All Forged cranks drilled for pilot bushing?

Posted By: 1MYTGTX

All Forged cranks drilled for pilot bushing? - 02/07/13 02:19 AM

Are all Mopar vintage forged cranks drilled for a pilot bushing?
'72 440 with a forged crank....would it be pre drilled for the bushing for the 4 speed trans?

Posted By: roadhazard

Re: All Forged cranks drilled for pilot bushing? - 02/07/13 02:23 AM

Not all are drilled for the 4 speed bushing

Posted By: 500ciDuster

Re: All Forged cranks drilled for pilot bushing? - 02/07/13 02:29 AM

I did a 451 for a friend and the 440 crank wasn't drilled but had been spot drilled and thats the only one I've ever seen,so it did happen

Posted By: JohnRR

Re: All Forged cranks drilled for pilot bushing? - 02/07/13 03:03 AM

Quote:

Not all are drilled for the 4 speed bushing

, it should be drilled , but may not be finished to size. Napa used to sell an undersize bushing to fit but I bought what I thought was the bushing and it was not. there is a later bushing for dakotas and such that fits the convertor snout register , you may have to trim a little off the end of the input though .

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: All Forged cranks drilled for pilot bushing? - 02/07/13 03:22 AM

Forged cranks for automatic equipped cars would typically have been rough drilled, but not finished machined for a pilot bushing. I think the NAPA bushing for the semi-finished pilot hole is still available, and it's OK in a pinch, but the best solution is either to machine the crank properly or to use the roller bearing mentioned above that fits into where the torque convertor snout would go.

Posted By: 1MYTGTX

Re: All Forged cranks drilled for pilot bushing? - 02/07/13 12:28 PM

Thanks for the replies all. My pipe dream of converting to an 18 spline 4 speed might be just that....a pipe dream.

Anyone have info/part #'s on these special bushings?

Posted By: 70Cuda383

Re: All Forged cranks drilled for pilot bushing? - 02/07/13 12:53 PM

Quote:

Thanks for the replies all. My pipe dream of converting to an 18 spline 4 speed might be just that....a pipe dream.

Anyone have info/part #'s on these special bushings?

Go to rock auto. vehicle application: Dodge. 1998. Dakota. 5.2 Transmission-Manual. Pilot bushing/bearing.

costs about $10. it's a roller bearing that's inside of a giant bushing so that it fits perfectly into the size of the torque converter hub. allows you to put a manual transmission where an automatic once was, without having to remove crank to finish machine the hole.

(I believe you have to cut about an 1" off the input shaft of the trans? but I'm not sure. I put a TKO transmission behind a big block and didn't cut anything down to make it fit, and that engine was originally an automatic.

Posted By: 70Cuda383

Re: All Forged cranks drilled for pilot bushing? - 02/07/13 12:57 PM

the stock pilot bearing for any magnum series truck should be the same.

regardless, the parts store monkeys can't look anything up by saying "any magnum engine truck"

here's what the bushing/bearing looks like, and you can see that with a few quick smacks with a rubber mallet, it'll drive it home into the hub for the torque converter where it will sit nice and snug.

(this is a spare 383 I have sitting in my garage, and a new bushing for the 5.9L that's in my dakota)

Posted By: 70_roadrunner

Re: All Forged cranks drilled for pilot bushing? - 02/07/13 01:16 PM

About 3/4" will need to be taken off the input shaft of the transmission. I just stuck mine in a chop saw without removing it from the transmission. I then put a chamfer on the cut end with a Dumore grinder. I believe the transmission could can still be used with a stock setup.

Posted By: Bull1tt

Re: All Forged cranks drilled for pilot bushing? - 02/07/13 03:21 PM

I used one of these in a 383 crank and didn't have to cut the 833 input shaft.

Posted By: maud

Re: All Forged cranks drilled for pilot bushing? - 02/07/13 03:42 PM

I also have had to cut off the input shaft about an inch.

Posted By: JohnRR

Re: All Forged cranks drilled for pilot bushing? - 02/07/13 04:03 PM

Depends on how deep the crank is drilled , so need to be cut , some don't

Posted By: LaRoy Engines

Re: All Forged cranks drilled for pilot bushing? - 02/07/13 04:08 PM

Please, don't cut off the end of the input shaft of an 18 spline hemi transmission. Have the crankshaft properly prepared. In the end, it is however YOUR transmission, do as you will.

Posted By: Rhinodart

Re: All Forged cranks drilled for pilot bushing? - 02/07/13 04:31 PM

A lot of 18 spline transmissions were used behind Chivvy engines because the crappy Munchie "rock crusher" would destroy itself. These idiots ruin too many input shafts because they HAD to cut them down...

Posted By: Jim_Lusk

Re: All Forged cranks drilled for pilot bushing? - 02/07/13 04:31 PM

I have drilled out a crank installed in a motor twice (383) and I have taken a crank to a GENERAL machine shop to be done properly. The cost at the machine shop was well under $50. Even if I were using the late model bearing I would drill the crank before I cut an input shaft...

Posted By: JohnRR

Re: All Forged cranks drilled for pilot bushing? - 02/07/13 05:15 PM

Quote:

Please, don't cut off the end of the input shaft of an 18 spline hemi transmission. Have the crankshaft properly prepared. In the end, it is however YOUR transmission, do as you will.

Why ? It's not like he is cutting a ton off ,it would still work in another crank and It's not that expensive to have the end retipped should someone decide they don't want to use the dakota part for some silly reason. The eagle crank in my stroker is not sized properly for the stock Pilot bushing , I'm going to trim my trans , 18 spline A body unit I made and use the dak part ...

Posted By: 70_roadrunner

Re: All Forged cranks drilled for pilot bushing? - 02/07/13 07:20 PM

If doing a 4 speed conversion, you don't want to pull the crank. Just cut the input shaft. If the crank is already out, go ahead and have the crank drilled. On a cast crank, drilling may lead to oil seeping due to porosity in the casting.

Posted By: LaRoy Engines

Re: All Forged cranks drilled for pilot bushing? - 02/07/13 10:17 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Please, don't cut off the end of the input shaft of an 18 spline hemi transmission. Have the crankshaft properly prepared. In the end, it is however YOUR transmission, do as you will.

Why ? It's not like he is cutting a ton off ,it would still work in another crank and It's not that expensive to have the end retipped should someone decide they don't want to use the dakota part for some silly reason. The eagle crank in my stroker is not sized properly for the stock Pilot bushing , I'm going to trim my trans , 18 spline A body unit I made and use the dak part ...

Why? Personal frustration with the practice! Of the hemi 4-spd transmissions I own, two have the input shaft cut short and one is cut down to Chevy diameter. Then there are the two 23 spline input shafts cut short. I didn't cut any of them.

Its kinda like the crate motors sent to us to rebuild 'cause the original builders don't know what they are doing or won't take the time or expense to do it right.

Its okay to cut them off your transmission if you want. I'm just pleading that you may reconsider and finish the installation another way.

Posted By: 1MYTGTX

Re: All Forged cranks drilled for pilot bushing? - 02/07/13 11:50 PM

Thanks for the detailed info guys.....my dream is coming closer to reality now

Posted By: RJS

Re: All Forged cranks drilled for pilot bushing? - 02/08/13 01:26 AM

I would assume that roller bearing you guys are showing is a cheap alternative to the roller bearing that Brewers/Passion Mancini would sell???

So Chris you going to swap in a Dana too??

Posted By: 70Cuda383

Re: All Forged cranks drilled for pilot bushing? - 02/08/13 03:02 AM

It's probably the same bearing that Brewers or Mancini sells. what do they charge for it?

The bearing I posted a picture of above, is about $8 on Rock auto, but after shipping would probably be $10-12 to your door.

I think I actually picked mine up at the local advance auto for $12-15...I don't remember exactly how much now (they had to order it in from the Hub, I picked it up the next day)

Posted By: RJS

Re: All Forged cranks drilled for pilot bushing? - 02/08/13 04:04 AM

I thought it was alot more. Only $10.95

http://chucker54.stores.yahoo.net/pilotbearing.html

Posted By: SomeCarGuy

Re: All Forged cranks drilled for pilot bushing? - 02/08/13 04:15 AM

I have used the Dak bearing and cut only 1/8 or 1/4" off the shaft. Be a good idea to measure and not take off moe than you need to. I also chamfered the tip and that might have made mine work.

Posted By: JohnRR

Re: All Forged cranks drilled for pilot bushing? - 02/08/13 04:04 PM

Quote:

I have used the Dak bearing and cut only 1/8 or 1/4" off the shaft. Be a good idea to measure and not take off moe than you need to. I also chamfered the tip and that might have made mine work.

Posted By: 1MYTGTX

Re: All Forged cranks drilled for pilot bushing? - 02/09/13 12:53 AM

Quote:

I would assume that roller bearing you guys are showing is a cheap alternative to the roller bearing that Brewers/Passion Mancini would sell???

So Chris you going to swap in a Dana too??

Easy there big fella...this is a dream remember....it might be in the works though. You'll be the third to know.

Posted By: bschargerse

Re: All Forged cranks drilled for pilot bushing? - 02/09/13 02:46 AM

I call dibs on his 727

Posted By: fourgearsavoy

Re: All Forged cranks drilled for pilot bushing? - 02/10/13 03:06 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Please, don't cut off the end of the input shaft of an 18 spline hemi transmission. Have the crankshaft properly prepared. In the end, it is however YOUR transmission, do as you will.

Why ? It's not like he is cutting a ton off ,it would still work in another crank and It's not that expensive to have the end retipped should someone decide they don't want to use the dakota part for some silly reason. The eagle crank in my stroker is not sized properly for the stock Pilot bushing , I'm going to trim my trans , 18 spline A body unit I made and use the dak part ...

Why? Personal frustration with the practice! Of the hemi 4-spd transmissions I own, two have the input shaft cut short and one is cut down to Chevy diameter. Then there are the two 23 spline input shafts cut short. I didn't cut any of them.

Its kinda like the crate motors sent to us to rebuild 'cause the original builders don't know what they are doing or won't take the time or expense to do it right.

Its okay to cut them off your transmission if you want. I'm just pleading that you may reconsider and finish the installation another way.

I had to cut 1/2" off my Richmond 5-speed because the Eagle crank in my engine was not drilled deep enough

I like it when some people whack the input shaft on an 833

That way I can buy it cheaper than one that is still whole

Gus

Posted By: JohnRR

Re: All Forged cranks drilled for pilot bushing? - 02/10/13 04:55 AM

Quote:

I like it when some people whack the input shaft on an 833 That way I can buy it cheaper than one that is still whole
Gus