Re: Yet another 383 question...I know Im killin you guys...
[Re: court9155]
#973316
04/15/11 01:00 PM
04/15/11 01:00 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,675 Columbia, CT
moper
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,675
Columbia, CT
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I believe you and I wasn't even a glimmer in Dad's eye in '68. But I also believe the factory and subsequent dealerships did some things that were never mentioned... Like a mechanic blowing up the original Hemi on the PDI test drive. I know the mechanic that got fired for it (much older than me but story was verified...lol). The owner of the new car was not told there was a warranty longblock in it from the day before they picked it up... Or the new unsold cars that got full repaints after they were backed off a carrier with the upper deck a hair too low (happened when I was working at the dealership). You can never say never with mopar (or dealerships). Blueprint spec is just that. Unfortuntely, the factory never blueprinted anything and I've yet to see a 383 deck that was even close to blueprint spec. As Johnsaid, I've only seen about 8 of them... Not a real big representation honestly but with no exceptions and similar findings on all factory engines regardless of displacement I trust the trend......lol.
Well, art is art, isn't it? Still, on the other hand, water is water! And east is east and west is west and if you take cranberries and stew them like applesauce they taste much more like prunes than rhubarb does. Now, uh... Now you tell me what you know.
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Re: Yet another 383 question...I know Im killin you guys...
[Re: court9155]
#973318
04/15/11 01:18 PM
04/15/11 01:18 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,675 Columbia, CT
moper
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,675
Columbia, CT
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It frightened me enought hat if I ever get to the point of buying a special brand new car, I'm not letting it get PDI'd...lol. My buddy picked up his new SS Camaro at the Canadian border...lol.
Well, art is art, isn't it? Still, on the other hand, water is water! And east is east and west is west and if you take cranberries and stew them like applesauce they taste much more like prunes than rhubarb does. Now, uh... Now you tell me what you know.
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Re: Yet another 383 question...I know Im killin you guys...
[Re: court9155]
#973319
04/15/11 02:28 PM
04/15/11 02:28 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,282 A gulag near you.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,282
A gulag near you.
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Quote:
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Yes it is , I have factory originals and a set that have been ported , I'm going to run them both on the engine if I get the chance to dyno it before I put it in, should be sometime next month. I'm also going to throw on a set of B body manifolds to see what the HP difference is with those.
All this going to be done on an engine dyno then?
Be neat to see what the differences were at the wheels with the entire exhaust system and drivetrain factored in.
Anyway what are do you live in? Maybe check it out in person when you get around to it.
Would you consider checking power output (on the engine dyno of course) with a C body HP manifold if I sent you one?
Dan
Send me a check and I'll test all the manifolds you want.
I have a C body drivers side HP also but hadn't planned on that one though , I only have so much time to get this done.
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Re: Yet another 383 question...I know Im killin you guys...
[Re: MoparforLife]
#973320
04/15/11 02:34 PM
04/15/11 02:34 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,282 A gulag near you.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,282
A gulag near you.
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FWIW I know a couple of guys that put closed chamber heads on a 68/9 383 and had piston clearance problems because of the o/+ deck height of the engine. It isn't all BS. Some were + some were very close to deck.
Only 3 ways this could have happen, someone decked the blocks, the factory screwed up and the deck was way too short which means they would have had to cut the intake or head to get it bolted together or they had something that was very special that no one knew about. I have 2 69 383HP engines in my garage with the heads off, both are factory deck and both still have their factory rotating assemblies, neither have pistons above the deck. Now I know that 2 hardly makes a sample, but I have had others in the past and everything was the same.
There was a guy that I used to work with, he's dead now, that ordered a 68 Road Runner NEW that he CLAIMED was some special 365HP package to run against the Chevelle SS with the 375HP 396. I never could find anything out about this and he was known as somewhat of a BSer so I just took it as that.
Until someone SHOWS me one of these MYTHICAL positive deck 383's or some factory documentation they are nothing more than unicorns ....
OK fine< >You guys seem to have all the answers whether you were there or not so according to you it and couldn't have happened. It happened and I WAS there. Don't remember seeing any of you around. PS: one was a 68 383 RR with less then 3000 miles - other 383 runner with about 6000 miles.
There has to be more to this story, all they did was change heads , nothing else ?
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Re: Yet another 383 question...I know Im killin you guys...
[Re: MoparforLife]
#973322
04/15/11 07:36 PM
04/15/11 07:36 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,333 Prospect, PA
BSB67
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,333
Prospect, PA
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FWIW I know a couple of guys that put closed chamber heads on a 68/9 383 and had piston clearance problems because of the o/+ deck height of the engine. It isn't all BS. Some were + some were very close to deck.
Only 3 ways this could have happen, someone decked the blocks, the factory screwed up and the deck was way too short which means they would have had to cut the intake or head to get it bolted together or they had something that was very special that no one knew about. I have 2 69 383HP engines in my garage with the heads off, both are factory deck and both still have their factory rotating assemblies, neither have pistons above the deck. Now I know that 2 hardly makes a sample, but I have had others in the past and everything was the same.
There was a guy that I used to work with, he's dead now, that ordered a 68 Road Runner NEW that he CLAIMED was some special 365HP package to run against the Chevelle SS with the 375HP 396. I never could find anything out about this and he was known as somewhat of a BSer so I just took it as that.
Until someone SHOWS me one of these MYTHICAL positive deck 383's or some factory documentation they are nothing more than unicorns ....
OK fine< >You guys seem to have all the answers whether you were there or not so according to you it and couldn't have happened. It happened and I WAS there. Don't remember seeing any of you around. PS: one was a 68 383 RR with less then 3000 miles - other 383 runner with about 6000 miles.
The three that I have personal experiance with were all below deck - and I'm not saying that none were above. One of them was like .007+ below.
Was there contact just turning it over? The MP shim gasket, for a bunch on years, was actually 0.018" thick. Even with a piston a few below the deck, could still have contacted the head when run.
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Re: Yet another 383 question...I know Im killin you guys...
[Re: BSB67]
#973324
04/15/11 09:24 PM
04/15/11 09:24 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 393 ILLinois
DartGTS
super street
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super street
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 393
ILLinois
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Hello: Quote:
"The 68-69 383 4bbl. is the only 383 to have been built with positive deck height from the factory. The blueprinting manuals list it as +.020 to +.021"
?????
Your source for this information "Blueprinting manuals"
Maynard
Last edited by DartGTS; 04/15/11 09:25 PM.
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Re: Yet another 383 question...I know Im killin you guys...
[Re: DartGTS]
#973325
04/15/11 10:29 PM
04/15/11 10:29 PM
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 301 California
court9155
OP
enthusiast
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OP
enthusiast
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 301
California
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Did some measurin and math
383 67 casting .030 overbore with 1.90 compression height 516 heads stock valve size...I honestly guessed at 84cc as the chamber volume head gasket is 4.410 bore with .039 compressed thickness I measure an average of piston in the hole .034
Do the math and this is about 8.8:1
Run the range from 78cc to 90cc and its from as low as 8.3:1 and as high as 9.3:1
Not really gonna cc the heads as I have never personally done this and would have to have the machine shop do it and the motor, tho rebuilt, has about 10K miles on it so there is some carbon and what not in the chambers.
I was gonna throw this 474 purpleshaft in it that I happen to have but now Im thinkin maybe find a cam that will cater to the lower compression...any recommendations??
Should I use a thinner headgasket? Have the heads shaved?
I did notice hardened seats in the heads so they may be milled.
I dont want a total dog gotta do burnouts for my son!!....about to sell this damn motor (good runner just not a powerhouse) and build a decent 440......
67 charger
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Re: Yet another 383 question...I know Im killin you guys...
[Re: court9155]
#973326
04/15/11 11:50 PM
04/15/11 11:50 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 393 ILLinois
DartGTS
super street
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super street
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 393
ILLinois
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Re: Yet another 383 question...I know Im killin you guys...
[Re: BSB67]
#973333
04/16/11 11:44 AM
04/16/11 11:44 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,282 A gulag near you.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,282
A gulag near you.
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Quote:
Did you consider one of those driver side C body manifolds with the modified/welded - full diameter - exit? Are they still available?
I could make one out of the c body manifold I have . I'm not to concerned with exhaust on this, the car is being built to run at either the Pure Stock Drags or the FAST/Supercar series and I have to have stock manifolds. I test fitted the C body manifold on the Dart , I could easily make a headpipe to use it unmodified .
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Re: Yet another 383 question...I know Im killin you guys...
[Re: DartGTS]
#973334
04/16/11 11:45 AM
04/16/11 11:45 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,282 A gulag near you.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,282
A gulag near you.
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Quote:
Hello: Quote:
"The 68-69 383 4bbl. is the only 383 to have been built with positive deck height from the factory. The blueprinting manuals list it as +.020 to +.021"
?????
Your source for this information "Blueprinting manuals"
Maynard
Don't give up .
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Re: Yet another 383 question...I know Im killin you guys...
[Re: superbyrd]
#973335
04/16/11 11:50 AM
04/16/11 11:50 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,282 A gulag near you.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,282
A gulag near you.
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Quote:
i currently own 5 (too many friends/acquaintances who yanked original engines for built 440's) 68-70 383hp's,all are low mile,never been disassembled bottom ends. the deepest in the hole on any is .006 in the hole,the shallowest (the one in the pics) is .002 in the hole.
.006 in the hole , that is one of the unicorn taller than factory deck height blocks I keep hearing about ...
I'll never doubt they exist again , thank you .
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