Moparts
4.7l into classic Mopar?
Posted By: Furious65
4.7l into classic Mopar? - 09/30/12 11:34 AM
Anyone done this swap or is it even worth playing with? Is all the computer and emission equipment just too much to deal with? See, my '05 Dakota got totaled this weekend and I'm deciding on if I'll buy it back to drop the drive train into something else. It has never given me any trouble and it moves.. er.. I mean,
moved the truck along nicely yet still pulled around 21-22mpg highway.
BTW, since everyone loves carnage, here is a pic of my baby all smashed up. I'm really going to miss my truck.
Posted By: 340duster340
Re: 4.7l into classic Mopar? - 09/30/12 12:40 PM
sorry to hear about your truck. I havent heard of any of these swaps, but you should do it.
Posted By: Chris2581
Re: 4.7l into classic Mopar? - 09/30/12 02:02 PM
Don't know what you'd might put the 4.7 in,but I think it's a greatly overlooked engine as far as swapping goes.It makes good power and is fuel efficient,one of Chrysler's best engines IMHO.
Posted By: Mr.Yuck
Re: 4.7l into classic Mopar? - 09/30/12 02:54 PM
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Don't know what you'd might put the 4.7 in,but I think it's a greatly overlooked engine as far as swapping goes.It makes good power and is fuel efficient,one of Chrysler's best engines IMHO.
Ditto the 4.7 is a good running engine. It's wroth a try.
Posted By: BorisT
Re: 4.7l into classic Mopar? - 09/30/12 05:47 PM
I would guess the engine width would be the biggest challenge in the proposed swap. I think a 4.7 swap into an A body would make for a great driver.
Posted By: jordan91
Re: 4.7l into classic Mopar? - 09/30/12 05:53 PM
DO IT!! Them 4.7's with a little work done to them sounds MEAN!
Posted By: DaytonaTurbo
Re: 4.7l into classic Mopar? - 09/30/12 06:06 PM
You will need to either go to an aftermarket EFI controller or dissect the stock wiring harness, wire it in, then send your stock ECU out to be flashed. As-is, it would not run out of the vehicle.
Posted By: Dakota_Don
Re: 4.7l into classic Mopar? - 09/30/12 07:26 PM
since u have the whole truck go for it.. but check out your timing system while the engine is out..
Posted By: Furious65
Re: 4.7l into classic Mopar? - 10/01/12 03:21 AM
Thanks to all for the encouragement. I'll have to see what the buy back cost is and go from there. Anybody know offhand what options are available to wake this engine up a bit? I know it would end up with a set of true duals, dual cats, maybe some air filter/air intake mods, and what ever else might be necessary.
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You will need to either go to an aftermarket EFI controller or dissect the stock wiring harness, wire it in, then send your stock ECU out to be flashed. As-is, it would not run out of the vehicle.
Why the flash for the ECU? If I use all the 4.7 controls and such I don't see why I would need to unless I start adding some performance mods. Am I missing something?
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since u have the whole truck go for it.. but check out your timing system while the engine is out..
Known issue or something else?
Posted By: Evil Spirit
Re: 4.7l into classic Mopar? - 10/01/12 03:53 AM
Hard to find a good 4.7 around Detroit area. Something to do with timing chain tensioners failing and causing other damage, I think.
Posted By: DaytonaTurbo
Re: 4.7l into classic Mopar? - 10/01/12 05:24 AM
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Why the flash for the ECU? If I use all the 4.7 controls and such I don't see why I would need to unless I start adding some performance mods. Am I missing something?
Are you also going to put in every scrap of wiring from the dakota? That 05 computer is expecting to communicate with the body computer, anti-theft system, gauge cluster, all the emissions equipment, etc. Take any of this stuff away and you will have problems, unless you get it flashed. 1996+ when OBD2 came around, swapping the electronics over became a nightmare. The wiring is a lot more complicated to dissect and the computer needs to be flashed to ignore all the stuff that will be missing in your new vehicle. The 95 and back stuff can be done much easier. I swapped in a 99 engine but used 95 electronics for just this reason.
Posted By: Dakota_Don
Re: 4.7l into classic Mopar? - 10/01/12 05:40 AM
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Hard to find a good 4.7 around Detroit area. Something to do with timing chain tensioners failing and causing other damage, I think.
I had em comeinto the shop with holes in the VC and the timing chain sticking out.. and since the engine is out might as well service it
Posted By: Furious65
Re: 4.7l into classic Mopar? - 10/01/12 07:53 AM
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Are you also going to put in every scrap of wiring from the dakota? That 05 computer is expecting to communicate with the body computer, anti-theft system, gauge cluster, all the emissions equipment, etc. Take any of this stuff away and you will have problems, unless you get it flashed. 1996+ when OBD2 came around, swapping the electronics over became a nightmare. The wiring is a lot more complicated to dissect and the computer needs to be flashed to ignore all the stuff that will be missing in your new vehicle. The 95 and back stuff can be done much easier. I swapped in a 99 engine but used 95 electronics for just this reason.
No, don't need to add all the extra stuff. I would love to ditch the whole emissions crap built in to the fuel tank, body, security, and whatever else isn't necessary. Who out there will flash the computer on these to eliminate the garbage?
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I had em comeinto the shop with holes in the VC and the timing chain sticking out.. and since the engine is out might as well service it
Good to know! 
Posted By: TX9H6E4CUDA
Re: 4.7l into classic Mopar? - 10/01/12 09:41 AM
If you don't mind me asking why don't you fix the truck? The damage doesn't look too horrible. If you really like the truck fix it and pocket some cash.
Posted By: Pale_Roader
Re: 4.7l into classic Mopar? - 10/01/12 12:18 PM
Its really too bad that more wasn't done with this engine. No real aftermarket, never put in cars, etc. In my quest for a quick, cool-sounding and extremely efficient V8 for my 70 Challenger i want to daily drive i kept coming back to this one. Its small, its light and being a DOHC it will sound wicked with some dedicated pipes, make very good power and kill anything else in efficiency.
Then i get into the nightmare ov install, the non-existent aftermarket, and the fact that no one knows anything about them. My final thought was basically... for the work involved i'd just install a Ford DOHC mod instead. That solves EVERY problem. The way i figure... you might as well... it'd be the same amount ov work to swap the Ford in... possibly less because the aftermarket is there to solve many ov the problems that WILL arise.
Still... for what YOU have... i say do it. I wanna see it.
Posted By: dogdays
Re: 4.7l into classic Mopar? - 10/01/12 05:05 PM
Pale Roader, have you seen a DOHC Mod motor out of the car? It's wider than it is long.
The 4.7 is a small, lightweight engine and would indeed make a fine A-body motor, or probably fit pretty well in a '30s or '40s Plymouth or Dodge. I'd say you either need to start with the entire stock wiring system and fuel tank, or else plan a different transmission and Megasquirt. That's just a guess.
Stock cams are assembled out of pieces and supply oil to the rockers. I don't know about upgrades.
R.
Posted By: Furious65
Re: 4.7l into classic Mopar? - 10/01/12 05:36 PM
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If you don't mind me asking why don't you fix the truck? The damage doesn't look too horrible. If you really like the truck fix it and pocket some cash.
The entire cab would need to be replaced. It crushed the dash down into the console and you can see the sheet metal buckled inside right above and behind the rear door. I would bet money it is more work than it is worth to fix.
Posted By: mike s
Re: 4.7l into classic Mopar? - 10/01/12 05:48 PM
2007 up engines are much better and make a ton more power.Little speed equipment other than turbo stuff and headers.Engine is a SOHC.Engines are very sensitve to the condition of the oil.Dirty oil = bad chains and pvc problems.
Not a bad deal for a driver but engine is very wide.Worst issue is probably fuel mileage but in an a body it should be quite good.
Fast might have a solution for the computer stuff.
Posted By: DaytonaTurbo
Re: 4.7l into classic Mopar? - 10/01/12 07:11 PM
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No, don't need to add all the extra stuff. I would love to ditch the whole emissions crap built in to the fuel tank, body, security, and whatever else isn't necessary. Who out there will flash the computer on these to eliminate the garbage?
Try hemifevertuning.com I think he's basically the only one out there who specializes in the OBD2 Dodges. Perhaps he can answer some questions for your. All I know is I had a complete 99 obd2 harness/computer from a dakota and I managed to dissect out just the computer and engine wiring harness part. However since I was just keeping the engine stock, it was cheaper for me to just get a 95 computer+harness from the junkyard than to have my 99 computer flashed.
Posted By: Furious65
Re: 4.7l into classic Mopar? - 10/02/12 12:58 AM
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No, don't need to add all the extra stuff. I would love to ditch the whole emissions crap built in to the fuel tank, body, security, and whatever else isn't necessary. Who out there will flash the computer on these to eliminate the garbage?
Try hemifevertuning.com I think he's basically the only one out there who specializes in the OBD2 Dodges. Perhaps he can answer some questions for your. All I know is I had a complete 99 obd2 harness/computer from a dakota and I managed to dissect out just the computer and engine wiring harness part. However since I was just keeping the engine stock, it was cheaper for me to just get a 95 computer+harness from the junkyard than to have my 99 computer flashed.
Thanks for pointing me in the right direction! 
Hmm, it seams as if no one has done this swap. I wonder if it is due to the complexity of it or the fact it is just a little 4.7 V8? The only vehicle I could put it into right now would be my '65 Sport Fury and I'm not sure I want to do that. My '72 Charger has a fresh 318 (less than 10k) so I really wouldn't want to pull it but I bet the 4.7 would get better mileage with the FI and OD trans. Hmm... 
Posted By: Pale_Roader
Re: 4.7l into classic Mopar? - 10/02/12 12:51 PM
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Pale Roader, have you seen a DOHC Mod motor out of the car? It's wider than it is long.
Yes i have.... I've been all over those things since that twisted thought entered (then exited) my head...
Wide yes, about the same as a hemi (a real hemi), but 425lbs. 320 (net) HP, wicked-efficient and the best sound ov any Detroit engine ever made... in my opinion. You should see the 5.4 DOHC out ov the vehicle... you wanna talk wiiiiiiiiiide...???
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The 4.7 is a small, lightweight engine and would indeed make a fine A-body motor, or probably fit pretty well in a '30s or '40s Plymouth or Dodge. I'd say you either need to start with the entire stock wiring system and fuel tank, or else plan a different transmission and Megasquirt. That's just a guess.
Stock cams are assembled out of pieces and supply oil to the rockers. I don't know about upgrades.
R.
I still stand by my post that (ironically) it would be cheaper and much easier to swap a Ford DOHC into an old Mopar than the Dodge one. Though again, thats not the point ov the thread.
Posted By: Fury Fan
Re: 4.7l into classic Mopar? - 10/02/12 01:08 PM
I realize the temptation of using what you have and using an engine you know the history of.
However, for simplicity of installation, a 5.2 or 5.9 would be a more practical choice. From what I've seen/heard, 4.7s are decent engines but there is demand for used ones also.
The speed parts for a 4.7 will be very limited and very expensive.
Sell teh 4.7 and get a Maggie.
Posted By: radar
Re: 4.7l into classic Mopar? - 10/02/12 03:02 PM
Granted a durango is a big truck for the 4.7 to push, but my '04 durango drives like a /6 a-body. Not much power, which is fine, but the truck only gets 13mpg! I upgraded to the cushy new durango from a mizer style 87 d150 with a /6 and 4spd, which also pulled down 13mpg. I think the 4.7 with it's fancy auto trans would be awesome in a light car.
Do you do 55 downhill everywhere with no stops to get that mpg?!
Posted By: finadk
Re: 4.7l into classic Mopar? - 10/02/12 04:23 PM
I like the 4.7 in my 02 Ram.
The only speed merchant for this engine seems to be
www.AirRam.com From the looks of their site they really know this engine.
Posted By: Furious65
Re: 4.7l into classic Mopar? - 10/02/12 06:19 PM
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Do you do 55 downhill everywhere with no stops to get that mpg?!
No, but I got right at 25mpg (75mph) once going to Phoenix from Tucson with a nice tail wind! 
That is the only time I have ever gotten that. However, 16mpg in town and 21/22mpg on the highway at 75mph is the norm and that is with my dirt bike, that pretty much lived in the bed of it, in the back. BTW, bone stock everything on the truck.
Posted By: dogdays
Re: 4.7l into classic Mopar? - 10/02/12 09:27 PM
Well, the engine I was thinking about which I saw on an engine stand at the January swap meet in denver, was the 5.4 DOHC and it was HUGE.
I think if I was going to run the 4.7 in something it'd be like a 68 Dart and I'd probably use the Ford EEC IV control system from a '90s Mustang. There's a wealth of info and parts out there. Of course, I would be using a manual transmission, probably somethig like a World class T5.
But we're way off topic here, the OP wanted to know and I think he's gotten a pretty good look at the problems he'd be facing.
R
Posted By: patrick
Re: 4.7l into classic Mopar? - 10/02/12 09:45 PM
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Its really too bad that more wasn't done with this engine. No real aftermarket, never put in cars, etc. In my quest for a quick, cool-sounding and extremely efficient V8 for my 70 Challenger i want to daily drive i kept coming back to this one. Its small, its light and being a DOHC it will sound wicked with some dedicated pipes, make very good power and kill anything else in efficiency.
because the 5.7 is lighter, physically smaller, more efficient (with MDS), more powerful AND cheaper to manufacture....
sounds like you need a 5.7 in your chally. my '11 charger is a beast power wise (published times are ~13.7 in the quarter, ~5.2 0-60, in a 4250lb car) while getting 22-23mpg in mixed driving over the 8k miles I've had the car...
Posted By: patrick
Re: 4.7l into classic Mopar? - 10/02/12 09:46 PM
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Pale Roader, have you seen a DOHC Mod motor out of the car? It's wider than it is long.
The 4.7 is a small, lightweight engine and would indeed make a fine A-body motor, or probably fit pretty well in a '30s or '40s Plymouth or Dodge. I'd say you either need to start with the entire stock wiring system and fuel tank, or else plan a different transmission and Megasquirt. That's just a guess.
Stock cams are assembled out of pieces and supply oil to the rockers. I don't know about upgrades.
R.
mod motors are huge...especially the 5.4's....they're physically bigger than a 460 ford...
Posted By: Pale_Roader
Re: 4.7l into classic Mopar? - 10/03/12 11:59 AM
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Its really too bad that more wasn't done with this engine. No real aftermarket, never put in cars, etc. In my quest for a quick, cool-sounding and extremely efficient V8 for my 70 Challenger i want to daily drive i kept coming back to this one. Its small, its light and being a DOHC it will sound wicked with some dedicated pipes, make very good power and kill anything else in efficiency.
because the 5.7 is lighter, physically smaller, more efficient (with MDS), more powerful AND cheaper to manufacture....
sounds like you need a 5.7 in your chally. my '11 charger is a beast power wise (published times are ~13.7 in the quarter, ~5.2 0-60, in a 4250lb car) while getting 22-23mpg in mixed driving over the 8k miles I've had the car...
I dont think the hemi is more efficient... as a design. With the MDS sure... but i've always thought that was a really stupid idea. Its a cop-out. Rather than actually design a truly modern and efficient engine, they just find ways to use less gas in an inefficient engine? Why not just build a better engine? Ford did. Its just hokey from start to finish i think. I dont want a V8 in my car that becomes a 6 or 4cyl... i want a V8! With a better design i CAN have my cake and eat it too.
Just my opinion. Not a fan.
If they made (and i'm sure you wont hear this coming from anyone else...) a smaller hemi... say around 5.0L... then maybe (though still without the MDS). But sheer size has its drawbacks, and in MY case i just dont need a big engine. The car is light. A 318 could be fast in this car... Hence my recent obsession with the Ford mod engine.
Posted By: Fury Fan
Re: 4.7l into classic Mopar? - 10/03/12 01:26 PM
I'm a 5.4 DOHC admirer too. I'm not a big fan of Fords otherwise, but I think a 67 Galaxie or an oddball big Merc would be pretty cool with a 5.4 DOHC Navigator engine.
Posted By: patrick
Re: 4.7l into classic Mopar? - 10/03/12 03:54 PM
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Its really too bad that more wasn't done with this engine. No real aftermarket, never put in cars, etc. In my quest for a quick, cool-sounding and extremely efficient V8 for my 70 Challenger i want to daily drive i kept coming back to this one. Its small, its light and being a DOHC it will sound wicked with some dedicated pipes, make very good power and kill anything else in efficiency.
because the 5.7 is lighter, physically smaller, more efficient (with MDS), more powerful AND cheaper to manufacture....
sounds like you need a 5.7 in your chally. my '11 charger is a beast power wise (published times are ~13.7 in the quarter, ~5.2 0-60, in a 4250lb car) while getting 22-23mpg in mixed driving over the 8k miles I've had the car...
I dont think the hemi is more efficient... as a design. With the MDS sure... but i've always thought that was a really stupid idea. Its a cop-out. Rather than actually design a truly modern and efficient engine, they just find ways to use less gas in an inefficient engine? Why not just build a better engine? Ford did. Its just hokey from start to finish i think. I dont want a V8 in my car that becomes a 6 or 4cyl... i want a V8! With a better design i CAN have my cake and eat it too.
Just my opinion. Not a fan.
If they made (and i'm sure you wont hear this coming from anyone else...) a smaller hemi... say around 5.0L... then maybe (though still without the MDS). But sheer size has its drawbacks, and in MY case i just dont need a big engine. The car is light. A 318 could be fast in this car... Hence my recent obsession with the Ford mod engine.
the hemi, without MDS is quite efficent--stick challys don't have it, and still get 26+MPG on the highway.
the hemi is a thoroghly modern and efficient engine in cyl head design, and it boasts some advantages over in-line valve heads like the LSx and the 4.6L SOHC heads-- being a hemi (more accurately a modified pent roof), the valve moves AWAY from the cyl bore as it opens, reducing valve shrouding significantly. having this arrangement also creates a much better short side radius geometry.
it's not a cop-out, it's simple physics. you need a certain amount of torque and HP for steady state cruising, most likely 30-50HP depending on speed and aerodynamics. an engine's volumetric efficiency is higher the closer you are to WOT (less vacuum=less pumping losses). the 90 degree V motor has natural balancing if it's a 2cyl, 4cyl, or 8cyl. so it makes sense to deactivate half the cyls (and keep the air column trapped by not opening the valves, eliminating pumping losses on those cyls) to increase fuel economy. the cyls' deactivate round-robin style, so it's not like the same cyls are shut off for 100 miles in a trip. and on my 2011, going into and out of MDS is seamless. if it wasn't for the "eco" light in the dash, you couldn't tell with stock exhaust. it reacts and refires the cyls in fractions of a second. THAT is having your cake and eating it, too. there is no natural engine balance on a 60 degree V6 where you could deactivate cyls, that's why it's not done--there's have to be some external means to cancel vibration....I'm surprised car companies haven't looked at a 90 degree V4, with cyl deactivation, honestly. most likely it's a packaging issue, as it would be a lot harder to package in a transverse, FWD arrangement.
and there is a certain elegance of design with a pushrod OHV V engine that you lose once you go to OHC. and just because it's a OHV cam-in-vee motor doesn't mean you can't do variable valve timing, or even multivalve heads...
1) fewer moving parts--1-3 less cams (SOHC or DOHC) and a MUCH simpler cam drive arrangement
2) shorter distance between crank to cam drive, means less potential variance in cam drive timing and wear
2) much smaller physically--having the cam in the vee instead of on top of the heads makes for a much more compact design (compare the PHYSICAL size of a 7L LS7 motor and a 4.6L or 5L ford DOHC motor)
bigger displacement=more torque. again, it's that dang physics....give me a 5.7L and the torque it provides when I want and need it, and a 2.85L when I don't....
Posted By: Fury Fan
Re: 4.7l into classic Mopar? - 10/03/12 04:14 PM
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the hemi is a thoroghly modern and efficient engine in cyl head design, and it boasts some advantages over in-line valve heads like the LSx and the 4.6L SOHC heads-- being a hemi (more accurately a modified pent roof), the valve moves AWAY from the cyl bore as it opens, reducing valve shrouding significantly. having this arrangement also creates a much better short side radius geometry.
I'll agree that the new hemi head has been optimized/updated for modern vehicles. Yes, the hemi combustion chamber layout is good for large valve sizes with minimized shrouding, and therefore high-rpm breathing. Yes, teh MDS adds to MPG -- but so do the single and double-OD ratios in the trans.
I believe I read somewhere years ago that the hemi combustion chamber was the worst for thermodynamic efficiency, due to high surface area. It also has to have a pop-up piston to get acceptable CR (as a hemisphere has greater volume than a wedge), and that popup impedes flame travel. I'd speculate that it therefore is less tolerable of lean mixtures, which are harder to burn.
Perhaps that's teh angle that Pale Roader was referring to?
It would be interesting to see BSFC of a 5.4 Ford, 5.3 and 6.0 LSX, and 5.7 hemi - as-is, without MDS or other features. And of 4.7 vs 5.2 Maggie.
So did we decide on the original 4.7 installation question??? 
Posted By: mike s
Re: 4.7l into classic Mopar? - 10/03/12 04:48 PM
The 4.7L and the Sohc Fords are closer to 40's BMW tech than anything modern.Yes they have modern fuel and ignition systems but that is all.2007 4.7L and up uses a poly chamber (yes that poly) and dual spark plugs. Hemi is much cheaper to build and I mean much cheaper.
GM noted this and did not build a Sohc V-8 instead building their LS series.Modern,light and powerful (torque) pushrod V-8's.
Overall the LS and Hemi are more efficient than the overhead cam designs.Remember these all were built to power a heavy truck and that also limits the fuel economy.
Lastly a small hemi (5.0L) would have been a great idea but the new V-6 does the same thing with only a small torque and h.p. loss without building yet another size Hemi.BTW 25 hwy mpg with the 8 spd in the truck.Not too shabby.
Posted By: dogdays
Re: 4.7l into classic Mopar? - 10/03/12 05:31 PM
Re: Ford mod V8s
My knock on the mod motor is this:
When Ford designed the mod motor they were too pessimistic about their ability to sell or possibly certify a large smallblock so they made the bore spacing too small (3.937"). While this made a nice short engine front-to-back, it didn't leave a lot of room for expansion. So when the cry came for more power, they couldn't add a lot to the bore size, instead they had to stroke the engine. So now they have a 330 cubic inch engine with a 4.165" stroke. Even a 273 block with a 4" crank, also about 330 cubic inches, has a shorter stroke.
Part of the thrill of a DOHC engine is that it breathes well and the lightweight valvetrain allows it to rev much higher than typical pushrods. But having a DOHC head on a 4.165" stroke is kind of like putting racing flats on a shot putter.
End of lecture.
R.
Posted By: Kiddart
Re: 4.7l into classic Mopar? - 10/03/12 05:32 PM
getting back to topic, I know the concern is the ECM but why couldnt or has anyone tried to see if Mopar performance has a drive by wite throtel body for the 4.7 to then use the conventional ecm like the 5.7 does. Or could you just use the FAST system to do both fuel and spark?? I have a 4.7 flex fuel in my ram and it sure would be real cool to run the same motor and fuel system in my abody, flex fuel and all.
Posted By: dogdays
Re: 4.7l into classic Mopar? - 10/03/12 05:38 PM
4.7 is drive by wire, according to my reading.
R.
Posted By: Furious65
Re: 4.7l into classic Mopar? - 10/03/12 05:52 PM
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So did we decide on the original 4.7 installation question???
Still haven't decided yet as the insurance company hasn't had a chance to look at the truck as it got hit again! Parked, on private property, yet some crazy lady ends up hitting it right in the same spot as before! 
I can fabricate whatever mounts I need and wiring isn't an issue for me. The ECM is the main concern for me. If I can eliminate all the BS emissions garbage and ditch the horrible gas tank mess with an ECM flash then I say it is doable. Would it be the fastest or coolest swap, no. However, it would be great for a daily driver vehicle IMO.
Posted By: patrick
Re: 4.7l into classic Mopar? - 10/03/12 08:15 PM
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I believe I read somewhere years ago that the hemi combustion chamber was the worst for thermodynamic efficiency, due to high surface area. It also has to have a pop-up piston to get acceptable CR (as a hemisphere has greater volume than a wedge), and that popup impedes flame travel. I'd speculate that it therefore is less tolerable of lean mixtures, which are harder to burn.
Perhaps that's teh angle that Pale Roader was referring to?
It would be interesting to see BSFC of a 5.4 Ford, 5.3 and 6.0 LSX, and 5.7 hemi - as-is, without MDS or other features. And of 4.7 vs 5.2 Maggie.
So did we decide on the original 4.7 installation question???
honestly, the new hemi is a "hemi" in name only. it probably would be more accurate to call it a polyspheric or pentroof engine.
the dual plug config also addresses flame front issues created my the larger surface area.
there's no reason you couldn't do a 4 valve pushrod hemi, either using a forked rocker. you may end up increasing the ratio of valvetrain weight to valve surface area, though, because you have 2 valve stems
Posted By: Fury Fan
Re: 4.7l into classic Mopar? - 10/03/12 08:26 PM
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I can fabricate whatever mounts I need and wiring isn't an issue for me. The ECM is the main concern for me. If I can eliminate all the BS emissions garbage and ditch the horrible gas tank mess with an ECM flash then I say it is doable. Would it be the fastest or coolest swap, no. However, it would be great for a daily driver vehicle IMO.
Back when I was fantasy-contemplating (which is all I get to do anymore 
) to do a 4.7 I planned on using a Megasquirt-2 and adapting a cable-mount TB from whatever would fit the best.
I'd be surprised if anyone is up-to-speed on deleting all teh stuff you need to disable in a 2005 4.7 ECM (trans, evap system, anti-theft, speed limiter, ABS/throttle overrides, cruise control, and some of the OBD stuff).
Even if so, it's gonna cost as much as a MS-II and you'll spend more effort to hack the OEM harness as if you made/bought a new one for the MS.
BTW - what's the hood clearance situation look like? I presume they weren't designing for that, being a truck-only engine.
Posted By: DaytonaTurbo
Re: 4.7l into classic Mopar? - 10/03/12 11:58 PM
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I'd be surprised if anyone is up-to-speed on deleting all teh stuff you need to disable in a 2005 4.7 ECM (trans, evap system, anti-theft, speed limiter, ABS/throttle overrides, cruise control, and some of the OBD stuff).
Even if so, it's gonna cost as much as a MS-II and you'll spend more effort to hack the OEM harness as if you made/bought a new one for the MS.
There are only two real downsides to using the megasquirt or any other aftermarket EFI controller in this application. One is the transmission. If you want to use the dakota transmission, the megasquirt can not control it so you would need to either run a different trans unless someone makes an independant trans controller for it. Second is the tuning. The factory efi computer will run the engine smooth as glass and will require you to put no thought or time into that aspect of the conversion. Did you try contacting that hemi fever guy?
Posted By: Kiddart
Re: 4.7l into classic Mopar? - 10/04/12 01:02 AM
Furious65, I am no expert but if the 4.7 is drive by wire and they are, why not try it. if you can put a 727 small block behind the motor and run the FASTefi system or something equivilent call it a day. I again am no expert but It would be safe to assume the trans bolt pattern should be the same. if you run a 727 or a 904 you at least keep the speedo. I dont think this would be as hard as we think this would be. Again just my opinion and we all know what those are like. I am going to do some research and see what i can turn over. if any.
Posted By: Fat_Mike
Re: 4.7l into classic Mopar? - 10/04/12 02:12 AM
Sounds like you have a plate full of stuff to measure and figure out. If you decide to go forward with the plan, my vote is to put it in an early A-Body.
Posted By: Furious65
Re: 4.7l into classic Mopar? - 10/04/12 03:22 AM
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Did you try contacting that hemi fever guy?
No, not yet. Probably will Friday as I should know the fate of my truck by then.
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I am going to do some research and see what i can turn over. if any.
I appreciate that!
I would really like to run the factory ECM if I'm going to do this. One of the benefits of doing this IMO is the EFI mapping would already be done and I would be able to use the OD trans. Otherwise, it gets even more complicated and expensive and then it just isn't worth it to me.
Posted By: Chris2581
Re: 4.7l into classic Mopar? - 10/04/12 12:04 PM
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4.7 is drive by wire, according to my reading.
R.
I'm sure there is a throttle cable on my 02 Ram quad cab 4.7
Posted By: BorisT
Re: 4.7l into classic Mopar? - 10/04/12 01:24 PM
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4.7 is drive by wire, according to my reading.
R.
I'm sure there is a throttle cable on my 02 Ram quad cab 4.7
As there was a throttle cable on the 4.7 powered 2006 Ram QC 4x4 I had and my '04 WJ Grand Cherokee with the 4.7 HO. IIRC, the 4.7 went to DBW in 2008 with the upgraded power. The Hemi changed over several years sooner - 2005 or so.
Posted By: Todd
Re: 4.7l into classic Mopar? - 10/04/12 05:59 PM
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4.7 is drive by wire, according to my reading.
R.
I'm sure there is a throttle cable on my 02 Ram quad cab 4.7
As there was a throttle cable on the 4.7 powered 2006 Ram QC 4x4 I had and my '04 WJ Grand Cherokee with the 4.7 HO. IIRC, the 4.7 went to DBW in 2008 with the upgraded power. The Hemi changed over several years sooner - 2005 or so.
Hemi always have been.
In 2002 when the new DR Body trucks came out they used the 5.9L V8 because the software controller wasnt ready to run the electronic throttle. Not enough room inside of the contoller to run ECT,PCM and TCM functions. But that being said I may be wrong. 
I would still like to see some one use a 4.7L and make it work. It would really make you take a second look.
Posted By: Furious65
Re: 4.7l into classic Mopar? - 10/05/12 11:31 PM
Got the official news that the truck is totaled today. I asked about the buy back price and they said I would have to pay it off myself, then they would pay out on the accident, and
then I could buy it back.
Well, I don't have 8k to just pay it off so I guess I will not be doing it. Sorry to waste everyone's time.
Posted By: Kiddart
Re: 4.7l into classic Mopar? - 10/05/12 11:40 PM
its still a real cool idea
Posted By: Pale_Roader
Re: 4.7l into classic Mopar? - 10/06/12 12:25 PM
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Re: Ford mod V8s
My knock on the mod motor is this:
When Ford designed the mod motor they were too pessimistic about their ability to sell or possibly certify a large smallblock so they made the bore spacing too small (3.937"). While this made a nice short engine front-to-back, it didn't leave a lot of room for expansion. So when the cry came for more power, they couldn't add a lot to the bore size, instead they had to stroke the engine. So now they have a 330 cubic inch engine with a 4.165" stroke. Even a 273 block with a 4" crank, also about 330 cubic inches, has a shorter stroke.
Part of the thrill of a DOHC engine is that it breathes well and the lightweight valvetrain allows it to rev much higher than typical pushrods. But having a DOHC head on a 4.165" stroke is kind of like putting racing flats on a shot putter.
End of lecture.
R.
Yes, i'd agree. Part ov the reason why i like them so much is because i AM into smaller, lighter cars now than i was. Anything i'll be driving will do more than fine with 5.0L or less. The 5.4DOHC still seems to work very very well however. In fact, it seems to be one ov those 'freak' engines everyone is talking about in that other thread... it just works, better than we'd think it should. Ov course, the guys that do need more torque are forced to stroke it even further... up to 5.8L i think. Al Pappito, the foremost 5.4DOHC guru has made some monsters... He'd say "My piston speeds would make you puke." I can imagine. But again... Mustangs/Cobras are on the smaller lighter side... and my Challenger would be considerably lighter still. I've since got off that wagon though...
As for the MDS. I still dont like it. Its hokey. Just design a more efficient engine!!! If it changes (effectively) to a 4-cylinder... then it must sound like one as well... and in that case i am most definitely out. I dont care if it runs 9's and gets 40mpg. I'll buy a Honda if i want a 4-popper. And on the efficiency track... my point was more that a modern DOHC V8 should always be more efficient than a (admittedly compromised) 'sort-ov' hemi design, or even the almighty LS-engine design forged by God himself (according to Hotrod magazine and Chevy guys)... though i'll admit i've yet to see the actual math on that one yet.
They are good... and kept within their comfort zone (smaller, lighter cars) they are pretty damn successful.
Now, if i was jamming a modern plant into a 71 Charger, or a C-body, or even something mid-size with an automatic transmission... ... the hemi (or the LS) makes a more obvious choice.
Posted By: Fury Fan
Re: 4.7l into classic Mopar? - 10/08/12 12:59 PM
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Sorry to waste everyone's time.
Don't worry, you didn't waste our time. It was a good discussion. The 5.4 sidetrack was better than our usual 'just get a 360' responses too.