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Are all US carbs junk?
Posted By: Mike H
Are all US carbs junk? - 02/16/13 05:01 AM
Hope I didn't offend anyone with the subject, but I am annoyed as heck about the fact my prissy Holley-carbed 383 seems to require a White House summons to start sometimes.
Here's the deal. I have a freshly rebuilt stock 335hp 383. My engine guy thinks Holleys are the only carb on the planet, so its overcarbed with a 750, contoured bowls, etc. etc. Let me state up front I know zero about carbs.
The problem: If I start my prissy Challenger every week, it runs just fine. Two weeks, and it pouts and whines, blows some white smoke, but I can usually get it started. Longer than two weeks, and it pulls out its SEIU union placard and goes on a total walkout.
I hate this carb, and the tow truck it was hauled in on. My mechanic says gas is no good, and this is California gas on top of that, blah blah blah. I know about the gas. He says I just need to run it every week. Problem: I leave for 2-3 months every summer, and upon my return my simpering, pimply-faced cretin Holley isn't about to give me the time of day.
I would buy the argument about the gas, except for one minor problem; I have an 86 Toyota 22r pickup, carburated. When I return from my summer hiatus, my Toyota is as happy to see me as my Jack Russell- it fires right up like I never left. Same gas, from the same station that I gas up my spoiled-rotten Chally at. It would be nice, since I have upward of nine million dollars in this resto, to have the car show SOME gratitude and start for me.
So, obviously the Toyota carb, being only 27 years old, is engineering light-years ahead of even a new Holley. Don't mean to offend again, but that's what my anectdotal experience tells me.
If I could figure out a way to put that little Toyota carb on my 383, I would, except there are dozens of wires, lines and tubes coming off of it. I wouldn't care if my 0-60 times were 30 seconds, at least it might start.
PLease don't regale me with stories about how you let your car sit for six months, and it fires right up. Might push me into doing something nasty to my dog-breath Holley.
Posted By: 05dakota
Re: Are all US carbs junk? - 02/16/13 05:06 AM
stabil
Posted By: RobX4406
Re: Are all US carbs junk? - 02/16/13 05:08 AM
Maybe that yota carb doesn't have the rubber sealing materials in it that your holley does.
I never had issues with holleys sitting for long periods of time until the fuel formulations changed, especially with ethanol blends.
Now, holley carbs perform seppuku after sitting for a week or two without running... thanks to the crummy fuel.
Posted By: Mike H
Re: Are all US carbs junk? - 02/16/13 05:10 AM
Seppuku?
Posted By: Jim_Lusk
Re: Are all US carbs junk? - 02/16/13 05:12 AM
Quote:
stabil
For three weeks???
I have an OEM AVS on my 340. If I were to go ut right now and try to start it, it would crank and crank and crank because the float bowls are empty. It doesn't matter whether the last time I fired it up it got warm or not. Pour some fuel down the throats, it runs great (well, it might stumble while the fuel pump catches up). The fuel in that car is at least five years old (probably older).
I have heard that Holleys were less prone to the fuel evaporating so it might be leaking down the intake. Let it sit for three weeks and pull the carb for a look... (smell the oil, too)
Posted By: RobX4406
Re: Are all US carbs junk? - 02/16/13 05:12 AM
Posted By: Mike H
Re: Are all US carbs junk? - 02/16/13 05:17 AM
Jim, I have the original AFB that was on the car, a #4367 I think. Its been rebuilt and I thought of putting it on but it sounds like it would make no difference. I don't care about performance, unless starting is considered performing. Any other carbs that might be better?
Posted By: CSK
Re: Are all US carbs junk? - 02/16/13 05:18 AM
put an electric fuel pump on it
Posted By: Mike H
Re: Are all US carbs junk? - 02/16/13 05:23 AM
csk, why would I need to use an electric fuel pump? They didn't come with them. My Toyota doesn't have one. Is the problem that the gas evaporates out of the Holley but the Toyota carb is more precisely built and seals to the atmosphere?
Posted By: JoesMopar
Re: Are all US carbs junk? - 02/16/13 05:24 AM
Quote:
Let me state up front I know zero about carbs.
Here's your problem.
Well you could do a few things here. It sounds to me the bowls are dry. Check your fuel pump itself. could be back flowing when it sits. Try to purchase fuel with no ethanol. My RR I use 110 octane no ethanol not cheap either. My Holley 850 starts like a champ even after it sat for 2 months just fired it up yesterday. If that fuel is not available you can always put in an electric fuel pump. Also add the new green seals,valves and gaskets for internals in the carb. Its good for ethanol. That way when it sits the rubber is not destroyed in the carb and just let the fuel pump for a few seconds before starting and you should be on your way.
Posted By: Mike H
Re: Are all US carbs junk? - 02/16/13 05:33 AM
HotRodRailroader, I haven't heard of the green gaskets. Think they make them for the original Carter carb? Are these gaskets in a normal carb rebuild kit?
Posted By: hudsonhornet7x
Re: Are all US carbs junk? - 02/16/13 05:40 AM
Maybe your Challenger is just pissy because it has to share a garage with a toyota
.
Posted By: JoesMopar
Re: Are all US carbs junk? - 02/16/13 05:41 AM
Quote:
Maybe your Challenger is just pissy because it has to share a garage with a toyota .
Posted By: Mike H
Re: Are all US carbs junk? - 02/16/13 05:44 AM
Actually, the brat Chally has the garage to itself. My poor Toyota sits outside all year. Alone.
Posted By: rss
Re: Are all US carbs junk? - 02/16/13 05:49 AM
Quote:
I have the original AFB that was on the car, a #4367 I think.
4367 is an original Holley for a 70 383 HP with manual trans. AFB is a Carter.
Posted By: cjs69mope
Re: Are all US carbs junk? - 02/16/13 05:53 AM
Quote:
Hope I didn't offend anyone with the subject, but I am annoyed as heck about the fact my prissy Holley-carbed 383 seems to require a White House summons to start sometimes.
Here's the deal. I have a freshly rebuilt stock 335hp 383. My engine guy thinks Holleys are the only carb on the planet, so its overcarbed with a 750, contoured bowls, etc. etc. Let me state up front I know zero about carbs.
The problem: If I start my prissy Challenger every week, it runs just fine. Two weeks, and it pouts and whines, blows some white smoke, but I can usually get it started. Longer than two weeks, and it pulls out its SEIU union placard and goes on a total walkout.
I hate this carb, and the tow truck it was hauled in on. My mechanic says gas is no good, and this is California gas on top of that, blah blah blah. I know about the gas. He says I just need to run it every week. Problem: I leave for 2-3 months every summer, and upon my return my simpering, pimply-faced cretin Holley isn't about to give me the time of day.
I would buy the argument about the gas, except for one minor problem; I have an 86 Toyota 22r pickup, carburated. When I return from my summer hiatus, my Toyota is as happy to see me as my Jack Russell- it fires right up like I never left. Same gas, from the same station that I gas up my spoiled-rotten Chally at. It would be nice, since I have upward of nine million dollars in this resto, to have the car show SOME gratitude and start for me.
So, obviously the Toyota carb, being only 27 years old, is engineering light-years ahead of even a new Holley. Don't mean to offend again, but that's what my anectdotal experience tells me.
If I could figure out a way to put that little Toyota carb on my 383, I would, except there are dozens of wires, lines and tubes coming off of it. I wouldn't care if my 0-60 times were 30 seconds, at least it might start.
PLease don't regale me with stories about how you let your car sit for six months, and it fires right up. Might push me into doing something nasty to my dog-breath Holley.
I bet your one of those guys that can't start a weed whacker ether.
I watch my some of my neighbors pull their pull starts until there heads pop off they don't understand how a choke or a engine works. I just laugh. I start my 20 yr old lawn mower on 1 pull.My 500 inch Wedge with no choke Demon 850 in dead of winter anytime I want no problem.
Read more about Chokes and Carbs then take what u learn and use it.
Loose the Mechanic he can't fix the operator.
Posted By: Mike H
Re: Are all US carbs junk? - 02/16/13 06:00 AM
So, explain to me Mr. csr carb man, why my Toyota starts and my sacred Holley won't. All I want to know.
Posted By: Jim_Lusk
Re: Are all US carbs junk? - 02/16/13 06:08 AM
Quote:
So, explain to me Mr. csr carb man, why my Toyota starts and my sacred Holley won't. All I want to know.
Like I said above the Holley is probably empty of fuel and the Toyota carb is not. There could be several reasons for this, but most likely the Holley is leaking the fuel out. There are some things that need to be confirmed, but the simple solution is an electric pump. Modern fuels are more prone to evaporation so today's gas will make the problem worse.
Posted By: rss
Re: Are all US carbs junk? - 02/16/13 06:08 AM
I don't know Toyotas, but I have a hard time believing that an 86 Toyota wouldn't have an electric fuel pump. Are you certain about that?
Given the increased volatility of today's gas, an electric pump could certainly be the difference between why the truck starts and the Challenger doesn't.
Posted By: Mike H
Re: Are all US carbs junk? - 02/16/13 06:13 AM
Thanks Jim, I will do the electric fuel pump. Any recommendations?
Posted By: JohnRR
Re: Are all US carbs junk? - 02/16/13 06:24 AM
More than likely being in cali the yota carb is not vented to the atmosphere , the holley is and the gas is evaporating .
try this next time it sits for a long period of time .
Before starting it pull off the air cleaner , look down in the carb wit the choke open and pump the throttle by hand , if you see fuel squirt the bowls have fuel , if you don't see fuel then the bowls are empty and the car isn't going to start till you crank it and the fuel pump fills the carb up enough for it to start.
Posted By: SomeCarGuy
Re: Are all US carbs junk? - 02/16/13 06:26 AM
All good suggestions. The Yo might have an electric. You also need to remember that while gas is worse than when the Yo was new, it is LIGHTYEARS from what it was in 1970.
Try an insulator for the carb. That will help some. A Carter will be much worse than a Holley for fuel burn off in case you are wondering.
A 750 is in no way "overcarbing" a 383. Not by a long shot. Even on a stock engine. That's a time honored method of waking one up, I know cause I have done that.
You could solve all of this by just keeping a gas can handy and pouring some down the carb right after you check the oil. An electric pump would help, but isn't necessary.
Posted By: Jim_Lusk
Re: Are all US carbs junk? - 02/16/13 06:29 AM
Quote:
Thanks Jim, I will do the electric fuel pump. Any recommendations?
Nope, I haven't had good luck with electric pumps. We've run both a Holley pump and a Carter. The Holley started leaking and the Carter just plain quit working. There are good pumps out there, though.
Posted By: Jim_Lusk
Re: Are all US carbs junk? - 02/16/13 06:33 AM
Also, it is unlikely that a carb'd 86 has an electric pump. Looks like injection was also available on that motor, but there are electric and mechanical pumps listed for the Toyota and it's likely the mechanical was the only pump available with the carb. Easy to tell, though. turn the key to "on" and listen for the pump (looks for fuel pump fuse and relay, too).
Posted By: JoesMopar
Re: Are all US carbs junk? - 02/16/13 06:43 AM
Your Challenger wasn't designed to sit for weeks at a time. They started when new because they were driven all the time like your toyota. Learn how to start an old car that's sat for awhile or get an electric pump like everyone else has suggested.
Posted By: buildanother
Re: Are all US carbs junk? - 02/16/13 06:44 AM
The toyota probably has a carb that is sitting, on the manifold but not directly on a hot engine either, and probably also has a fully automatic choke too like the mitsus, that close automatically w/out the need to step on gas pedal. The old mopars were not designed for easy boil fuel either.
Posted By: Kern Dog
Re: Are all US carbs junk? - 02/16/13 06:54 AM
I see the frustration here, and personally, I get more frustrated with things that don't make sense to me.
You stated that you know little about carburetors, but that the old Toyota starts fine. There have been some good responses so far, but to recap:
The Toyota uses a carburetor that is sealed to the environment and the chance of fuel evaporating in diminished. It is obviously less sensitive to the modern fuels that we all buy at the pump. The 750 Holley is a great carburetor, but yours seems to run dry after a few weeks. I have dealt with this with every old car that I have had. It so happens that every old car has had either the factory late 60s/early 70s air cleaner and emissions package or an simply an open element air cleaner. To me, this one factor seems to prove the theory of fuel evaporation. The Demon 850 in my Charger poses no startup problems until about 3 1/2 weeks or so. The 67 Dart uses a 750 Holley on a 360 and acts about the same. I have ThermoQuad carbs on 3 other vehicles. They range from dry in a week to easy starting after a month of sitting.
The solution? As others have stated, the electric fuel pump is one way. Pouring fuel down the throat is cheaper though.
Posted By: DAYCLONA
Re: Are all US carbs junk? - 02/16/13 07:01 AM
As noted by many on this thread, your starting problems are more than likely the result of evaporation due to the Holley being vented,....I have mostly multicarbed cars running Holleys, when gas was good, yeah it could sit for weeks on end and start no problem, todays gas isn't even good for a week in a typical Holley fuel bowl it evaporates so fast, so rather than sit there winding the piss out of your car trying to start it, locate the tube vent on your Holley, and use a small squeeze bottle filled with gasoline to fill the bowl prior to starting, by filling the bowl thru the vent tube, 4 oz should fill it...
And it would be a good idea to set your fuel level/float, and/or confirm it's level...Holleys are the easiest carbs to tune/adjust/rebuild, get yourself a Holley tuning guide from HP Books and learn what you need to know...
Kere's one of the vents located on a Holley, connected to the primary fuel bowl
Posted By: DaytonaTurbo
Re: Are all US carbs junk? - 02/16/13 07:03 AM
Quote:
Quote:
So, explain to me Mr. csr carb man, why my Toyota starts and my sacred Holley won't. All I want to know.
Like I said above the Holley is probably empty of fuel and the Toyota carb is not. There could be several reasons for this, but most likely the Holley is leaking the fuel out. There are some things that need to be confirmed, but the simple solution is an electric pump. Modern fuels are more prone to evaporation so today's gas will make the problem worse.
The emissions carbs tended to have valves that would close so the carb bowls were not open to atmosphere when the engine was sitting. Your holley carb would not have this feature, causing the fuel to evaporate out of your carb over time. Also the carb could be slowly leaking internally. Whatever the cause, the result is empty fuel bowls in your holley after it's been sitting for a while. This means you have to do a bunch of cranking before the stock mechanical fuel pump can refill the carb bowls enough to provide fuel to fire it. Going to an electric fuel pump is a good solution. I've converted my carbed vehicles to electric fuel pump and never looked back. Just leave the key in the run position for a few seconds for the carb to refill, then pump the gas and hit the key and she fires up like you drove it yesterday.
When you go to install the electric fuel pump, there are two things to keep in mind. One, the fuel pump should be back near the tank so the fuel is pressurized for the whole run, not being sucked like the stock mechanical pump does. Second, you don't want to bolt the pump direct to your car, it needs to be isolated with rubber or foam with no bolts going through the pump body to the car. Failing to mount the pump this way will make for a noisy pump as the sound is amplified by the pump vibrating against your car.
If you check out summit's website they have a variety of pumps in the 80-100 dollar range that would suit your needs just fine. Summit, holley or carter brand pumps in that price range.
Posted By: Mattax
Re: Are all US carbs junk? - 02/16/13 01:44 PM
Quote:
so its overcarbed with a 750, contoured bowls,
stock engine, and you're looking for good manners, is not a good match for a carb with an emphasis on high speed airflow. Does it even have a choke?
Depending on the year, and whether it is a california package, an OEM carb including Holleys will have a vent that closes when the engine is off. Take a look at a CAP equiped 383 and copy that.
The Holley 4150/60 style carb has one other weakness in terms of sitting around, if the seal of the fuel bowl gasket isn't perfect, fuel will seep out that way too. For a car that sits a long time, Holley brown or blue gaskets are best, the bowl screws need to be tightened enough and evenly, and no distortion.
The biggest problem with the new fuels is the curve. It's not just the eth, but that's a big contributor. Go spill some some alcohol and you know how fast that evaporates at room temperature.
I agree with the possibility that the line from the fuel pump to the carb may loose some of its fill as well. But if the fuel bowls remain full, the engine would catch after just a crank or two (assuming there is a choke).
Quick checks. First - 4150/60 style carbs have a fuel sight plug on the side of each bowl. SO take a look to see (small pen light may be needed) if there's fuel in the bowls. It needs to almost at the level of the plug or in the middle of the window on some of the newer versions.
Take the aircleaner lid off. Work the throttle and see if fuel squirts out and into the front two barrels (holes). If not, there's no fuel in the accelerator pump, and probably none in the bowl. The acceperator pump is another place fuel can seep out on a 4150/60 model.
There's introductory explanations to carbs, afbs, oem Holleys, and emmission packages over at the imperial club dot org. Look for the Chrysler Master Technician Conference booklets from the mid 60s into the 70s.
Posted By: rbstroker
Re: Are all US carbs junk? - 02/16/13 02:37 PM
I have three holleys on my big block. No problem starting in the spring after sitting all winter.
Maybe the Toyota rice paper gaskets and exposure to nuclear radiation help out the toy.
Posted By: pnypwr
Re: Are all US carbs junk? - 02/16/13 02:45 PM
my convertible sat for 2 yrs with a 750 street avenger, elec choke. had to move it to get the snowblower out cranked it over 10 or 15 times pumped the gas 5 or 6 times cranked again...if it hits ill stop and pump the gas 5 or 6 times, if not i repeat with a 10 or 15 cranks then pump the gas. when it fires it runs rough but a steady pedal untill it levels out keeps it alive and has always worked for me even in the dead of winter. if you have white smoke coming out the pipes and its not running its flooded...hold pedal to floor and then try to start. I dont think its the carb or the fuel its more in the procedure of how your trying to start a dry carb. an elec pump could help bu you could also be asking for more of a headache...comes down to learn how to start the car when its sitting. as for the yota staring right up its a whole different animal, however when that carb messes up you wont get out of it for a 40 dollar rebuild kit...those things are a nightmare
Posted By: JohnH
Re: Are all US carbs junk? - 02/16/13 03:38 PM
Do what I did,,,, take that Holley off and replace it with a Edelbrook, That fixed my Holley problems..
Posted By: Mebsuta
Re: Are all US carbs junk? - 02/16/13 03:39 PM
IMO Holleys are pretty easy to start and Carters or Edelbrocks are a little harder if they are hot or get dry. Neither is really a big deal, even without a choke. You should see them try to start an R-3350.
If I let mine sit for a real long time, it usually means carburetor rebuild. It's an old hot rod, not a work or commuter car.
Posted By: 62maxwgn
Re: Are all US carbs junk? - 02/16/13 03:43 PM
Glad I don't have those problems,bird is 6pk,wagon 2x4's,can let both sit for 6/8 wk's and both will start in less than 6 rev's and you can get in and drive away and both have 8 psi mechanical pumps.Both have 105 low lead AV gas which has a high evaporation point but still not a problem.
Posted By: Dcuda69
Re: Are all US carbs junk? - 02/16/13 04:00 PM
Just moved my B'cuda this week...it hasn't run since Oct. BB with a 800 DP...no choke. Few cranks and a few pumps.....lit right off!! It was about 20 degrees out too! The only time I had to pour fuel in this carb to start it was when the fuel pump ( yes,it's a mechanical) got tired......new pump and no more issues.
I would go through the carb with the good gaskets as mentioned(even though I have never touched this one) and put a different pump on it
BTW..as stated that is not too much carb for a 383...I ran one similar for years before I built a stroker
Posted By: Mike H
Re: Are all US carbs junk? - 02/16/13 04:13 PM
I really appreciate all the recommendations. The Holley has no choke- the guy who built the engine was adamant about it not needing one. Like I said, if I drive it consistently, it performs well, and idles down nicely after only one minute or so of running. It's definitely not a daily driver at this point in my life- maybe that's the problem. I've done the Stabil thing when leaving for Montana. I guess part of my frustration is the huge amount of time I have spent chasing parts, doing bodywork, sandblasting parts, paying attention to all the resto details, etc etc and then ending up with a problem I hadn't anticipated.
The first carb I had on the car was a new Edelbrock, I think a 1406? It had a terrible off-idle bog that we couldn't seem to get rid of. The Holley certainly runs great and did solve that problem.
I think part of the problem is that the Toyota spoiled me. I think 86 was the last year for carbed trucks. I have 230,000 miles on that truck with CA gas and the carb has never been rebuilt. I don't really understand carbs, but I did take it apart to replace a defective float, and again to replace an altitude sensing diaphragm. But I really don't get the theory. I just R & R.
Sorry for coming across so hostile to the Holley. Just venting.
Posted By: buildanother
Re: Are all US carbs junk? - 02/16/13 04:42 PM
It's okay Mike. I'm assuming you're a younger hot rodder. I'm 54 and have been tinkering with hot rods since my first 3 carbed cuda in 1977. Don't remember having so many issues with gasoline until the newer-recent blends, and have had elec. pumps on many of my carbed street cars lately to help with startups etc.
Posted By: BSB67
Re: Are all US carbs junk? - 02/16/13 04:42 PM
The gas evaporates, its not the carbs fault. A simple solution is to buy a wash bottle (lab supply) and squirt a few ozs of fuel into the carb vent if it sits for any lenght of time. The white smoke is probably valve seal/guides.
Posted By: hooziewhatsit
Re: Are all US carbs junk? - 02/16/13 08:38 PM
Quote:
More than likely being in cali the yota carb is not vented to the atmosphere , the holley is and the gas is evaporating .
try this next time it sits for a long period of time .
Before starting it pull off the air cleaner , look down in the carb wit the choke open and pump the throttle by hand , if you see fuel squirt the bowls have fuel , if you don't see fuel then the bowls are empty and the car isn't going to start till you crank it and the fuel pump fills the carb up enough for it to start.
Once more for emphasis.
If it doesn't squirt, crank it over 10 times, then get out and check again. Repeat until you get fuel to the carb. THEN go in the car, pump the the throttle a few times and see if it starts. With no choke you may have to pump 5 or 6 times.
Once you know how long to crank BEFORE you pump the throttle, repeat it each time you start it up.
Or, install an electric fuel pump.
Posted By: jlatessa
Re: Are all US carbs junk? - 02/16/13 08:47 PM
Maybe some nice tight-fitting hose caps over the bowl vents when not driving it? Might last a little longer.....
Joe
Quote:
HotRodRailroader, I haven't heard of the green gaskets. Think they make them for the original Carter carb? Are these gaskets in a normal carb rebuild kit?
Holly has just released them within the past month or two. They are greenish blue in color and saw them at a hotrod shop.
Posted By: RobX4406
Re: Are all US carbs junk? - 02/16/13 11:42 PM
Go to any pharmacy, I go to Target, and get a FREE kids liquid medicine syringe. Use them all the time to prime empty carbs so I don't kill a battery or starter.
Squirt down the vent tube and flip throttle lever until squirter is active. Fill with 2-3 syringes and go.
Posted By: bobs66440
Re: Are all US carbs junk? - 02/16/13 11:44 PM
Installing a choke, manual or automatic, will make the whole process less aggravating. it won't solve the evaporation issue, but it will get the fuel pulled up quicker.
Posted By: B5 Bee
Re: Are all US carbs junk? - 02/17/13 12:10 AM
I always fill a Holley thru the vent after the car sits. I don't like spinning a motor over with no oil pressure while the mech pump slowly fills the bowls.
Posted By: stumpy
Re: Are all US carbs junk? - 02/17/13 12:36 AM
Spinning the motor builds oil pressure.
Posted By: Mr. T
Re: Are all US carbs junk? - 02/17/13 01:29 PM
I used to have the same starting problems when I used a 750 DP Holley on my 360. It was a fine line in giving it enough fuel to start without flooding it. My cure was to buy a QuickFuel Hotrod series carb. It is a 680 c.f.m. It comes with a electric choke,(which I have never hooked up). It has vacuum operated secondaries, which make it much harder to flood. It has worked well for me.
Posted By: Kern Dog
Re: Are all US carbs junk? - 02/17/13 07:54 PM
Quote:
Spinning the motor builds oil pressure.
It also puts additional wear on every moving part until the REAL oil pressure builds after the engine starts!
Posted By: stumpy
Re: Are all US carbs junk? - 02/17/13 08:12 PM
My motor turns over about 4 times and I have oil pressure. I don't think there is much wear there. Besides that it doesn't take a lot of pressure to lube a non running engine turning over at very low RPM.
Posted By: Jeremiah
Re: Are all US carbs junk? - 02/17/13 08:27 PM
I have a bunch of vehicles that are not driven regularly. Some have Holley (or QF), some have carters, and one has an Edelbrock. I never have much trouble starting any of them if there is fuel in the bowls. There are so many elements that could be giving you trouble it is hard to guess what it could be. If you want to call me the next time you have trouble shoot me a PM for my cell number.
Posted By: screamindriver
Re: Are all US carbs junk? - 02/17/13 10:32 PM
So after wading through the thread here's what came out...
It's a holley carb with no choke that sits for weeks at a time and does'nt fire right up..
...And this would be normal under most conditions..
Add some fresh fuel down the vent tube as others have stated and illustrated...I have a very small funnel that fits right in there and makes the job easy pouring from a small cup or can..
And now with no choke you need to pump the gas while you crank and let it fire...If it stumbles pump the gas a little to keep it going until the engine RPMs come up and will run on it's own...And that means babysitting it for a while without a high idle circuit...
I'm not a fan of adding an electric fuel pump{or a carb with no choke for that matter} for a guy who is'nt on top of all the carb troubles that come from long periods of sitting..You could easily turn the carb into an olympic torch if something is leaking or sticking with the electric pump pushing fuel...
And on that note no matter what brand or how many carbs on the engine you need to watch the carb for any signs of leaking which means leaving the air cleaner off until it's up and running...I never just jump in a vehicle after a long slumber and start cranking without checking and watching the carb{s} as it cranks...All it takes is a dried up gasket,stuck float etc...And you've got big trouble...Good Luck...
Posted By: B5 Bee
Re: Are all US carbs junk? - 02/17/13 10:50 PM
Quote:
My motor turns over about 4 times and I have oil pressure. I don't think there is much wear there. Besides that it doesn't take a lot of pressure to lube a non running engine turning over at very low RPM.
Well then, you're good to go, grind away!
Posted By: Twostick
Re: Are all US carbs junk? - 02/17/13 11:07 PM
About 90% of engine wear happens while starting.
Kevin
Posted By: stumpy
Re: Are all US carbs junk? - 02/18/13 01:42 AM
I doubt that very much. At least after 50 years as a mechanic I've never found that to be true. The wear doesn't happen while cranking it happens after it starts until it warms up.
Posted By: ERAT340
Re: Are all US carbs junk? - 02/18/13 02:35 AM
Adding fuel by hand or electric is a band aid STOP the bowls from emptying by blocking the exhaust heat passage under the carb. Problem solved.
Posted By: Pacnorthcuda
Re: Are all US carbs junk? - 02/18/13 02:44 AM
Quote:
Adding fuel by hand or electric is a band aid STOP the bowls from emptying by blocking the exhaust heat passage under the carb. Problem solved.
Ummm....the last two 440 Holley setups Ive had both had blocked crossovers and still exhibited this problem. After about two or three weeks of sitting the bowls were obviously dry. But if it was only a few days it was fine.
Posted By: SomeCarGuy
Re: Are all US carbs junk? - 02/18/13 03:49 AM
Blocking the heat riser in no way will stop this kind of problem. You can delay the effects by some amount (who knows how long) by blocking the riser and using an insulator under the carb. Still going to be dry after "x" days.
Posted By: Twostick
Re: Are all US carbs junk? - 02/18/13 04:21 AM
Quote:
I doubt that very much. At least after 50 years as a mechanic I've never found that to be true. The wear doesn't happen while cranking it happens after it starts until it warms up.
Actually I think we are both right to a degree. What I should have said was that the max wear occurs during cold start, from the time you hit the starter until it's running and the oil pressure stabilizes. From then until it reaches operating temp I believe it is still elevated but not to the degree it is on a cold dry start.
If the engine doesn't start and you continuously crank it, it stands to reason the rings will take more of a beating because the cylinders get most of their lube from the rods as they fly by so in that case I would think excessive cranking would cause the most damage.
I do know that Caterpillar sells a pre-lube pump that runs off the starter motor. You find them mostly on stationary industrial type equipment. A separate solenoid engages just the motor which drives a pump and after say 10-15 sec of full oil pressure it cranks the engine minimizing the dry start.
Kevin
Posted By: stumpy
Re: Are all US carbs junk? - 02/18/13 04:37 AM
Diesels are entirely differnt animal because of very high compresion while cranking compared to a gas motor. Apples to oranges. In the OP's case the fact that there is no gas to wash the oil from the cylinder walls ring damage from happening.There is only a minute coating of oil because the bottom of the three rings the oil wiper ring scrapes the oil off the cylinders.
Posted By: gdonovan
Re: Are all US carbs junk? - 02/18/13 11:39 AM
Quote:
put an electric fuel pump on it
Thread winner right there.
The newer fuels tend to boil out on the older cars when parked, newer (late 70s-80s) vehicles tend to have well insulated carbs with resin float bowls in some cases.
I swapped from a mech to electric in the Duster, now instead of cranking the thing to death I just switch the key on, wait 30 seconds, pump the gas twice and it barks right to life.