Posted By: dodgedartgt
Change valve seals w/out pulling heads? - 03/05/13 10:27 PM
How is it done, what tool or tools are needed? Engine is a mid '60's B-block, 361.
Thnx, Mike in FL
Thnx, Mike in FL
Change valve seals w/out pulling heads?
Posted By: rftroy
Re: Change valve seals w/out pulling heads? - 03/05/13 10:41 PM
You need this.
KD part number 901. $6.80 on Amazon.
You also need an air compressor, and an air fitting for the KD tool.
Screw tool into spark plug tube and turn up air pressure. This holds valves in place when you remove the valve springs.
You will also need a valve spring compressor.
KD has a couple. Model # 2078 is on Amazon for $27.92.
Bob
KD part number 901. $6.80 on Amazon.
You also need an air compressor, and an air fitting for the KD tool.
Screw tool into spark plug tube and turn up air pressure. This holds valves in place when you remove the valve springs.
You will also need a valve spring compressor.
KD has a couple. Model # 2078 is on Amazon for $27.92.
Bob
Posted By: Secret Chimp
Re: Change valve seals w/out pulling heads? - 03/05/13 10:44 PM
The air compressor trick is needlessly complex and risky - if any part of the chain fails, you've dropped a valve. The rope trick works just as well and is more reliable - feed some rope into the spark plug hole, turn the crank until it stops, etc. I did both sides of my engine this way with no trouble.
Posted By: 70Cuda383
Re: Change valve seals w/out pulling heads? - 03/05/13 10:48 PM
Quote:
The air compressor trick is needlessly complex and risky - if any part of the chain fails, you've dropped a valve. The rope trick works just as well and is more reliable - feed some rope into the spark plug hole, turn the crank until it stops, etc. I did both sides of my engine this way with no trouble.
Valid point! I did some valve work on a motor once...I'd hate to think what would have happened if the hose on the air compressor blew apart when I had the springs off!
Posted By: mickm
Re: Change valve seals w/out pulling heads? - 03/05/13 10:52 PM
if the engine is at TDC, how far can the valve drop in?
rope version is simpler, and if you don't have an air compressor, than it's a moot point, but dropping a valve inside the engine isn't an issue.
rope version is simpler, and if you don't have an air compressor, than it's a moot point, but dropping a valve inside the engine isn't an issue.
Posted By: drew72
Re: Change valve seals w/out pulling heads? - 03/05/13 10:54 PM
Quote:Quote:
The air compressor trick is needlessly complex and risky - if any part of the chain fails, you've dropped a valve. The rope trick works just as well and is more reliable - feed some rope into the spark plug hole, turn the crank until it stops, etc. I did both sides of my engine this way with no trouble.
Valid point! I did some valve work on a motor once...I'd hate to think what would have happened if the hose on the air compressor blew apart when I had the springs off!
Done it with the air compressor 100's of times. Never even heard of that process failing. If your equipment is in that bad a shape, maybe you shouldn't be working on cars.
Posted By: drew72
Re: Change valve seals w/out pulling heads? - 03/05/13 10:55 PM
Quote:
if the engine is at TDC, how far can the valve drop in?
rope version is simpler, and if you don't have an air compressor, than it's a moot point, but dropping a valve inside the engine isn't an issue.
When you use air, the piston is forced to BDC.
Posted By: mickm
Re: Change valve seals w/out pulling heads? - 03/05/13 11:10 PM
Quote:Quote:
if the engine is at TDC, how far can the valve drop in?
rope version is simpler, and if you don't have an air compressor, than it's a moot point, but dropping a valve inside the engine isn't an issue.
When you use air, the piston is forced to BDC.
if you set it at exactly TDC, like doing a leakdown test, then you are fine. of course, you do have to be precise, just like doing a leakdown.
Posted By: therocks
Re: Change valve seals w/out pulling heads? - 03/06/13 11:48 AM
Ive also done a bunch with air.I use a compression tester type hose for the air hook up.I have the KD tool and it works but if you have heavy springs its tough.Also at a PB booster can be hard to get to.My kid bought the tool that bolts to the head and levers the spring down.had the heads done on his 413 in about an hour with it.Mancini has them for about 60 bucks.I think someone had on for sale in the parts section also.Rocky
Posted By: tboomer
Re: Change valve seals w/out pulling heads? - 03/06/13 12:49 PM
Did mine with rope and the Mancini tool! 
Posted By: Gavin
Re: Change valve seals w/out pulling heads? - 03/06/13 12:52 PM
Sleazy and very effective lo-buck route is to use the rope trick, and get an old rocker arm and weld a pipe to it. Grind out the contact area to leave two arms and you have a shaft mounted removal tool for cents.....
Posted By: 70Cuda383
Re: Change valve seals w/out pulling heads? - 03/06/13 02:12 PM
Quote:Quote:Quote:
The air compressor trick is needlessly complex and risky - if any part of the chain fails, you've dropped a valve. The rope trick works just as well and is more reliable - feed some rope into the spark plug hole, turn the crank until it stops, etc. I did both sides of my engine this way with no trouble.
Valid point! I did some valve work on a motor once...I'd hate to think what would have happened if the hose on the air compressor blew apart when I had the springs off!
Done it with the air compressor 100's of times. Never even heard of that process failing. If your equipment is in that bad a shape, maybe you shouldn't be working on cars.
It's not about the quality of my equipment. it's about me having the luck that I do, and Murphy always seeming to be on "the other guy's side"
I'm the guy who does something a hundred times and never has a problem. never even imagined a problem could happen...then some wise guy comes along and says "you shouldn't do that, you might ____________" I respond with "meh, I've done it a hundred times and never had a problem" and at that exact moment, what I was just warned about happening, happens.
Posted By: drew72
Re: Change valve seals w/out pulling heads? - 03/06/13 02:25 PM
Quote:Quote:Quote:Quote:
The air compressor trick is needlessly complex and risky - if any part of the chain fails, you've dropped a valve. The rope trick works just as well and is more reliable - feed some rope into the spark plug hole, turn the crank until it stops, etc. I did both sides of my engine this way with no trouble.
Valid point! I did some valve work on a motor once...I'd hate to think what would have happened if the hose on the air compressor blew apart when I had the springs off!
Done it with the air compressor 100's of times. Never even heard of that process failing. If your equipment is in that bad a shape, maybe you shouldn't be working on cars.
It's not about the quality of my equipment. it's about me having the luck that I do, and Murphy always seeming to be on "the other guy's side"
I'm the guy who does something a hundred times and never has a problem. never even imagined a problem could happen...then some wise guy comes along and says "you shouldn't do that, you might ____________" I respond with "meh, I've done it a hundred times and never had a problem" and at that exact moment, what I was just warned about happening, happens.
Sorry, I wasn't implying anything about your equipment specifically. Just a general thought.
Posted By: scratchnfotraction
Re: Change valve seals w/out pulling heads? - 03/06/13 02:38 PM
Quote:Quote:Quote:Quote:
The air compressor trick is needlessly complex and risky - if any part of the chain fails, you've dropped a valve. The rope trick works just as well and is more reliable - feed some rope into the spark plug hole, turn the crank until it stops, etc. I did both sides of my engine this way with no trouble.
Valid point! I did some valve work on a motor once...I'd hate to think what would have happened if the hose on the air compressor blew apart when I had the springs off!
Done it with the air compressor 100's of times. Never even heard of that process failing. If your equipment is in that bad a shape, maybe you shouldn't be working on cars.
It's not about the quality of my equipment. it's about me having the luck that I do, and Murphy always seeming to be on "the other guy's side"
I'm the guy who does something a hundred times and never has a problem. never even imagined a problem could happen...then some wise guy comes along and says "you shouldn't do that, you might ____________" I respond with "meh, I've done it a hundred times and never had a problem" and at that exact moment, what I was just warned about happening, happens.
I have had the valve slip down enuff in the guide i could not get a hold of it to pull it back up.
and you got to remember to whack the retainer/spring to unlock it before your air trick. with the spring compressed,retainer stuck to valve tip,head on engine, air compressor holding valve up...
thats before I droped the valve in the cyl.after the retainer/spring was off. air holding the valve up, I lost it putting the plastic sleeve on the valve tip
someone spoke and it sliped right down below the guide.
I am a shadtree parts changer so I will use the shadtree rope in the cyl trick every time.
Posted By: buildanother
Re: Change valve seals w/out pulling heads? - 03/06/13 03:03 PM
Did alot here also, never with rope. If you try to compress first without giving top of retainer a whack first, you may get that air rushing sound as the retainer is pushing valve down with it as it's stuck to the locks. Never dropped a valve in cyl. 
Posted By: dodgedartgt
Re: Change valve seals w/out pulling heads? - 03/06/13 05:42 PM
Thnx for the replies everyone. I'm off to the parts store for the KD style compressor at the top of the list, under $20 in stock. This is a stock 361 with single springs, so I'm sure it will do the trick.
Mike in FL
Mike in FL
Posted By: therocks
Re: Change valve seals w/out pulling heads? - 03/06/13 07:35 PM
Get a small telescoping magnet also.Helps to get the locks off and on.They can be slippery.Rocky
Posted By: KnuckleDuster
Re: Change valve seals w/out pulling heads? - 03/16/13 02:35 AM
What kind of rope works best for this trick? Need to install inner springs after cam break in.
Posted By: Secret Chimp
Re: Change valve seals w/out pulling heads? - 03/16/13 04:56 AM
Quote:
Get a small telescoping magnet also.Helps to get the locks off and on.They can be slippery.Rocky
Absolutely this too. Also handy for getting them started back on easier too.
Posted By: Commando1
Re: Change valve seals w/out pulling heads? - 03/16/13 03:18 PM
Ummm... Am I the only one left that's old school?
If you need seals, you might as well pull the heads and do a valve job.
If you need seals, you might as well pull the heads and do a valve job.
Posted By: RapidRobert
Re: Change valve seals w/out pulling heads? - 03/16/13 04:40 PM
Quote:Get 2&1/2 feet of 3/8" white nylon rope at your Ace hardware store for pennies. When done store it in a grocery plastic bag to keep it clean for the next time. As said either works fine & if you have shop air it's a bit faster & watching the rotor when turning the crank will let you find TDC the fastest. EDIT You can use your compression tester hose/14mm fitting to screw in the plug hole/connect to shop air just take the shrader valve (tire valve stem valve) out of it first
What kind of rope works best for this trick?
Posted By: 67_Satellite
Re: Change valve seals w/out pulling heads? - 03/17/13 03:05 AM
Just finished up a ford 390 for a local friend. Broke it in on some old crower 80# seat #250 Open springs.I just ran the piston in question up to t.d.c.,pulled the "soft" spring and installed the e-head springs.The seal held the valve on the seat while I installed the new spring and ret/keepers.No rope,no air,no drama.