Moparts

To hone or not....

Posted By: 440newport

To hone or not.... - 08/16/12 01:01 AM

I pulled the 360 out of my Mirada to repaint it and fix a few oil leaks. While it was out I decided to check the bearings, and that snowballed into tearing the whole thing apart.

I wasn't going to mess with the rings but I figure I might as well throw a new set in there while I'm at it.
The motor has had about 15k hard miles since it was rebuilt in 2004.

There is some cross hatch visible in the bores, but they are very shiny and smooth. Can I run a new set of moly rings as is, or does it need to be roughed up with a dingle ball hone. Or, am I better off saving a few bucks and reusing the old ones?
Posted By: RapidRobert

Re: To hone or not.... - 08/16/12 03:01 AM

I'd hone it with the right grit flexhone for moly rings (320 grit iirc). I'd get a set of file fit plasma moly rings. break one of your old rings in two & grind an even level hook on one end & use that to clean the ring grooves. CAREFULLY ridge ream the block pulling the cutter toward you as you go around the cyl & check OFTEN to not cut past flush at any point in the circumference EDIT read "breakin secrets" at www.mototuneusa.com
Posted By: 70Cuda383

Re: To hone or not.... - 08/16/12 03:04 AM

Hone? every time with new rings. so, yes.
Posted By: Challenger 1

Re: To hone or not.... - 08/16/12 03:22 AM

What was the condition of the engine when you took it apart? Ever do a compression or leak down?
Posted By: BulletBob

Re: To hone or not.... - 08/16/12 03:23 AM

if you're using the rings over & it didn't smoke before then leave it alone if you're using a fresh set then finish the bores lightly with the correct grit dingleberry hone being that you do still have crosshatch showing
Posted By: 383man

Re: To hone or not.... - 08/16/12 04:14 AM

Yea with new rings do a hone job and put a nice new pattern on the cyl. That way you will be sure to seat the rings. But as was stated if you use the old rings over no need to hone. Ron
Posted By: 440newport

Re: To hone or not.... - 08/16/12 06:12 PM

Quote:

What was the condition of the engine when you took it apart? Ever do a compression or leak down?



No, it ran fine but was a bit smokey out of one tail pipe. A couple of cylinders were sucking oil from the intake gasket it looks like.

There is no ridge in the bores.
Posted By: moparjo68

Re: To hone or not.... - 08/16/12 06:47 PM

If new rings go into your motor, they will need to seat against the cylinder walls and if you do not bore out or hone, I would guess you will be losing not only compression but oil as well. So I would definitely hone it!
Posted By: NANKET

Re: To hone or not.... - 08/16/12 07:27 PM

Quote:

Quote:

What was the condition of the engine when you took it apart? Ever do a compression or leak down?



No, it ran fine but was a bit smokey out of one tail pipe. A couple of cylinders were sucking oil from the intake gasket it looks like.

There is no ridge in the bores.



If you have no ridge and crosshatch is visible, then run it. Rule is when dingleball honing then don't use moly rings, have a shop hone it for moly ring use.
Posted By: dogdays

Re: To hone or not.... - 08/16/12 08:26 PM

That's not everyone's rule. No reason a Flex Hone of proper grit won't put the right finish on the cylinder walls.
I'd be tempted to put new moly rings on, bolt the engine together and DRIVE IT. The cylinder walls are already honed by months or years of driving and the moly rings seat almost instantly. Ring science is very very good.
I did this years ago with a Toyota truck that had the rings stuck. Pulled the pistons, cleaned the cylinder walls with lacquer thinner, put on a new set of Hastings rings with some 10-30, and they were chrome rings which take longer to seat than moly rings, and fired it up. Went up and down the street open-throttle closed-throttle a few times and never looked back. The engine ran fine that way for years.

IF you are goig to "rough up" the wsurface the Flex Hone is better unless you have either a torque plate or cylinder head bolted to the block. The Flex Hone balls will follow the contour of the cylinder walls and not try to reshape them, which you don't want to do unless you have the torque plate bolted up.

R.
Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: To hone or not.... - 08/17/12 04:32 AM

I hate dingleberry hones, flex hones you know the ones, way to course. Was your block honed with a torque plate? If yes have it done again by the same shop, if not why not
Posted By: dogdays

Re: To hone or not.... - 08/17/12 07:10 PM

Way too coarse? They're available in a number of abrasives up to 800 grit.

R.
Posted By: 70Cuda383

Re: To hone or not.... - 08/17/12 07:45 PM

Quote:

Way too coarse? They're available in a number of abrasives up to 800 grit.

R.




I have a 320 grit flex-ball hone. I've done 3 engines with it now, and no issues at all with ring seal. they don't burn oil or smoke at all. all 3 engines were "refreshes" where they were taken apart to a bare block, the bores had very minimal wear, so the whole block was cleaned up, I honed the cylinders with the "dingleball" hone, had the machine shop balance the rotating assembly (new rods/pistons) and I assembled the motor.

if a block is bored over at all by a shop, then yes, I would have them also do the hone job afterwards (isn't that included with the over-bore job?) but if you have a block with bores in great shape showing minimal to no wear, then why CAN'T you use the flexball hone? you're not trying to re-shape the bore, you're just trying to scuff up the walls and give it some "tooth" for the new rings to seat against.
Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: To hone or not.... - 08/18/12 12:38 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Way too coarse? They're available in a number of abrasives up to 800 grit.

R.




I have a 320 grit flex-ball hone. I've done 3 engines with it now, and no issues at all with ring seal. they don't burn oil or smoke at all. all 3 engines were "refreshes" where they were taken apart to a bare block, the bores had very minimal wear, so the whole block was cleaned up, I honed the cylinders with the "dingleball" hone, had the machine shop balance the rotating assembly (new rods/pistons) and I assembled the motor.

if a block is bored over at all by a shop, then yes, I would have them also do the hone job afterwards (isn't that included with the over-bore job?) but if you have a block with bores in great shape showing minimal to no wear, then why CAN'T you use the flexball hone? you're not trying to re-shape the bore, you're just trying to scuff up the walls and give it some "tooth" for the new rings to seat against.

I happen to like straight, round cylinders for new rings
Posted By: dogdays

Re: To hone or not.... - 08/20/12 06:13 PM

I agree with you but hear me out...The cylinder walls of a low mileage engine are as straight and round as they can be. They are probably rounder than what you'd get using a hone with no deck plate. The engine has been through thousands of piston cycles and it does it with the head bolted on and hot coolant running through the block. I view this as doing a better honing job than honing a cold block without the head bolted on.

For that reason the Brush hone works well in roughing up the cylinder walls "for the rings to seat." It doesn't change the shape of the cylinders, so when the engine is buttoned up and running the cylinders will have returned to their previous round condition.

Now on to the "ring seating" argument. I about choked on my oatmeal back in 1975 when I read in the Chevy Power book that it was recommended NOT to rough up the surface for new rings, unless there was something visibly wrong. But there it was in black and white written by Chevy engineers and purchased from the dealership. They said that modern (1975) rings seated so fast that it wasn't necessary to rough up the cylinder walls, and that it reduced friction to not do so. So I did it on a Toyota pickup and it worked. You've probably read this before from me, but that engine ran like a champ long after I'd sold it.
I don't expect you to believe this, but it's what happened to me.

R.
© 2024 Moparts Forums