Moparts

4 speed cars...who runs a scattershield on the street?

Posted By: 340727dart

4 speed cars...who runs a scattershield on the street? - 11/08/08 07:14 PM

I'm well on my way to gathering all the parts needed for swapping in a 4 speed on my Dart Sport.
I've already got a factory aluminum bellhousing.
While I won't be racing the car due to no nearby tracks, I still plan on some acceleration testing from time to time on the back roads.
My 340 is making a little over 400 horsepower. I've got the rev limiter set at 6250 rpm.
I'm already planning on buying an SFI approved billet flywheel and pressure plate, hoping to avoid clutch explosions.
That being said, do I really need a scattershield?
Posted By: In_The_Pink

Re: 4 speed cars...who runs a scattershield on the street? - 11/08/08 07:20 PM

Need? Hard to say, but if you're erring on the side of caution with and SFI-approved flywheel, you may as well go ahead and use a scattershield. You can easily sell the Al BH to re-coup some of the cost.
Posted By: SCATPK

Re: 4 speed cars...who runs a scattershield on the street? - 11/08/08 07:30 PM

In my opinion no! If you have good parts and a rev limiter the odds of having a failure will be very minimal. Look at all of the factory cars with 400+ hp and they use an aluminum bellhousing if it was not safe they surely would not be using them to avoid a lawsuit. Most failures you hear of are on race cars that are driven hard and if that is its main purpose them absolutly you need a safety bell and engine block plate. I asked the same question myself a few years back and got the same answer from most guys do you like your right foot. But again how many factory muscle cars came or come with a safety bellhousing??? Now if you are going to be putting slicks on something and going for broke at the track then yes get the scattershield, but if you are a street jockey 99% of the time then not worth the headaches in my opinion. I had a lakewood on my gtx and removed it in favor of a lightweight factory aluminum unit and feel very safe with it for my use.
Posted By: 440Demon

Re: 4 speed cars...who runs a scattershield on the street? - 11/08/08 08:44 PM

The Lakewood's run around 3-400$. I used one on mine (440 4spd Demon) think it's woth every penny.
Posted By: QuickDodge

Re: 4 speed cars...who runs a scattershield on the street? - 11/08/08 08:50 PM

One other variable to consider is that tire technology has changed significantly since our muscle cars were built. What was quite safe with the tires built 40 years ago may or may not be safe with today's tires.
Posted By: SCATPK

Re: 4 speed cars...who runs a scattershield on the street? - 11/08/08 08:57 PM

Most of the stock rubber on these new mustangs and corvetts are better than anything that was available back in the day. I have an SFI flywheel,good clutch and pressure plate with quality hardware and a rev limiter and feel my setup is pretty strong. If I was running slicks and popping the clutch at 4000+ rpm then yes the shield would be a required item for safety.
Posted By: ThermoQuad

Re: 4 speed cars...who runs a scattershield on the street? - 11/08/08 09:05 PM

no scattershield required...sfi flywheel and a good clutch is all you need
Posted By: Kudakidd

Re: 4 speed cars...who runs a scattershield on the street? - 11/08/08 11:38 PM

No 6 grand launches, no scattershield necessary.
Posted By: fourgearsavoy

Re: 4 speed cars...who runs a scattershield on the stre - 11/09/08 12:08 AM

I say why chance it? When you miss a gear or break a transmission the heavy flywheel/plate assy.weighs in at close to 50 pounds and it carries alot of inertia that will surpass the rev limiter.I have a 6800 chip on the high side and my recall tach has been over 7400 when I missed a gear.If you don't have anything now I would go with a Quicktime bell.
Gus
Posted By: topside

Re: 4 speed cars...who runs a scattershield on the stre - 11/09/08 01:18 AM

When I disassembled my Hemi RR back around 1985 to restore it, I took one look at the floor & firewall and put a scattershield in it. The shrapnel that punched holes through the floor made enough of an impression on me, and those cars had cast-iron bellhousings.
Posted By: cupcake

Re: 4 speed cars...who runs a scattershield on the stre - 11/09/08 01:37 AM

u dont need a seatbelt eather dont go over 5mph
Posted By: OA5599

Re: 4 speed cars...who runs a scattershield on the stre - 11/09/08 02:21 AM

According to an old mopar mag of mine, Don Johnson wouldn't drive the Nash Bridges 'Cudas without scattershields installed on the 4 speed cars.
Posted By: therick

Re: 4 speed cars...who runs a scattershield on the stre - 11/09/08 03:36 AM

Better safe than sorry. I use one on every stick car I own. Whats the going rate for a new foot?
Posted By: SCATPK

Re: 4 speed cars...who runs a scattershield on the stre - 11/09/08 03:55 AM

Quote:

According to an old mopar mag of mine, Don Johnson wouldn't drive the Nash Bridges 'Cudas without scattershields installed on the 4 speed cars.



Well thats sounds just plain stupid to me. So all of those musclecars on the road today with pumped small blocks and heavy hitting big blocks with 4spds you guys think are unsafe without a heavy pain in the butt scattershield? I guess the same could be said about all those automatic transmission cars behind high hp motors without a shield????
Posted By: copchaser

Re: 4 speed cars...who runs a scattershield on the street? - 11/09/08 04:03 AM

I run a lakewood in my GTX. I figure my legs are worth more than $400 bucks. I told a friend of mine who was kicking the same thing, I told him that I would give him $400 if I could cut his right leg off at the knee. He joined the scattersheild club.
Posted By: RobX4406

Re: 4 speed cars...who runs a scattershield on the stre - 11/09/08 05:05 AM

If you put on a lakewood, check the location and position of the fork arm mount as they have been WAY off in some cases.
Posted By: SCATPK

Re: 4 speed cars...who runs a scattershield on the stre - 11/09/08 05:27 AM

If you run a lakewood you may also need to do some triming depending on your exhaust system Here is a picture of some trimming I had to do on the lakewood that I removed on my gtx.

Attached picture 4801743-bellhousing1(Large).jpg
Posted By: dduster73

Re: 4 speed cars...who runs a scattershield on the stre - 11/09/08 05:43 AM

I run one on my 73 440 Duster. Seems like a good idea. Dave
Posted By: jake4cars

Re: 4 speed cars...who runs a scattershield on the stre - 11/09/08 12:38 PM

Maybe you will not need it, but......do you want to take the chance, I always use them on street cars, better safe than crippled.

Joey
Posted By: 70HemiGTX

Re: 4 speed cars...who runs a scattershield on the stre - 11/09/08 12:46 PM

Have one on my Dart.
Posted By: Paul_B

Re: 4 speed cars...who runs a scattershield on the street? - 11/09/08 02:25 PM

My car is is basically the dodge version of SCATPK's GTX. I run a stock bellhousing with no trouble. My car is also 100% street duty and has never seen any strip time. If I was going to see any track time, I'd likely upgrade to a lakewood bell for piece of mind.
Posted By: quick77rt

Re: 4 speed cars...who runs a scattershield on the street? - 11/09/08 02:44 PM

If your going to do it, do the full package. Why not do it...

There are options to lakewoods....I tried a lake and it just didnt want to fit an F-body right, I found an older sfi rated ansen? and it installed E body TTI_s with no mods other then an inch from the lower z bar section.

Attached picture 4802027-DSC05077.JPG
Posted By: ThermoQuad

Re: 4 speed cars...who runs a scattershield on the street? - 11/09/08 03:03 PM

any one have real time experience with QuickTime Inc Performance Bellhousings?
Posted By: jbc426

Re: 4 speed cars...who runs a scattershield on the street? - 11/09/08 04:08 PM

Also, don't forget that you need to invest the time or money to check and adjust the fit/mating of the scattershield to the engine. I've had two of them on my 4-speed cars and they were both way off. Had to use both shims and offset dowels to get them lined up correctly. It's more difficult to do with the engine in the car too.

There is also the liablitity and guilt you would incure if a passenger was injured. Just think if an attorney ever found this post after you ended up with an explosion that cost your passenger, perhaps your child, a limb because you choose not to run one. Knowing the risks, you could be in a little trouble now that we have blood-sucking lawyers running every branch of the country.
Posted By: fourgearsavoy

Re: 4 speed cars...who runs a scattershield on the stre - 11/09/08 04:53 PM

Quote:

any one have real time experience with QuickTime Inc Performance Bellhousings?


From what I have heard they are very true and square to the block because they are spun rather than hydro-formed.I talked to a racer that checked it for alignment and it was only out by .003 Now for those of you that have checked this that is almost perfect out of the box Now you could run that with no problem at all.Jamie Passon has looked at one and there are a few clutch pivot issues on the E-body.Call him to find out what the issues were.
Gus
Posted By: Dart 340

Re: 4 speed cars...who runs a scattershield on the street? - 11/09/08 05:09 PM

Quote:

Also, don't forget that you need to invest the time or money to check and adjust the fit/mating of the scattershield to the engine. I've had two of them on my 4-speed cars and they were both way off. Had to use both shims and offset dowels to get them lined up correctly. It's more difficult to do with the engine in the car too.

There is also the liablitity and guilt you would incure if a passenger was injured. Just think if an attorney ever found this post after you ended up with an explosion that cost your passenger, perhaps your child, a limb because you choose not to run one. Knowing the risks, you could be in a little trouble now that we have blood-sucking lawyers running every branch of the country.



From an attorneys point of view that's a just plain
stupid comment. If your comment held any validity
they would be installed from the factory.
Posted By: 340727dart

Re: 4 speed cars...who runs a scattershield on the stre - 11/09/08 05:30 PM

Dang, y'all have given me a lot to think about.
A good friend of mine used to have a '65 Comet Sprint with a high winding, solid cam, 289 and a four speed.
He did a 5 grand clutch dump and the clutch came apart. It blew holes in the cowl, took out his master cylinder, broke both valve covers, flattened the headers against the frame rails, but did not come through the floor.
He was running a stock clutch.
I've heard too many bad stories of trying to get the scattershield lined up with the crank.
However, I think I am beginning to lean toward getting a scattershield.
This swap is beginning to get more expensive.
Does anybody have experience with installing a scattershield in a four speed A-body with TTI headers?
Posted By: fourgearsavoy

Re: 4 speed cars...who runs a scattershield on the stre - 11/09/08 05:39 PM

You can get the street version of the Quicktime bell for about the price of a used Lakewood(that is after you have to buy all the hardware that is missing from the used one)
Gus
Posted By: jbc426

Re: 4 speed cars...who runs a scattershield on the street? - 11/09/08 05:45 PM

Quote:



From an attorneys point of view that a just plain
stupid comment. If your comment held any validity
they would be installed from the factory.



Perhaps a little work on you grammar, logic and manners would help you make your case, but this vehicle has been modified beyond the factory specifications by an owner who has documented knowledge that his modifications have been known to cause catastrophic failures in the original equiptment. That makes him liable. Period.
Posted By: fourgearsavoy

Re: 4 speed cars...who runs a scattershield on the stre - 11/09/08 05:57 PM

Thanks Captain Buzzkill
Gus
Posted By: Dart 340

Re: 4 speed cars...who runs a scattershield on the street? - 11/09/08 06:04 PM

Quote:

Quote:



From an attorneys point of view that a just plain
stupid comment. If your comment held any validity
they would be installed from the factory.



Perhaps a little work on you grammar, logic and manners would help you make your case, but this vehicle has been modified beyond the factory specifications by an owner who has documented knowledge that his modifications have been known to cause catastrophic failures in the original equiptment. That makes him liable. Period.




It's obvious you have no legal education at all,
post all you want. There is no case.
Posted By: jbc426

Re: 4 speed cars...who runs a scattershield on the street? - 11/09/08 06:41 PM

Quote:




It's obvious you have no legal education at all,
post all you want. There is no case.



LOL...Thank you Judge Wopper!
Posted By: Dart 340

Re: 4 speed cars...who runs a scattershield on the street? - 11/09/08 06:48 PM

It's Wapner.....

Who can't spell now....

Oh I better not let anyone ride in my car because
I modified the suspension, oh yea and the exhaust,
oh and the electronics, oh god it's not original
at all, maybe I should just park it.
Posted By: NTOLERANCE

Re: 4 speed cars...who runs a scattershield on the stre - 11/09/08 06:59 PM

Quote:

So all of those musclecars on the road today with pumped small blocks and heavy hitting big blocks with 4spds you guys think are unsafe without a heavy pain in the butt scattershield? I guess the same could be said about all those automatic transmission cars behind high hp motors without a shield????



I havent weighed them, but I have had booth the lakewood shield and a 2626 11" bellhousing in the garage at the same time, and I'd hav to say the factory iron bell was heavier. Sure 10.5" aluminum bells are alot lighter, but it doenst help much if you have the 11" set up already. I think if your clutch does explode and you have an aluminum bellhousing, the carnage could be much worse as I cant see the aluminum holding anthing in better than a factory iron bell.

High HP automatic cars do use shields and blankets to protect the car/driver. Lots of pics on this forum with blown up 727 front drums.

Going off memory here, what does the NHRA say about shields? If youre running under a certain ET... I think its 12 seconds and faster current SFI shield is required.. Slicks may factor into that as well, but my memory is fuzzy, and anyone can look it up.

MY Rule of thumb, 12 second car, with slicks/drag radials/performance tires,.....get a shield.

Besides.....you know youll always want to go faster.
Posted By: Blakcharger440

Re: 4 speed cars...who runs a scattershield on the stre - 11/09/08 07:20 PM

It seems that a trans blanket for a 833 gear box would be an awesome product to market if one could be made???
Posted By: jbc426

Re: 4 speed cars...who runs a scattershield on the street? - 11/09/08 08:14 PM

Quote:

It's Wapner.....





LMAO......No, spelling error. It's Judge Wopper alright!
Posted By: jake4cars

Re: 4 speed cars...who runs a scattershield on the stre - 11/09/08 10:25 PM

Quote:

Dang, y'all have given me a lot to think about.
A good friend of mine used to have a '65 Comet Sprint with a high winding, solid cam, 289 and a four speed.
He did a 5 grand clutch dump and the clutch came apart. It blew holes in the cowl, took out his master cylinder, broke both valve covers, flattened the headers against the frame rails, but did not come through the floor.
He was running a stock clutch.
I've heard too many bad stories of trying to get the scattershield lined up with the crank.
However, I think I am beginning to lean toward getting a scattershield.
This swap is beginning to get more expensive.
Does anybody have experience with installing a scattershield in a four speed A-body with TTI headers?



You might want to call TTI and ask them, it made a difference in my 65 Coronet when I ordered my TTI's, their tech rep wanted to know what bell housing I planned on using. my car is a 440, Jerico, Lakewood set up.

Good Luck!!, it will be fun.

Joey
Posted By: theclutcher

Re: 4 speed cars...who runs a scattershield on the stre - 11/09/08 11:05 PM

no need for a blankie, thats for the porkyflites
Would not run without a can if i had the means to get one. ask the manufacturers. the ring gear teeth chew thru even the steel cans like a buzzsaw.
thats why no mods allowed.
Posted By: Dart 340

Re: 4 speed cars...who runs a scattershield on the street? - 11/09/08 11:57 PM

Quote:

Quote:

It's Wapner.....





LMAO......No, spelling error. It's Judge Wopper alright!



Not if you are referring to the Peoples Court judge Joseph Wapner.
Also, your comma is misplaced in your sentence.
Posted By: fourgearsavoy

Re: 4 speed cars...who runs a scattershield on the stre - 11/10/08 12:23 AM

Quote:

It seems that a trans blanket for a 833 gear box would be an awesome product to market if one could be made???


833's implode they don't explode
Gus
Posted By: ThermoQuad

Re: 4 speed cars...who runs a scattershield on the stre - 11/10/08 12:41 AM

What about the quicktime b-h...

Does the clutch z bar line up with the pivot, is there a pivot or place to put one??

Does it clear the headers?

Is the b-h now the lowest pt under the car???
Some of us have low cars...and fast
Posted By: fourgearsavoy

Re: 4 speed cars...who runs a scattershield on the stre - 11/10/08 12:50 AM

What kind of car? The only issue I heard of was for an E-body pivot had to be moved.It is the smallest bell in the industry.Look in the clearance section of the website and you will find the street version for $250.00 That includes everything you need but there are a limited number available.
I would grab one but they are only for 130 tooth flywheels
Gus
Posted By: SCATPK

Re: 4 speed cars...who runs a scattershield on the stre - 11/10/08 01:14 AM

Here is a link to Quicktime Performance.
http://www.quicktimeinc.com/products.html

Looks like a nice product!
Posted By: jbc426

Re: 4 speed cars...who runs a scattershield on the street? - 11/10/08 04:25 AM

Quote:


Not if you are referring to the Peoples Court judge Joseph Wapner.


I'm not.

Quote:

Also, your comma is misplaced in your sentence.


Thanks Judge Wopper!
Posted By: Dart 340

Re: 4 speed cars...who runs a scattershield on the street? - 11/10/08 01:17 PM

Quote:

Quote:


Not if you are referring to the Peoples Court judge Joseph Wapner.


I'm not.

Quote:

Also, your comma is misplaced in your sentence.


Thanks Judge Wopper!



You're welcome Judge Judy.
Posted By: 340727dart

Re: 4 speed cars...who runs a scattershield on the stre - 11/10/08 01:17 PM

The street version of the Quicktime bellhousing is not SFI approved.
Posted By: jbc426

Re: 4 speed cars...who runs a scattershield on the street? - 11/10/08 01:39 PM

Quote:



You're welcome, Judge Judy.



LOL....OK,.... Judge Judy if you prefer, but once you finally decide, be sure to update your sig.
Posted By: LAR_414

Re: 4 speed cars...who runs a scattershield on the street? - 11/10/08 01:57 PM

I've got a Quicktime bell. Not in the car yet, but it will be going in over the winter.

SUPER nice piece. I even got a brand new one from them for $250 plus shipping, because it's not SFI approved. It doesn't have the bolts to hold the plates together all the way around the bottom. This was made that way on purpose for street cars and ground clearance. Other than that, they have exploded the flywheel inside and it holds just fine, but can't get the SFI tag on it.

SUPER LIGHT WEIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Quality is excellent.
Adapters to run all the transmission retainers!!!!!

I dont' know why anyone would buy anything else, if starting out.

No brainer!~!!!!!!
Posted By: Dart 340

Re: 4 speed cars...who runs a scattershield on the street? - 11/10/08 03:28 PM

Quote:

Quote:



You're welcome, Judge Judy.



LOL....OK,.... Judge Judy if you prefer, but once you finally decide, be sure to update your sig.



You bet I will, especially once I stoop to trailer
park humor and de-educate myself to the level of understanding your babble.
Posted By: ThermoQuad

Re: 4 speed cars...who runs a scattershield on the stre - 11/10/08 04:38 PM

E body small block...so I am sol as I want a true bolt in bellhousing with no re engineering required.
Posted By: Dart 340

Re: 4 speed cars...who runs a scattershield on the street? - 11/10/08 04:54 PM

Quote:

I've got a Quicktime bell. Not in the car yet, but it will be going in over the winter.

SUPER nice piece. I even got a brand new one from them for $250 plus shipping, because it's not SFI approved. It doesn't have the bolts to hold the plates together all the way around the bottom. This was made that way on purpose for street cars and ground clearance. Other than that, they have exploded the flywheel inside and it holds just fine, but can't get the SFI tag on it.

SUPER LIGHT WEIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Quality is excellent.
Adapters to run all the transmission retainers!!!!!

I dont' know why anyone would buy anything else, if starting out.

No brainer!~!!!!!!



This sounds pretty nice!

I used to do some custom work with some big
names in the NHRA and they always had access
to about anything they wanted. I worked on a
titanium one once, wish we could get one of
those for 250 bucks that would fit a Mopar.

Still, the one you have listed above is sure
a nice upgrade to a stock one. Thanks for the
info.
Posted By: Jack Zupan

Re: 4 speed cars...who runs a scattershield on the stre - 11/11/08 03:51 AM

What is the difference between the 130 tooth and 143 tooth flywheels other that the obvious.

Jack
Posted By: NTOLERANCE

Re: 4 speed cars...who runs a scattershield on the stre - 11/11/08 04:39 AM

Quote:

What is the difference between the 130 tooth and 143 tooth flywheels other that the obvious.

Jack



130 is a 10.5" diameter clutch
143 is an 11" diameter clutch
Posted By: jcc

Re: 4 speed cars...who runs a scattershield on the street? - 11/12/08 04:11 AM

And not mentioned yet, a limiter has little effect when doing a street driven lively wrong gear downshift.
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