loads caused the bottom side of the rockers to crack. This is the same thing that happened to the Crane gold rockers we first tried.
The engine by the way is a 440 Source stroker 512" that has been running and raced for 6 years now. I am sure there is a good reason to bash 440 Source stuff but, not all of us are made of money and have to try to save money where we can. If that means that I have to go against the popular ideals and buy from someone that I can afford their parts so be it. I normally don't rave on but I just felt I had to vent.
Mike (Digger73)
A solid roller usually is speced for high spring pressure , this is not the place for a solid body unbushed alum. rocker ... or an unbushed iron rocker for that matter. If the Cranes broke I wouldn't have expected a CCJ rocker of the same design to be any better.
That said you must not have had high spring pressures because ccj rockers have failed being run on hyd. flat tappets.
Not sure what is considered to be high spring pressure but the spring loads we run are 223 closed and 576 open.
Mike (Digger73)
I'm surprised those rockers lasted that long with those pressures, do you only start it and let it idle for a minute once a year?
Posted By: Digger73
Re: 440 source 1.6 aluminun roller rocker reviews WANTED - 06/17/13 06:35 PM
Quote:Quote:Quote:Quote:
Don't know about the 1.6 rockers but, we ran a set of 1.5s on the wife's 'Cuda. We ran them with a Crane solid roller cam for 4 years with no problems. Never any issues with the shafts or the roller tips.
The only reason we are not running them now is that the heavy spring loads caused the bottom side of the rockers to crack. This is the same thing that happened to the Crane gold rockers we first tried.
The engine by the way is a 440 Source stroker 512" that has been running and raced for 6 years now. I am sure there is a good reason to bash 440 Source stuff but, not all of us are made of money and have to try to save money where we can. If that means that I have to go against the popular ideals and buy from someone that I can afford their parts so be it. I normally don't rave on but I just felt I had to vent.
Mike (Digger73)
A solid roller usually is speced for high spring pressure , this is not the place for a solid body unbushed alum. rocker ... or an unbushed iron rocker for that matter. If the Cranes broke I wouldn't have expected a CCJ rocker of the same design to be any better.
That said you must not have had high spring pressures because ccj rockers have failed being run on hyd. flat tappets.
Not sure what is considered to be high spring pressure but the spring loads we run are 223 closed and 576 open.
Mike (Digger73)
I'm surprised those rockers lasted that long with those pressures, do you only start it and let it idle for a minute once a year?
No the Cranes were raced for 3 years in my rear engine dragster. Then they were used in the wife's 'Cuda both street and strip for 1 year. The 440 Source rockers were used both street and strip in the 'Cuda with the 512 for 4 years. We are of the belief that if you have the toys you have to play with them, often.
Mike (Digger73)
Posted By: CompWedgeEngines
Re: 440 source 1.6 aluminun roller rocker reviews WANTED - 06/17/13 08:30 PM
I rarely comment on here about many of these things, only because there is always someone who wants to " challenge" your findings and or experience. I'm too busy for that.
Rocker arms are a component you simply cant skimp on in a performance engine. The lure of offshore and swap meet parts will always be there. I fully understand customers budgetary constraints. I deal with it everyday. One area I always try and sternly suggest wise spending is rocker arms and lifters. Not everyone can always make the decision I would like them to. Its their engine and money, and I cant always " spend it for them". What I CAN say is, no one has ever hated me for making them hold out, or spend a little more for quality rockers. They HAVE kicked themselves in the butt for going with cheaper budget friendly versions.
Go to some race tracks over a season, and watch the cars that show up every week, are in the points hunt, and make run after run after run.These are the guys running 200-400 runs a year. Go ask what they are using, and I bet you'll find a " pattern".With that said, yes, not everyone NEEDS that type of success to simply drive their hydraulic cammed street motor, true for sure.
I dont get into the product bashing, as I understand these people have the right to sell whatever they want. Thats their deal.I also rarley will post unless I have experience with a customers parts or engines that I can comment on first hand. In this case, I have seen the damage done when they fail. If you would like a picture, let me know and I will email you. I actually turned down a job last year on a 528 engine rebuild because the customer insisted on using offshore rockers in a roller cammed bracket motor. I cant sit and watch a guy run down the local track, and wait for an engine to expire, and have everyone know I did the build, but NOT no WHY it grenaded, or had repeated issues. Sure enough, three weeks into his " great buy" rockers, kaboom. He hasnt rebuilt it yet, because he didnt have the money to re-do it after JUST re-building it. So, how much did he save?
So, my comment of " gambling man" comes from about 30 years of engine building everything from farm tractors to blown alky outlaw dragsters. Its simply a case you see a lot fo things in this business, and most often, the failures are either blown up all over the internet, or the owners are too embarrassed and you never hear a thing. I have found with several manufacters and products right here on Moparts, that this is the case. Many people who have problems wont post their bad experiences just because they dont want the attacks afterwards.Suppose I dont blame them.
So after that long babbling explanation, the OP has to determine whats important to him, and make a decision accordingly based on feedback and personal reasoning, both monetary and circumstancial....
Rocker arms are a component you simply cant skimp on in a performance engine. The lure of offshore and swap meet parts will always be there. I fully understand customers budgetary constraints. I deal with it everyday. One area I always try and sternly suggest wise spending is rocker arms and lifters. Not everyone can always make the decision I would like them to. Its their engine and money, and I cant always " spend it for them". What I CAN say is, no one has ever hated me for making them hold out, or spend a little more for quality rockers. They HAVE kicked themselves in the butt for going with cheaper budget friendly versions.
Go to some race tracks over a season, and watch the cars that show up every week, are in the points hunt, and make run after run after run.These are the guys running 200-400 runs a year. Go ask what they are using, and I bet you'll find a " pattern".With that said, yes, not everyone NEEDS that type of success to simply drive their hydraulic cammed street motor, true for sure.
I dont get into the product bashing, as I understand these people have the right to sell whatever they want. Thats their deal.I also rarley will post unless I have experience with a customers parts or engines that I can comment on first hand. In this case, I have seen the damage done when they fail. If you would like a picture, let me know and I will email you. I actually turned down a job last year on a 528 engine rebuild because the customer insisted on using offshore rockers in a roller cammed bracket motor. I cant sit and watch a guy run down the local track, and wait for an engine to expire, and have everyone know I did the build, but NOT no WHY it grenaded, or had repeated issues. Sure enough, three weeks into his " great buy" rockers, kaboom. He hasnt rebuilt it yet, because he didnt have the money to re-do it after JUST re-building it. So, how much did he save?
So, my comment of " gambling man" comes from about 30 years of engine building everything from farm tractors to blown alky outlaw dragsters. Its simply a case you see a lot fo things in this business, and most often, the failures are either blown up all over the internet, or the owners are too embarrassed and you never hear a thing. I have found with several manufacters and products right here on Moparts, that this is the case. Many people who have problems wont post their bad experiences just because they dont want the attacks afterwards.Suppose I dont blame them.
So after that long babbling explanation, the OP has to determine whats important to him, and make a decision accordingly based on feedback and personal reasoning, both monetary and circumstancial....
Posted By: Hughes
Re: 440 source 1.6 aluminun roller rocker reviews WANTED - 06/17/13 09:55 PM
We have never installed a set of 440 Source rockers on an engine.
Posted By: strokerchall
Re: 440 source 1.6 aluminun roller rocker reviews WANTED - 06/18/13 01:12 AM
Quote:
We have never installed a set of 440 Source rockers on an engine.
Hughes Engines and Machining in Arizona is the one who installed them
Posted By: jb500
Re: 440 source 1.6 aluminun roller rocker reviews WANTED - 06/18/13 03:44 AM
An oldie but a goodie.
https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/show...rue#Post6426425
They were an older version I used, but I learned the hard way. Quality costs $$$.
Some on here may never have problems and even swear by them. I cursed at them and sent them off to the scrap shredder for about $0.50 a pound...which is about their true worth.
https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/show...rue#Post6426425
They were an older version I used, but I learned the hard way. Quality costs $$$.
Some on here may never have problems and even swear by them. I cursed at them and sent them off to the scrap shredder for about $0.50 a pound...which is about their true worth.
Posted By: bron_engines
Re: 440 source 1.6 aluminun roller rocker reviews WANTED - 06/18/13 04:42 AM
I have had a few sets of those rockers. Both 1.5 and 1.6's. The last set that I used was on a 440 with a small roller cam with 240 on the seat and 600 open. I drove that car 35 miles to a car show and 35 back a few times, a summer of drag racing and putting around town and the only issue was that there was scuffing on the bottom of the shafts. When I freshened the engine for the guy that bought that car I noticed this so we installed new hard chrome shafts and let it go. The engine has only been on the Dyno since but it seems fine.
Posted By: Blakcharger440
Re: 440 source 1.6 aluminun roller rocker reviews WANTED - 06/21/13 11:00 PM
Quote:
I had these rockers...They sat in a box for three years...I asked around because I didnt wanna be a "gambling man". Two words were mentioned to me "needle bearings" and thats all that was said. I sold them. When you put a lot of money into a motor which I have, you don't wanna shortcut the job, save a few extra paychecks instead and get the right parts. I aimed high, I went for Harlands. I find it hard to believe a Hughes engine has CAT (440Source) rockers.
You get what you pay for...
I have Harland Sharp rockers and I am fairly sure they have needle bearings also? I still wouldn't use those 440source rockers though on anything.
Posted By: Pyper70
Re: 440 source 1.6 aluminun roller rocker reviews WANTED - 06/22/13 12:34 PM
They do have needle bearings....but I failed to mention Made in the USA is far superior than Made in China
Posted By: 451Mopar
Re: 440 source 1.6 aluminun roller rocker reviews WANTED - 06/22/13 05:03 PM
I have used many of the 440 source parts, but not their rocker arms. They may be OK with a mild cam with low spring pressures, but with bigger cams / higher spring pressures I went with T&D rockers on the 500" stroker (0.714" lift solid roller, #700+ open spring pressure), and bronze bushed stainless steel rockers on the 505" stroker with a 0.614" lift hydraulic roller (about #380 open pressure.)
Posted By: jb500
Re: 440 source 1.6 aluminun roller rocker reviews WANTED - 06/22/13 05:59 PM
Quote:
They do have needle bearings....but I failed to mention Made in the USA is far superior than Made in China
It's not the needles that are the main concern with these time bombs...it is the shafts. Needle bearings regardless of whose rockers they occupy require if not demand a true .8750 55ish+hrc hardened rocker shaft to live.
Posted By: JohnRR
Re: 440 source 1.6 aluminun roller rocker reviews WANTED - 06/24/13 12:32 AM
Quote:Quote:
They do have needle bearings....but I failed to mention Made in the USA is far superior than Made in China
It's not the needles that are the main concern with these time bombs...it is the shafts. Needle bearings regardless of whose rockers they occupy require if not demand a true .8750 55ish+hrc hardened rocker shaft to live.
that may be the case but the offshore rockers weak point had been the shaft the roller tip rotates on , too brittle and breaking.
Posted By: jb500
Re: 440 source 1.6 aluminun roller rocker reviews WANTED - 06/24/13 02:51 AM
Quote:Quote:Quote:
They do have needle bearings....but I failed to mention Made in the USA is far superior than Made in China
It's not the needles that are the main concern with these time bombs...it is the shafts. Needle bearings regardless of whose rockers they occupy require if not demand a true .8750 55ish+hrc hardened rocker shaft to live.
that may be the case but the offshore rockers weak point had been the shaft the roller tip rotates on , too brittle and breaking.
I was "lucky" enough not to have that problem show up as well. I just had the cages blow up due to undersized and soft rocker shafts and send all kinds of fun stuff throughout my block.