Zinc Additive for oil....Best bang for the buck

Posted By: Pyper70

Zinc Additive for oil....Best bang for the buck - 05/31/12 12:03 PM

Which one do I get...I found TORCO over here..but at $32 a bottle...I would rather 3 bottles from the States for a 1/3 of the price. I see Lucas, Comp Cams, ZDDP...and Edelbrock..

Which one has the most ppm in the bottle...Whats your choice of poison?

Posted By: Aero426

Re: Zinc Additive for oil....Best bang for the buck - 05/31/12 02:33 PM

A four stroke 10W-40 motorcycle oil may be a cost effective alternative for you. Those are still high ZDDP formula oils. For instance, the Mobil 1 4T oil is the same formula as what their NASCAR spec race oil from back in the 1990's. Castrol has a conventional 4T oil that is API rated SG, which means it is an older formulation, which is good. I'm sure there are others.

Posted By: herkamer

Re: Zinc Additive for oil....Best bang for the buck - 05/31/12 03:18 PM

http://www.hughesengines.com/Index/produ...l1=QWRkaXRpdmVz

$7.50 for a single bottle seems pretty reasonable. Looks like all the rest start at $10 and go up from there.

Posted By: Trulyvintage

Might consider Rotella as base oil - 05/31/12 03:31 PM

Consider using Rotella 10/30 as your base engine oil

It has the highest allowed zinc content, plus it does a good job cleaning the engine

Although designed for diesel engines, it can be used in gas engines

Jim

Posted By: bigsbigelow

Re: Might consider Rotella as base oil - 05/31/12 03:32 PM

I use Rotella 10-30 with one bottle of STP additive. (340 with a solid flat tappet cam)

Posted By: Aero426

Re: Might consider Rotella as base oil - 05/31/12 03:56 PM

Quote:

I use Rotella 10-30 with one bottle of STP additive. (340 with a solid flat tappet cam)

The additive is still key here, because they have changed the ZDDP package in the newer diesel oils for low emissions.

On the other hand, why do you want to play chemist with additives when you can buy a properly formulated oil off the shelf?

Posted By: Dr Lebaron

Re: Might consider Rotella as base oil - 05/31/12 04:41 PM

http://www.z-alt.com/

Posted By: Pyper70

Re: Might consider Rotella as base oil - 05/31/12 05:10 PM

Quote:

Quote:

I use Rotella 10-30 with one bottle of STP additive. (340 with a solid flat tappet cam)

The additive is still key here, because they have changed the ZDDP package in the newer diesel oils for low emissions.

On the other hand, why do you want to play chemist with additives when you can buy a properly formulated oil off the shelf?

The oil on the shelves here is different than the one in the States. ONE quart of Mobil 1 synthetic goes for 14� here ($17) Like I mentioned the TORCO additive sold in the States is $12...here it was like $35...Shipping oil from the States is going to cost the same amount if I start buying here, and for a car that I drive 1000-1500 miles a year...an additive is the cheaper appr0aoch. Going to finish off my Castrol 20w50 and switch to another brand...dunno what yet...these are just preventative bottles for an oil change later this year...around Winter time.

The z-alt site hasn't been updated since 2009...and thats just scary that a business has an online retail and hasnt been updated in 3 years

Posted By: Aero426

Re: Might consider Rotella as base oil - 05/31/12 05:16 PM

How much is a bottle of conventional 4-cycle bike oil where you live? You don't have to buy a synthetic. I only used the Mobil 1 as an example.

Regarding Z-alt, the quote I got from an independent dealer last year was about $10 per quart.

Posted By: Pyper70

Re: Might consider Rotella as base oil - 05/31/12 05:19 PM

Quote:

How much is a bottle of conventional 4-cycle bike oil where you live? You don't have to buy a synthetic. I only used the Mobil 1 as an example.

I'd have to check on that...never looked at bike oils

Posted By: Aero426

Re: Might consider Rotella as base oil - 05/31/12 05:37 PM

This is from a FAQ on oils written by a Porsche specialist about the use of motorcycle oils. I've heard him speak and he knows his stuff. This would work for your low mileage and changing the oil at the end/beginning of the season.

Why use a motorcycle oil?
Motorcycle oils have higher levels of phosphorus/zinc for enhanced wear protection and the same high-temperature detergent technology for superior wear protection and engine cleanliness, even at elevated oil temperatures. Specifically motorcycle oils for aircooled engines are designed for very high localized oil temperatures and high overall oil temperatures, and typically have high flash points coupled with higher HTHS viscosities and lower noack% losses. As a whole, it would appear that all most motorcycle oils we tested have excellent anti-wear additive levels and most are not SM or SN rated oils, but rather earlier SG, SH, or SJ rated. In a pinch, it should be fairly easy to find a motorcycle oil with any of these SG, SH, or SJ ratings at your local auto parts store when it may be more difficult to get Brad Penn or Swepco, without having it shipped to you. Please do remember that motorcycle oils typically have levels of Zn and P that will kill catalytic converters, so if you have one, either remove it first or use another oil, like Brad Penn or Swepco. Also, motorcycle oils are not as detergent as the aforementioned Brad Penn or Swepco, so you must change the oil much more often, even though the perception of being able to go longer because the oil costs more is a false one.

Posted By: RSNOMO

Re: Zinc Additive for oil....Best bang for the buck - 05/31/12 10:51 PM

Brad Penn...

Go green...

Posted By: 1MYTGTX

Re: Zinc Additive for oil....Best bang for the buck - 06/01/12 12:32 AM

I use Valvoline VR1 racing oil which has a high zinc content

Posted By: hooziewhatsit

Re: Zinc Additive for oil....Best bang for the buck - 06/01/12 01:19 AM

Do they have Delo 400 over there? I found the datasheet for the Low Emission 15w40 stuff and it still had plenty of Zinc and Phosphorous.

Posted By: topside

Re: Zinc Additive for oil....Best bang for the buck - 06/01/12 01:41 AM

It never occurred to me to look at motorcycle oil, but that's a good idea; eventually my stash of GM EOS is gonna run out...
I wonder if the European truck oils are cutting back on their package like the US oils had to?

Posted By: GwaiiEagle

Re: Zinc Additive for oil....Best bang for the buck - 06/01/12 02:33 AM

I use RedLine's

Posted By: Dunnuck Racing

Re: Zinc Additive for oil....Best bang for the buck - 06/01/12 02:41 AM

Quote:

I use Valvoline VR1 racing oil which has a high zinc content

I recently read a report from another race shop where he sent in several oils on his own to have them tested,both for anti wear additive content and an actual wear test.
VR1 conventional racing oil was better than a lot of so called racing oils that have twice the price tag. Even a bunch of high dollar synthetics.
I have been using Joe Gibbs racing oils for a few years but this test has me wondering.

As far as additives,Comp Cams sells one pretty reasonable.

Keith

Posted By: MidPenMopar

Re: Zinc Additive for oil....Best bang for the buck - 06/01/12 03:28 AM

Quote:

Brad Penn...

Go green...

Yep!!! That's what i use and out of them all even Amsoil it's still the best!!

Posted By: JohnRR

Re: Zinc Additive for oil....Best bang for the buck - 06/01/12 02:18 PM

It seems like a lot of the oils being talked about here are 20-50 , would one want to use these is a fresh motor with normal clearances and not the looser race engine clearances ?

Posted By: MidPenMopar

Re: Zinc Additive for oil....Best bang for the buck - 06/01/12 02:25 PM

I use Brad Penn 10W-30W now. Years ago i always used the 20W-50W but after some research and trying different viscosities the 10-30 works best for the engine in the roadrunner.

Posted By: DARTH V8Я

Re: Zinc Additive for oil....Best bang for the buck - 06/01/12 02:29 PM

20w50.. geez, how loose are you guys building your engines? lol. My 440 lived a very happy life on 5w-40, my 360 runs 5w30.

Posted By: tboomer

Re: Zinc Additive for oil....Best bang for the buck - 06/01/12 02:30 PM

10-30 Brad Penn here...Mine is a race engine. As it gets hotter outside,I will add Brad Penn 20-50 to get my oil pressure where I want it...

Posted By: JohnRR

Re: Zinc Additive for oil....Best bang for the buck - 06/01/12 03:44 PM

Quote:

20w50.. geez, how loose are you guys building your engines? lol. My 440 lived a very happy life on 5w-40, my 360 runs 5w30.

that's why I asked the question , race engine run on the loose side and I would typically use 20-50 in a high mileage engine as a bandaid to get the pressure up. anything that I can get LOCAL with hi zinc and not synthetic is 20-50 or straight 50. I'm looking for 10-40 but 10-30 would probably do , even the 4T motorcycle oil mentioned above is 20-50

Posted By: wally426ci

Re: Zinc Additive for oil....Best bang for the buck - 06/01/12 03:48 PM

I used to run 10/40 but heard that the process of producing 10/40 compared to 10/30 makes 10/30 a better choice.....

Posted By: Pyper70

Re: Zinc Additive for oil....Best bang for the buck - 06/01/12 04:06 PM

alright...alright guys...

When I deplete my current inventory of 20w50 (one more oil change) I'll be switching to 10w30...1 gallon of the Castrol GTX 20w50 goes for $55...

Posted By: 67Satty

Re: Zinc Additive for oil....Best bang for the buck - 06/01/12 04:17 PM

You can get Valvoline VR1 in 10W-30 from NAPA but you have to order it and then they have it the next day for you. O'Reilly's has it too but they make you order 12 at a time.

I was reading a Mopar Muscle dyno test article where they got an additional 15 hp in a mild 383 just by switching from 20W-50 to 5W-30. They still had plenty of oil pressure with the 5W-30.

Posted By: Ruppman

Re: Might consider Rotella as base oil - 06/01/12 05:38 PM

Quote:

How much is a bottle of conventional 4-cycle bike oil where you live? You don't have to buy a synthetic. I only used the Mobil 1 as an example.

Regarding Z-alt, the quote I got from an independent dealer last year was about $10 per quart.

Doug, I buy Valvoline motorcycle oil at Farm and Fleet for 4.69 a quart for 10w-40 or 20w-50 same price. Cheaper if it goes on sale. I didn't know cycle oils had more zinc in them, I buy it cause it has additives for the wet clutch on my air cooled Suzuki dirt bike. Also like has been mentioned, better high heat tolerance that aircooled bikes endure.

mark

Posted By: Aero426

Re: Might consider Rotella as base oil - 06/01/12 06:20 PM

Quote:

Quote:

How much is a bottle of conventional 4-cycle bike oil where you live? You don't have to buy a synthetic. I only used the Mobil 1 as an example.

Regarding Z-alt, the quote I got from an independent dealer last year was about $10 per quart.

Doug, I buy Valvoline motorcycle oil at Farm and Fleet for 4.69 a quart for 10w-40 or 20w-50 same price. Cheaper if it goes on sale. I didn't know cycle oils had more zinc in them, I buy it cause it has additives for the wet clutch on my air cooled Suzuki dirt bike. Also like has been mentioned, better high heat tolerance that aircooled bikes endure.

mark

Hi Mark! If you look at the back of the bike oils, they are typically at the old SG ratings or similar, which is what we want. Even though the detergent package isn't the same as a car oil, if you are changing oil regularly it shouldn't be a problem. A lot of dedicated racing oils also do not have the street detergent packages because they are in and out of the car so fast. Valvoline VR-1 in the silver bottle is an exception and is made for street use.

I think in the case of the OP in Greece, it comes down to these choices.

1. Diesel oil
2. Bike oil (ready to use off the shelf)
3. Purchase additive for modern oil
4. Buy Brad Penn / VR-1 / Z-Alt (but needs to be imported)

Posted By: 383man

Re: Might consider Rotella as base oil - 06/01/12 07:00 PM

I have used the Comp additive and also the Risoline additive which my local Pep Boys carries. Ron

Posted By: 70_FJ6_RR

Re: Zinc Additive for oil....Best bang for the buck - 06/01/12 07:07 PM

Quote:

Quote:

I use Valvoline VR1 racing oil which has a high zinc content

I recently read a report from another race shop where he sent in several oils on his own to have them tested,both for anti wear additive content and an actual wear test.
VR1 conventional racing oil was better than a lot of so called racing oils that have twice the price tag. Even a bunch of high dollar synthetics.
I have been using Joe Gibbs racing oils for a few years but this test has me wondering.

As far as additives,Comp Cams sells one pretty reasonable.

Keith

That's good info! That's what I use! At $4.39 a quart, you can't beat it!

Posted By: DARTH V8Я

Re: Zinc Additive for oil....Best bang for the buck - 06/01/12 10:52 PM

Quote:

Quote:

20w50.. geez, how loose are you guys building your engines? lol. My 440 lived a very happy life on 5w-40, my 360 runs 5w30.

that's why I asked the question , race engine run on the loose side and I would typically use 20-50 in a high mileage engine as a bandaid to get the pressure up. anything that I can get LOCAL with hi zinc and not synthetic is 20-50 or straight 50. I'm looking for 10-40 but 10-30 would probably do , even the 4T motorcycle oil mentioned above is 20-50

Can't remember the brand ( might be Penzoil? Farm use or some crap like that) but its advertised as 15w40.. suspose to be super high in zinc. IMO 20w50 is just to much, I've burst oil filters with 20w50 on a cold engine. But then again I don't have strickly race engines

My buddies 2010 F-150 uses Factory recommended 0W10 or simular

Take a looky looky: http://www.redlineoil.com/product.aspx?pid=12&pcid=1

Posted By: CUDA8U

Re: Zinc Additive for oil....Best bang for the buck - 06/01/12 10:57 PM

Lucas zinc additive for break in is what a shop i know uses

Posted By: ahy

Re: Zinc Additive for oil....Best bang for the buck - 06/02/12 12:05 AM

Quote:

Quote:

20w50.. geez, how loose are you guys building your engines? lol. My 440 lived a very happy life on 5w-40, my 360 runs 5w30.

that's why I asked the question , race engine run on the loose side and I would typically use 20-50 in a high mileage engine as a bandaid to get the pressure up. anything that I can get LOCAL with hi zinc and not synthetic is 20-50 or straight 50. I'm looking for 10-40 but 10-30 would probably do , even the 4T motorcycle oil mentioned above is 20-50

Local high zinc... you can usually find 10W30 Rotella T at Walmart. I run it for winter in an older brand F pickup. My Mopar gets 15W40 Rotella T. Both flat tappet.

Posted By: CompSyn

Re: Zinc Additive for oil....Best bang for the buck - 06/02/12 05:15 AM

Here's some industry standardized testing as per American Society for Testing and Materials (ASTM)

Quote:

ASTM D4172

Significance and Use

This test method can be used to determine the relative wear preventive properties of lubricating fluids in sliding contact under the prescribed test conditions. No attempt has been made to correlate this test with balls in rolling contact. The user of this test method should determine to his own satisfaction whether results of this test procedure correlate with field performance or other bench test machines.

1. Scope

1.1 This test method covers a procedure for making a preliminary evaluation of the anti-wear properties of fluid lubricants in sliding contact by means of the Four-Ball Wear Test Machine. Evaluation of lubricating grease using the same machine is detailed in Test Method D2266.

1.2 The values stated in SI units are to be regarded as the standard. The values given in parentheses are for information only. Cited: http://www.astm.org/Standards/D4172.htm

Posted By: Commando1

Re: Zinc Additive for oil....Best bang for the buck - 06/02/12 12:36 PM

Posted By: terzmo

Re: Zinc Additive for oil....Best bang for the buck - 06/02/12 01:01 PM

Quote:

20w50.. geez, how loose are you guys building your engines? lol. My 440 lived a very happy life on 5w-40, my 360 runs 5w30.

I'm old school and also exclusively use 20-50.....other's can/may be used (at the owner's risk) but I consider that if an engine is built to stock specs. There was no 5 dash anything in the 60's...BUT in the future I will spend the $$ and go roller and not wory about zinc....what's next....I use thr green stuff....no mixing...Brad Penn

used Valvoline ZR-1 and lost a cam after 15k

Posted By: Mapandjlp

Re: Zinc Additive for oil....Best bang for the buck - 06/02/12 01:09 PM

I use Joe Gibbs HR-2 10w-30. It's got a high zinc content plus it's formulated for vehicles that may sit for long periods between start-ups (sticks to parts). It's $8 a quart at my local speed shop.

Posted By: 62maxwgn

Re: Zinc Additive for oil....Best bang for the buck - 06/02/12 01:29 PM

Here is an analysis I had done a few years ago on Brad Penn 20/50 racing oil.Until you can actually show me one better I consider it top shelf and you don't need to run an additive.And for you guys that swear by Rotella,it aint what it used to be,you can say this is better than that but an analysis is the only way to know.!!

Posted By: ZIPPY

Re: Zinc Additive for oil....Best bang for the buck - 06/02/12 05:20 PM

It's probably better to already have the additive in the oil if possible. I usually use SL and older spec oils but only have so much old stuff in my stash. When it's used up that's it. At $1 a quart or less in many cases (most purchased on closeout), that's my best bang for the buck in oil.

For an additive to newer spec oils I like to use SLOB.
CD2 Street Legal Oil Boost. I bought a bunch of it on closeout for 50 cents a pint. Unfortunately it is not made anymore but while it was around, it was the best bang for the buck in an additive.

Here's an analysis of one pint to give an idea.
-------------------------------------------------------

Parameter: VOA Data (Manufacturer's data)

Zinc: 4898 ppm
Phosphorus: 4921 ppm
Calcium: 4279 ppm
Moly: 0 ppm
Vis @100C: 29.5 cSt