Re: NEW! AMSOIL Dominator Synthetic 10W-30 Racing Oil.
[Re: moper]
#98205
08/05/08 11:53 AM
08/05/08 11:53 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439 Val-haul-ass... eventually
BradH
OP
Taking time off to work on my car
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OP
Taking time off to work on my car
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439
Val-haul-ass... eventually
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You post these on purpose, don't you
Who, ME???
One other comment re: Valvoline "NSL" "Not Street Legal" has no (or very little) detergents blended into it, so it's not the best stuff for a street car driven infrequently, unfortunately. Perhaps a mix of VR1 and NSL... /
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Re: NEW! AMSOIL Dominator Synthetic 10W-30 Racing Oil.
[Re: BradH]
#98206
08/05/08 12:09 PM
08/05/08 12:09 PM
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,285 Pacific NW USA
CompSyn
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,285
Pacific NW USA
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Why do these, oil threads, always turn into an Amsoil ads?
FWIW, I run Amsoil in my Subaru WRX and think they make high-quality products. My RR has only been driven about 600 miles in the last two years since I changed the oil last. I'm having a hard time spending $10/qt for oil that gets drained on a time vs. usage basis thousands of miles before it's earned it's keep. I figure for such low usage I'm better off draining a less expensive oil more frequently to deal w/ the condensation issues, etc., that result from sitting for extended periods of time between drives.
Brad,
Your concern in regards condensation issues is warranted. Have you considered Used Oil Analysis (UOA) to find out the actual condition of the oil when drained? Perhaps you could extend the oil change interval (OCI) past the 600-mile/24-month interval based off of UOAs?
I’d also consider the level of protection you’re getting with a top tier lubricant. I reason a extra coins per quart of oil could easily “earn its keep” when the alternative could be a premature engine rebuild.
CompSyn
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Re: NEW! AMSOIL Dominator Synthetic 10W-30 Racing Oil.
[Re: moper]
#98207
08/05/08 03:09 PM
08/05/08 03:09 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,186 Wherever I am.
Junky
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,186
Wherever I am.
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Brad, there are two types of VR1... One is the API SM rated, which as I understand it cannot have the 1300ppm as you already know. Published tests shown it to have somewhere around that 800ppm level. The other is VR1 that is labeled as "not legal for public highway use". That rule applies to vehicles that were required to have catalytic convertors. So you'd be fine. That's the VR1 I use for "special" cams and that stuff actually smells a little like gear lube, and looks and feels different than modern oils. It's the cam, not the whole engine. If you have a lot of spring, it will not last with any SM oil currently for sale even if the tappets rotate and the thing fires instantaneously and is broken in on the outers alone. Fast rate lobes need spring. I use 320lbs open. If you exceed that, use the VR1 offroad. If not, break it in with VR1 offroad, maybe give it a few hundred miles of seating time, then you can run a std 10-30 or thicker. IMO, one cannot use a factory rating to figure out oiling when the book was written 40 years ago and the engine is no longer using springs with 180lbs open and no lobe lift. The class of SM oils has the same protection as the earlier ratings, minus anything the EPA mandated out for additives. I wont run anything rated newer than SJ on the bottle. It's at least old stock and has the higher zink. But getting harder to find.
You post these on purpose, don't you
I don't know what the VR1 is as far as SM goes, but it IS for racing AND street use. CLICK HERE
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Re: NEW! AMSOIL Dominator Synthetic 10W-30 Racing Oil.
[Re: Junky]
#98208
08/05/08 05:00 PM
08/05/08 05:00 PM
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 141 MN
mnguy55
member
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member
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 141
MN
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Quote:
Quote:
Brad, there are two types of VR1... One is the API SM rated, which as I understand it cannot have the 1300ppm as you already know. Published tests shown it to have somewhere around that 800ppm level. The other is VR1 that is labeled as "not legal for public highway use". That rule applies to vehicles that were required to have catalytic convertors. So you'd be fine. That's the VR1 I use for "special" cams and that stuff actually smells a little like gear lube, and looks and feels different than modern oils. It's the cam, not the whole engine. If you have a lot of spring, it will not last with any SM oil currently for sale even if the tappets rotate and the thing fires instantaneously and is broken in on the outers alone. Fast rate lobes need spring. I use 320lbs open. If you exceed that, use the VR1 offroad. If not, break it in with VR1 offroad, maybe give it a few hundred miles of seating time, then you can run a std 10-30 or thicker. IMO, one cannot use a factory rating to figure out oiling when the book was written 40 years ago and the engine is no longer using springs with 180lbs open and no lobe lift. The class of SM oils has the same protection as the earlier ratings, minus anything the EPA mandated out for additives. I wont run anything rated newer than SJ on the bottle. It's at least old stock and has the higher zink. But getting harder to find.
You post these on purpose, don't you
I don't know what the VR1 is as far as SM goes, but it IS for racing AND street use. CLICK HERE
Valvoline has 3 racing oils.
Racing VR1 Racing Motor Oil
Racing Synthetic Racing Oil
Racing Conventional Racing Oil
VR1 is labled as a API rated SM oil that has 1300 PPM zinc. http://www.valvoline.com/products/VR-1%20Racing%20Motor%20Oil.pdf
VR1 is labled for street or race use.
The other two oils are labled not street legal and dont have API ratings.
SM was introduced in November 2004.
I used the Valvoline tech email and asked them:
"Does VR1 that is currently being shipped still have the same zinc content (0.130) as this link indicates: http://www.valvoline.com/products/VR-1 Racing Motor Oil.pdf The sheet at this link is dated 2006. Many in the collector car community believe that VR1 has been reduced below the zinc level show in that 2006 vintage link in order to meet the SM rating."
to which the Valvoline rep replied:
"The Valvoline VR1 Racing Oil has never changed in the Zinc content. VR1 has always contained 1300 ppm or .130% of Zinc. Here is the real story behind the myth. With ever increasing limits on emissions, automobile manufacturers have tightened emission control systems on newer vehicles. This is one of several factors considered when the American Petroleum Institute (API) sets standards for engine oil. The current API standard is “SM,” which replaced the previous “SL” classification. Because phosphorus can poison a vehicle’s emission system, the level of zinc is lower for current engine oil. Because of this, many hands-on car enthusiasts and engine experts believe the lower levels of zinc in “SM” engine oil is causing excessive wear in older style push-rod and flat tappet engines. This is despite the fact that all new engine oil classifications are intended to be backward compatible, which in turn has resulted in the widely accepted belief that modern engine oil is not adequate to protect older engines. Valvoline uses an advanced zinc/phosphorus additive that keeps higher levels of phosphorus in the engine oil where it protects the engine, instead of poisoning the catalytic converter. Valvoline is the only brand offering this unique additive across its entire line of passenger car engine oils, including SynPower which is the only synthetic offering this additive. The only exclusion to the would be if you are operating a high performance or aggressive cam application, where high Zinc levels may be required. Because of these requirements, there are high-zinc engine oils available to meet this need, such as our Valvoline VR1 Racing Oil. The VR1 Racing Oil establishes a 75% higher zinc content than SM engine oil with a balanced additive package designed to work in both racing and street-legal applications. This product will protect older style push-rod and flat tappet engines and carries an oil change interval recommendation of 3 month/3,000 miles. It is important to note, however, that the entire additive package still needs to be balanced for best performance. For example, engine oil with a high zinc level but low detergent may not perform over a drain interval of 3,000 miles or longer."
So, Valvoline flat out claims that the current VR1 contains 1300 PPM zinc.
Have there been tests on VR1 indicating something less than that? Where? I'm not saying Valvoline is right, I just want proof they arent.
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