Posted By: Airgrabber
Were the 1970 383 A/C blue or orange? - 02/13/13 05:20 PM
I've seen the topic in regards to the 69's and understand that the A/C cars had the blue motors. Is this true for 1970 also? Thanks 
Were the 1970 383 A/C blue or orange?
Posted By: 1_WILD_RT
Re: Were the 1970 383 A/C blue or orange? - 02/13/13 05:22 PM
Two bbl is blue, four barrel is Orange...
Posted By: autoxcuda
Re: Were the 1970 383 A/C blue or orange? - 02/13/13 06:37 PM
Quote:
Two bbl is blue, four barrel is Orange...
Are 383 4bbl N codes Orange in a 70 Sport Satellite, 70 Challenger, 70 Barracuda, 70 Coronet 500, etc or blue?
In other words, non 383 4bbl with A/C in non Challenger R/T, Super Bee, Road Runner, 'Cuda models.
Would it matter above if the car was a 383 4bbl A/C with 4 speed?
Posted By: NachoRT74
Re: Were the 1970 383 A/C blue or orange? - 02/13/13 07:26 PM
Posted By: coffeeman383
Re: Were the 1970 383 A/C blue or orange? - 02/13/13 08:33 PM
What is that table from? The asterisk notes about "...engines...were found" implies some after-the-fact historical table as opposed to a Chrysler document.
Posted By: 6bblgt
Re: Were the 1970 383 A/C blue or orange? - 02/13/13 08:47 PM
In 1970 the "performance" 383HP HOLLEY 4bbl engines were orange the "non-performance" 383 CARTER 4bbl engines were blue. All were coded "N" in the VIN & E63 on the fender tag.
C-bodies were all blue - there is no such thing as a high performance 383HP engine in a '70 c-body. ALL '70 c-body 383 4bbl engines were originally equipped with a Carter AVS carb & BLUE.
The "performance" b & e-bodies with 383HP 4bbl are all orange, this includes ALL: Chargers, Super Bees, Road Runners, Challenger R/Ts and 'Cudas. ALL '70 "performance" b & e-body 383HP 4bbl engines were originally equipped with a Holley carb & ORANGE.
The "non-performance" b & e-bodies ordered with a 383 4bbl engine and a 3 or 4-speed manual transmission received the 383HP 4bbl orange engine equipped with a HOLLEY carb. Those with automatic transmissions received the Carter AVS equipped blue 383 4bbl engine.
Is it possible something was built that does NOT follow the above? SURE, but be sure to bring PROOF!
C-bodies were all blue - there is no such thing as a high performance 383HP engine in a '70 c-body. ALL '70 c-body 383 4bbl engines were originally equipped with a Carter AVS carb & BLUE.
The "performance" b & e-bodies with 383HP 4bbl are all orange, this includes ALL: Chargers, Super Bees, Road Runners, Challenger R/Ts and 'Cudas. ALL '70 "performance" b & e-body 383HP 4bbl engines were originally equipped with a Holley carb & ORANGE.
The "non-performance" b & e-bodies ordered with a 383 4bbl engine and a 3 or 4-speed manual transmission received the 383HP 4bbl orange engine equipped with a HOLLEY carb. Those with automatic transmissions received the Carter AVS equipped blue 383 4bbl engine.
Is it possible something was built that does NOT follow the above? SURE, but be sure to bring PROOF!
Posted By: G_T
Re: Were the 1970 383 A/C blue or orange? - 02/13/13 08:57 PM
Interesting... no 318 listed.
My 70 came with the original 318 - it was blue... not even sure if an orange 318 was ever made...
My 70 came with the original 318 - it was blue... not even sure if an orange 318 was ever made...
Posted By: JohnRR
Re: Were the 1970 383 A/C blue or orange? - 02/13/13 10:59 PM
Quote:
Interesting... no 318 listed.
My 70 came with the original 318 - it was blue... not even sure if an orange 318 was ever made...
No orange 318's , The table above is for the HP engines , 318 doesn't qualify within the confines of the U.S. during the muscle car era.
Posted By: Airgrabber
Re: Were the 1970 383 A/C blue or orange? - 02/13/13 11:50 PM
I still thought when you added A/C to the 70 383 Road runner line up the horse dropped from335 to 330 and the motor was then blue.
Posted By: topside
Re: Were the 1970 383 A/C blue or orange? - 02/14/13 12:26 AM
Had a '70 Satellite 383 4bbl A/C A/T wagon - bought umolested & totally original from original owner - with a turquoise engine, AVS carb & silenced (dual-snorkel) air cleaner. St. Louis car. Also had 11" drum brakes. Known history from Day 1, original everything.
Posted By: 69CoronetRT
Re: Were the 1970 383 A/C blue or orange? - 02/14/13 12:26 AM
Quote:
I still thought when you added A/C to the 70 383 Road runner line up the horse dropped from335 to 330 and the motor was then blue.
There was an 335 horse orange manual transmission a/c application in B bodies for 1970. IIRC, it was engine assembly 084.
Posted By: fastmark
Re: Were the 1970 383 A/C blue or orange? - 02/14/13 02:17 AM
I've got a 70 Challenger SE 383 4 bbl carter, 330 horse, A/C auto and it's blue. It has HP manifolds. I may have a picture.
Posted By: 6bblgt
Re: Were the 1970 383 A/C blue or orange? - 02/14/13 05:23 AM
Quote:
I've got a 70 Challenger SE 383 4 bbl carter, 330 horse, A/C auto and it's blue. It has HP manifolds. I may have a picture.
As it should!!
Posted By: 6bblgt
Re: Were the 1970 383 A/C blue or orange? - 02/14/13 05:30 AM
Quote:
Had a '70 Satellite 383 4bbl A/C A/T wagon - bought umolested & totally original from original owner - with a turquoise engine, AVS carb & silenced (dual-snorkel) air cleaner. St. Louis car. Also had 11" drum brakes. Known history from Day 1, original everything.
Old (cooked/dirty/oily) '70 & newer blue engines often look turquiose from age.
NO stock/factory turquoise engines after 1969 model year.
compare the blue ground cable to the original blue valve covers on this '70 383 2bbl
Posted By: coffeeman383
Re: Were the 1970 383 A/C blue or orange? - 02/14/13 02:29 PM
Quote:Quote:
I've got a 70 Challenger SE 383 4 bbl carter, 330 horse, A/C auto and it's blue. It has HP manifolds. I may have a picture.
As it should!!
Just when I think I understand....
I've seen both the 330 HP and 335 HP listed in a plymouth guide where it explains the RR gets the 335 because of camshaft, windage tray, etc. In the Challenger guide I only see 1 383-4bbl listed, a 335 HP (standard in Challenger R/T). So the SE Challenger is considered 'non performance' and gets the 330 HP blue engine? And an R/T AC Challanger would get the orange 335 HP (yes, I think). Is it as simple as SE is 'non-performance' just like a 383-4bbl Sport Satellite is 'non-performance'? Yet all 4 bbls are N code. It's the build sheet that gives the engine and carb (my 70 AC orange 383 is 084 engine with 036 Holly Carb). How'd I do?
Posted By: Streetwize
Re: Were the 1970 383 A/C blue or orange? - 02/14/13 02:31 PM
I had a 70 383 Charger SE 4 speed A/C car and it was Orange and had the Holley 4160 from the factory.
Posted By: 69CoronetRT
Re: Were the 1970 383 A/C blue or orange? - 02/14/13 06:45 PM
Quote:
How'd I do?
Pretty well.
Printed and online guides do not have the time or space to explan the nuances of which cars actually recieved which version of the 383-4bbl engine and there are few sweeping guidelines.
Which cars actually received the 335 HP engine varies by each year (68-69-70). Factors you may or may not have to take into account for each year include model, A/C or not and transmission. What applied in 68 may or not be the same for 69 and/or 70.
The best determination of what actually came in the car is the engine assembly code from the broadcast sheet or the code on a Lynch Road fender tag.
Posted By: 696pack
Re: Were the 1970 383 A/C blue or orange? - 02/14/13 07:31 PM
Quote:Quote:Quote:
I've got a 70 Challenger SE 383 4 bbl carter, 330 horse, A/C auto and it's blue. It has HP manifolds. I may have a picture.
As it should!!
Just when I think I understand....
I've seen both the 330 HP and 335 HP listed in a plymouth guide where it explains the RR gets the 335 because of camshaft, windage tray, etc. In the Challenger guide I only see 1 383-4bbl listed, a 335 HP (standard in Challenger R/T). So the SE Challenger is considered 'non performance' and gets the 330 HP blue engine? And an R/T AC Challanger would get the orange 335 HP (yes, I think). Is it as simple as SE is 'non-performance' just like a 383-4bbl Sport Satellite is 'non-performance'? Yet all 4 bbls are N code. It's the build sheet that gives the engine and carb (my 70 AC orange 383 is 084 engine with 036 Holly Carb). How'd I do?
In the example you give above there is a lot of potential confusion.
It is confusing in itself about the SE designation. It was an option package on the CHARGERS but it is a MODEL designation on the CHALLENGER. There is a JH29 for the SE and a JS23 for the R/T and a JS29 for the R/TSE model. The JH29 with a 383-2 would be a 290 h.p. and both the JS23 and the JS29 would have the R/T (standard) 383-4 335 h.p. engine. SO, you could have an SE model Challenger with either engine.
Now there is MORE confusion. Look closely at this:
http://www.hamtramck-historical.com/dealerships/1970DealershipDataBook-05.shtml
When you look at engine options for the Challenger with the engine pictures it shows the 383-4 TWICE and the first one has a twin snorkle air cleaner which is usually a sign of a 330 h.p. the the second picture shows the 383-4 with the unsilenced air cleaner which is usually a sign of the 335 h.p. BOTH are listed as Magnum engines and both are rated at 335 h.p. HOWEVER, the descriptions are clearly different and they are two different engines and I believe a mis print for the h.p. rating.
However AGAIN, if you go to the standard and optional equipment page and look at the available engines it only list two 383s, the 383-2 290 h.p. and the 383-4 335. h.p. obviously a mistake SOMEWHERE in all of this.
There has been difficulty identifing 383-4s since 1968 because the V.I.N. designation and the fender tag engine codes were the same regardless of it being a 330 h.p. or a 335 h.p.
Are you TOTALLY confused now?
Posted By: 6bblgt
Re: Were the 1970 383 A/C blue or orange? - 02/14/13 08:27 PM
for 1970:
If you have an original b'cast sheet (or Lynch Rd. fender tag) the 3-digit ENGINE number and 2-digit CARB number can be used to determine which engine is correct for a particular car.
383 manual - E & B-body - with ECS (N95)
orange HP engine 335hp
---------- Holley R4217-A ---------- part number 3418 537 on b'cast 37
383 manual - E & B-body - w/o ECS
orange HP engine 335hp engine on b'cast 084 with A/C & 087
---------- Holley R4367-A ---------- part number 3418 536 on b'cast 36
383 manual - E & B-body - w/o ECS & with "fresh air" (N96).
orange HP engine 335hp
---------- Holley R4736-1A ---------- part number 3512 964 on b'cast 64
383 manual - E & B-body - with ECS (N95) & with "fresh air" (N96).
orange HP engine 335hp
---------- Holley R4738-1A ---------- part number 3512 974 on b'cast 74
383 automatic - E, C & B-body - w/o A/C & w/o ECS
blue engine 330hp
---------- Carter 4736S ---------- part number 3418 538 on b'cast 38
383 automatic - E, C & B-body - with A/C (H51) & w/o ECS
blue engine 330hp
---------- Carter 4732S ---------- part number 3418 540 on b'cast 40
383 automatic - E, C & B-body - with ECS (N95)
blue engine 330hp
---------- Carter 4734S ---------- part number 3418 541 on b'cast 41
383 automatic - E & B-body - w/o A/C & w/o ECS
orange HP engine 335hp engine on b'cast 088
---------- Holley R4368-A ---------- part number 3418 542 on b'cast 42
383 automatic - E & B-body - w/o A/C & with "fresh air" (N96).
orange HP engine 335hp engine on b'cast 088
---------- Holley R4737-1A ---------- part number 3512 965 on b'cast 65
383 automatic - E & B-body - with ECS (N95)
orange HP engine 335hp
---------- Holley R4218-A ---------- part number 3418 543 on b'cast 43
383 automatic - E & B-body - with A/C (H51) & w/o ECS
orange HP engine 335hp engine on b'cast 089
---------- Holley R4369-A ---------- part number 3418 562 on b'cast 62
383 automatic - E & B-body - with ECS (N95) & with "fresh air" (N96).
orange HP engine 335hp
---------- Holley R4739-1A ---------- part number 3512 975 on b'cast 75
If you have an original b'cast sheet (or Lynch Rd. fender tag) the 3-digit ENGINE number and 2-digit CARB number can be used to determine which engine is correct for a particular car.
383 manual - E & B-body - with ECS (N95)
orange HP engine 335hp
---------- Holley R4217-A ---------- part number 3418 537 on b'cast 37
383 manual - E & B-body - w/o ECS
orange HP engine 335hp engine on b'cast 084 with A/C & 087
---------- Holley R4367-A ---------- part number 3418 536 on b'cast 36
383 manual - E & B-body - w/o ECS & with "fresh air" (N96).
orange HP engine 335hp
---------- Holley R4736-1A ---------- part number 3512 964 on b'cast 64
383 manual - E & B-body - with ECS (N95) & with "fresh air" (N96).
orange HP engine 335hp
---------- Holley R4738-1A ---------- part number 3512 974 on b'cast 74
383 automatic - E, C & B-body - w/o A/C & w/o ECS
blue engine 330hp
---------- Carter 4736S ---------- part number 3418 538 on b'cast 38
383 automatic - E, C & B-body - with A/C (H51) & w/o ECS
blue engine 330hp
---------- Carter 4732S ---------- part number 3418 540 on b'cast 40
383 automatic - E, C & B-body - with ECS (N95)
blue engine 330hp
---------- Carter 4734S ---------- part number 3418 541 on b'cast 41
383 automatic - E & B-body - w/o A/C & w/o ECS
orange HP engine 335hp engine on b'cast 088
---------- Holley R4368-A ---------- part number 3418 542 on b'cast 42
383 automatic - E & B-body - w/o A/C & with "fresh air" (N96).
orange HP engine 335hp engine on b'cast 088
---------- Holley R4737-1A ---------- part number 3512 965 on b'cast 65
383 automatic - E & B-body - with ECS (N95)
orange HP engine 335hp
---------- Holley R4218-A ---------- part number 3418 543 on b'cast 43
383 automatic - E & B-body - with A/C (H51) & w/o ECS
orange HP engine 335hp engine on b'cast 089
---------- Holley R4369-A ---------- part number 3418 562 on b'cast 62
383 automatic - E & B-body - with ECS (N95) & with "fresh air" (N96).
orange HP engine 335hp
---------- Holley R4739-1A ---------- part number 3512 975 on b'cast 75
Posted By: 6bblgt
Re: Were the 1970 383 A/C blue or orange? - 02/14/13 09:06 PM
1970 383 4bbl "non-performance" b & e-bodies would include: (orange engined 383HP cars of these models are "RARE" and would be the "insurance beaters" & "street sleepers" of the day)
Coronet Deluxe
Coronet 440
Coronet 500
Belvedere
Satellite
Sport Satellite
Barracuda
Gran Coupe
Challenger
Challenger SE
GG's "white book" US Spec. numbers:
Coronet Deluxe ~ w/383 4bbl auto = 39 (blue) & 383HP 4bbl manual = 12 (orange)
Coronet 440 ~ w/383 4bbl auto = 561 (blue) & 383HP 4bbl manual = 32 (orange)
Coronet 500 ~ w/383 4bbl auto = 909 (blue) & 383HP 4bbl manual = 107 (orange)
Belvedere ~ ??
Satellite ~ w/383 4bbl auto = 325 (blue) & 383HP 4bbl manual = 99 (orange)
Sport Satellite ~ w/383 4bbl auto = 562 (blue) & 383HP 4bbl manual = 225 (orange)
Barracuda ~ w/383 4bbl auto = 501 (blue) & 383HP 4bbl manual = 680 (orange)
Gran Coupe ~ w/383 4bbl auto = 794 (blue) & 383HP 4bbl manual = 376 (orange)
Challenger ~ w/383 4bbl auto = 1036 (blue) & 383HP 4bbl manual = 572 (orange)
Challenger SE ~ w/383 4bbl auto = 644 (blue) & 383HP 4bbl manual = 170 (orange)
Coronet Deluxe
Coronet 440
Coronet 500
Belvedere
Satellite
Sport Satellite
Barracuda
Gran Coupe
Challenger
Challenger SE
GG's "white book" US Spec. numbers:
Coronet Deluxe ~ w/383 4bbl auto = 39 (blue) & 383HP 4bbl manual = 12 (orange)
Coronet 440 ~ w/383 4bbl auto = 561 (blue) & 383HP 4bbl manual = 32 (orange)
Coronet 500 ~ w/383 4bbl auto = 909 (blue) & 383HP 4bbl manual = 107 (orange)
Belvedere ~ ??
Satellite ~ w/383 4bbl auto = 325 (blue) & 383HP 4bbl manual = 99 (orange)
Sport Satellite ~ w/383 4bbl auto = 562 (blue) & 383HP 4bbl manual = 225 (orange)
Barracuda ~ w/383 4bbl auto = 501 (blue) & 383HP 4bbl manual = 680 (orange)
Gran Coupe ~ w/383 4bbl auto = 794 (blue) & 383HP 4bbl manual = 376 (orange)
Challenger ~ w/383 4bbl auto = 1036 (blue) & 383HP 4bbl manual = 572 (orange)
Challenger SE ~ w/383 4bbl auto = 644 (blue) & 383HP 4bbl manual = 170 (orange)
Posted By: JCCuda
Re: Were the 1970 383 A/C blue or orange? - 02/14/13 10:05 PM
My parents bought new and still have a 1970 Charger not an SE just a standard Charger with a 383 Magnum 335 hp with a Holley an automatic and AC. The engine was and is orange. The chrome valve covers were added around 1974. the only thing you can see in this picture is the orange throttle cable bracket but the engine is orange.
Posted By: JCCuda
Re: Were the 1970 383 A/C blue or orange? - 02/14/13 10:07 PM
Here is the car
Posted By: 696pack
Re: Were the 1970 383 A/C blue or orange? - 02/14/13 11:47 PM
Quote:
My parents bought new and still have a 1970 Charger not an SE just a standard Charger with a 383 Magnum 335 hp with a Holley an automatic and AC. The engine was and is orange. The chrome valve covers were added around 1974. the only thing you can see in this picture is the orange throttle cable bracket but the engine is orange.
As stated in my last post, the SE on a Charger is not part of the Model it is just an option package. The Challenger it was a seperate model.
Posted By: coffeeman383
Re: Were the 1970 383 A/C blue or orange? - 02/15/13 02:21 PM
Quote:
Are you TOTALLY confused now?
No, I got it!
Posted By: JCCuda
Re: Were the 1970 383 A/C blue or orange? - 02/15/13 04:07 PM
Quote:
My parents bought new and still have a 1970 Charger not an SE just a standard Charger with a 383 Magnum 335 hp with a Holley an automatic and AC. The engine was and is orange. The chrome valve covers were added around 1974. the only thing you can see in this picture is the orange throttle cable bracket but the engine is orange.
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As stated in my last post, the SE on a Charger is not part of the Model it is just an option package. The Challenger it was a seperate model.
Calm done there skippy I wasn't questioning your expertise. I am aware that the Challenger SE is a seperate model and Charger SE is a package option. I was just stating what my parents car is and isn't.
Posted By: 696pack
Re: Were the 1970 383 A/C blue or orange? - 02/15/13 09:02 PM
Quote:
Quote:
My parents bought new and still have a 1970 Charger not an SE just a standard Charger with a 383 Magnum 335 hp with a Holley an automatic and AC. The engine was and is orange. The chrome valve covers were added around 1974. the only thing you can see in this picture is the orange throttle cable bracket but the engine is orange.
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As stated in my last post, the SE on a Charger is not part of the Model it is just an option package. The Challenger it was a seperate model.
Calm done there skippy I wasn't questioning your expertise. I am aware that the Challenger SE is a seperate model and Charger SE is a package option. I was just stating what my parents car is and isn't.
Oh, I'm calm.:D
Has nothing to do with expertise. The reason I posted that is because the SE has nothing to do with the 383 h.p. rating on a CHARGER SE but it can on a Challenger SE or R/TSE. I guess I should have been more clear.
Posted By: 1cuda
Re: Were the 1970 383 A/C blue or orange? - 02/16/13 12:44 AM
i asked a similar question a while ago-it`s a numbers r/t challenger 383 4 speed n code with no air and it is an la built car. under the orange paint is blue paint and i wondered why the blue paint is there. i believe the engine should be orange but until we strip the engine one day i won`t know for sure. it`s a great running car so it won`t be any time soon.
you can see in the pic of the vin pad the blue is there-was it rebuilt and painted blue earlier in it`s life-most probably-it just seems strange someone would do that.
all the best
frank.
you can see in the pic of the vin pad the blue is there-was it rebuilt and painted blue earlier in it`s life-most probably-it just seems strange someone would do that.
all the best
frank.
Posted By: 1_WILD_RT
Re: Were the 1970 383 A/C blue or orange? - 02/16/13 01:57 AM
My Challenger in 1995, yes it was 25 years old at that point but it had been in a barn for 18 years... It had been beat but it hadn't been apart...
