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Welding on axle housings damage anything?

Posted By: NicksGarage

Welding on axle housings damage anything? - 03/17/12 12:43 AM

I have a '64 Dodge 440 wagon and want to swap the rear axle to a later one to eliminate the tapered axles. I found a '67 Coronet wagon in the junkyard that has a decent looking axle with good brakes on it. Only thing is that someone welded coil spring mounts on top of the axle tubes right below the frame bumpers. I doubt that the welding caused any damage but want to make sure. If I get it I'll grind the mounts off as I don't want them. It didn't look like there were any axle leaks.
Posted By: topside

Re: Welding on axle housings damage anything? - 03/17/12 01:28 AM

May have warped or bent tubes, but can't tell unless you dismantle it and slide some bar or tube stock through the housing to verify. Don't know your wheel/tire combo, but if you narrow it to 53" you can get a 15x8 wheel (4.5BS) on there with up to about 12" of sidewall width; stock '66-'67 width means narrower sidewalls. Less than 53" makes it hard to access brake adjustments & get spring/tire clearance. I think Dr. Diff here sells a conversion bearing so you could just change your axles to the later style, but I'm not sure. Wagons seem tighter as far as wheelhouse width than sedans based on what I've read here, and all I know is my '63 & '64 wagons.
Posted By: BigBlockMopar

Re: Welding on axle housings damage anything? - 03/17/12 01:30 AM

The steel is just under 3/8" thick in that area.
I wouldn't worry about it.
Posted By: moparpollack

Re: Welding on axle housings damage anything? - 03/17/12 01:56 AM

If you look they are welded together from the factory. So welding on them won't be a problem.
Posted By: NicksGarage

Re: Welding on axle housings damage anything? - 03/17/12 01:56 AM

I'm not trying to put big wheels on the car, it's just a cruiser. I have 15" chrome road wheels on it now and they fit fine. From the axle comparison chart in the tech archives it shows the '67 axle being slightly narrower drum to drum than the '64 but that shouldn't cause me any issues.

I doubt I'll go get the thing this weekend as it's supposed to rain and that yard gets pretty mucked up. I actually first saw it a couple weeks ago when it was half-price day but it was close to closing time. It's only $88 regular price anyway but I need to drag a friend down there to help me with it so I don't throw my back out again.

Posted By: 70Cuda383

Re: Welding on axle housings damage anything? - 03/17/12 02:58 AM

I welded new caliper mounting brackets to an axle before. no problems at all.

Don't know if it was right or wrong, but I put a wet rag around the tube on the "back side" of where I was welding, to help keep things cool. I placed the rag on, THEN started to weld, so the metal never got "shocked" it did get hot and was hissing the water out of the rag, but I THINK it helped keep heat down on the axle tube itself.


Right or wrong, I put 4,000 miles on that axle with my big block Dakota without any problems, and my buddy is running it in his 318, T-56 Dakota that's his daily driver and has probably 10K miles on it since we put the axle in it last spring.
Posted By: 70Cuda383

Re: Welding on axle housings damage anything? - 03/17/12 02:59 AM

Oh, and I welded on it with the axles OUT of the tube....however, if I had it to do over again, I'd probably slide the axles in, just to help give something strong that might help prevent any distortion
Posted By: NicksGarage

Re: Welding on axle housings damage anything? - 03/17/12 04:02 AM

Quote:

If you look they are welded together from the factory. So welding on them won't be a problem.



I know that, but that is in a factory and the housings probably aren't welded with the axles, bearings and seals in there. Who knows what they did here, the welds were kind of sloppy too.
Posted By: 1_WILD_RT

Re: Welding on axle housings damage anything? - 03/17/12 04:08 AM

Quote:

Quote:

If you look they are welded together from the factory. So welding on them won't be a problem.



I know that, but that is in a factory and the housings probably aren't welded with the axles, bearings and seals in there. Who knows what they did here, the welds were kind of sloppy too.



Sloppy probably means they didn't get enough heat for a good weld... Which means they probably didn't hurt anything..
Posted By: savoy64

Re: Welding on axle housings damage anything? - 03/17/12 06:39 PM

use a cut off wheel to knock them off---if the axles arent leaking now the seals must be ok----worst case scenario would be time to replace the seals---bob
Posted By: BigBlockMopar

Re: Welding on axle housings damage anything? - 03/18/12 08:41 PM

Quote:

Oh, and I welded on it with the axles OUT of the tube....however, if I had it to do over again, I'd probably slide the axles in, just to help give something strong that might help prevent any distortion



Don't think for a minute that a pair of axles is doing anything for rigidity during welding.
Posted By: 6PakBee

Re: Welding on axle housings damage anything? - 03/18/12 10:11 PM

Welding thicker pieces is just like welding sheet metal. A little at a time and you'll be fine. Remember, anything that is welded gets smaller once it cools.
Posted By: Dakota_Don

Re: Welding on axle housings damage anything? - 03/18/12 11:35 PM

Quote:

I'm not trying to put big wheels on the car, it's just a cruiser. I have 15" chrome road wheels on it now and they fit fine. From the axle comparison chart in the tech archives it shows the '67 axle being slightly narrower drum to drum than the '64 but that shouldn't cause me any issues.

I doubt I'll go get the thing this weekend as it's supposed to rain and that yard gets pretty mucked up. I actually first saw it a couple weeks ago when it was half-price day but it was close to closing time. It's only $88 regular price anyway but I need to drag a friend down there to help me with it so I don't throw my back out again.







I love your wagon
Posted By: Scott Carl

Re: Welding on axle housings damage anything? - 03/19/12 12:54 AM

Quote:

I welded new caliper mounting brackets to an axle before. no problems at all.

Don't know if it was right or wrong, but I put a wet rag around the tube on the "back side" of where I was welding, to help keep things cool. I placed the rag on, THEN started to weld, so the metal never got "shocked" it did get hot and was hissing the water out of the rag, but I THINK it helped keep heat down on the axle tube itself.


Right or wrong, I put 4,000 miles on that axle with my big block Dakota without any problems, and my buddy is running it in his 318, T-56 Dakota that's his daily driver and has probably 10K miles on it since we put the axle in it last spring.



Actually you would have been better off letting the heat dissipate into the rest of the axle housing. Isolating it with wet rags caused more heat build up in the end of the axle. Probably still no big deal in this case but it could be a factor when welding on something longer or if it were out in the middle of the axle shaft.
Posted By: 70Cuda383

Re: Welding on axle housings damage anything? - 03/19/12 01:50 AM

Quote:

Quote:

I welded new caliper mounting brackets to an axle before. no problems at all.

Don't know if it was right or wrong, but I put a wet rag around the tube on the "back side" of where I was welding, to help keep things cool. I placed the rag on, THEN started to weld, so the metal never got "shocked" it did get hot and was hissing the water out of the rag, but I THINK it helped keep heat down on the axle tube itself.


Right or wrong, I put 4,000 miles on that axle with my big block Dakota without any problems, and my buddy is running it in his 318, T-56 Dakota that's his daily driver and has probably 10K miles on it since we put the axle in it last spring.



Actually you would have been better off letting the heat dissipate into the rest of the axle housing. Isolating it with wet rags caused more heat build up in the end of the axle. Probably still no big deal in this case but it could be a factor when welding on something longer or if it were out in the middle of the axle shaft.



the mount pads were about 4" from the end of the tube, and the wet rag was on the outside of the plate, keeping the heat out of the end of the tube. I didn't put anything on the welded side of the flange because I didn't want water cracking/contaminating the welds as they cooled off.
Posted By: 70Cuda383

Re: Welding on axle housings damage anything? - 03/19/12 01:51 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Oh, and I welded on it with the axles OUT of the tube....however, if I had it to do over again, I'd probably slide the axles in, just to help give something strong that might help prevent any distortion



Don't think for a minute that a pair of axles is doing anything for rigidity during welding.



no, they definitely are not the same as a secure mounted welding jig, but surely having the axle shafts in the tubes anchored into the differential and held in place with the wheel bearings, would be stronger than just air in the axle tubes?
Posted By: BigBlockMopar

Re: Welding on axle housings damage anything? - 03/19/12 10:37 AM

Quote:

no, they definitely are not the same as a secure mounted welding jig, but surely having the axle shafts in the tubes anchored into the differential and held in place with the wheel bearings, would be stronger than just air in the axle tubes?




In worst case the axles will bend aswell.
You cannot prevent warpage when welding by trying to force steel to stay in position. The only way to prevent warpage is to carefully apply the (welding)heat.

Even a welding jig is just there to keep parts aligned before welding.
Any significant warpage that is present after welding can usually be corrected again by applying heat in the right locations.
There are some clips on youtube on this subject.
Posted By: Todd

Re: Welding on axle housings damage anything? - 03/19/12 01:15 PM

I ground and rewelded all the joints on this one. The welds were really gross looking and some had cracks. Took it to the rearend guy and had it checked and was perfect.

Attached picture 7125510-2012-03-10_13-38-55_706.jpg
Posted By: 70Cuda383

Re: Welding on axle housings damage anything? - 03/19/12 03:34 PM

Quote:

Quote:

no, they definitely are not the same as a secure mounted welding jig, but surely having the axle shafts in the tubes anchored into the differential and held in place with the wheel bearings, would be stronger than just air in the axle tubes?




In worst case the axles will bend aswell.
You cannot prevent warpage when welding by trying to force steel to stay in position. The only way to prevent warpage is to carefully apply the (welding)heat.

Even a welding jig is just there to keep parts aligned before welding.
Any significant warpage that is present after welding can usually be corrected again by applying heat in the right locations.
There are some clips on youtube on this subject.



Ok. thanks for the info.

guess this amateur got lucky welding on axle tubes, and didn't get any warping.
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