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What's the rule? (Bracket racing)(kind of long)
#965808
04/04/11 03:15 PM
04/04/11 03:15 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 136
Dallas, TX
440Brian
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So I'm at the Texas Motorplex on Sunday and my buddy is racing in the Final. Both cars are staged, the tree comes down, his opponent takes off (about 2 sec head start), green light. My buddy hits the throttle as his own side of the tree starts down. The car backfires and dies. His opponent runs it out all the way out and breaks out. My buddy is just sitting at the starting line, didn't move forward or back. I get out of the golf cart and start walking to the starting line. The win light comes on for the opponent. Before I get to the starting line, my buddy re-fires his car and goes down the track.
I don't want to whine and complain about this, but it seems odd to me. My buddies car screwed up, so in all fainess, the other guy should get the win. But I was thinking the First or Worst rule applied here. I asked the starter why my buddy didn't win, he said because the other guy did (LOL). When pressed, he said he just starts the tree, the tower did it.
I walk up to the tower and ask the Competition Director what the rule is on that and how did it happen. She said it was because his car died. I asked if that was the rule, then she gave me a different answer about time. I asked her what the rule was on how much time are they allowed and she said it's listed in the track rules on the website (that's a lie). When asked if this situation was covered by those rules, she got a little huffy and said, I have a race to run (one more Jr Dragster final). I left (like I say, I don't want to come off as a complainer/whiner).
My buddy went up there later and at least figured out how they did it (entered/selected broke in the timing computer, Compulink with Autostart).
I'm thinking the right answer would fall under Starter's Discretion. Can't say my buddy or me are too upset about it (difference in payout was $70 vs. <$300, it is the Motorplex), but it's mostly not getting a straight answer.
Anybody else have this happen and what was the rule?
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Re: What's the rule? (Bracket racing)(kind of long)
[Re: 440Brian]
#965809
04/04/11 03:22 PM
04/04/11 03:22 PM
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 20,678
in a cattle trailer down by th...
Guitar Jones
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I think it's simple, break out, you lose, but your buddy didn't trip the light until they had already turned the win light on.
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Re: What's the rule? (Bracket racing)(kind of long)
[Re: 440Brian]
#965810
04/04/11 03:33 PM
04/04/11 03:33 PM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,506
Az
Crizila
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Well, one thing is for sure - your buddy's apponent is a complete idiot  . Not sure what the correct answer is on the rest, but once you turn on the second stage light, you are supposed to be ready to go - i.e. if the motor is running when he turns on the second light, it needs to stay running. Just a guess on my part. Could be some type of time limit involved also.
Fastest 300
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Re: What's the rule? (Bracket racing)(kind of long)
[Re: Guitar Jones]
#965811
04/04/11 03:34 PM
04/04/11 03:34 PM
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 2,110
toledo, ohio
plasticfantastic
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it is first or worse...
heres the deal as how I see it, there is an amount of time in the system given to each race before that round is "timed out." (you cant backfire off the line and sit there for 5 minutes trying to refire), theres a time limit built into the system for each individual run down the track to be completed before the computer resets itself, when it resets itself for the next pair, it enteres as a default that the opponent that did not finish the race broke, normally when you run a bye/single you can take the green light and back out and still get the win, but when you are side by side you have to cross the finish line.
both cars took green lights (I'm assuming?), your buddy back fired and sat there dead in the water, the other guy goes down the track and breaks out. your buddy is sitting there and the computer is counting down the time waiting for your buddy to cross the finish line and end the race. After the allowed time for that round, he didnt finish and got timeed out, he didnt finish the race and lost.
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Re: What's the rule? (Bracket racing)(kind of long)
[Re: Crizila]
#965812
04/04/11 03:36 PM
04/04/11 03:36 PM
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 2,110
toledo, ohio
plasticfantastic
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Quote:
Well, one thing is for sure - your buddy's apponent is a complete idiot .
I totally agree, see this stuff all the time and just dont get it why racers DONT PAY ATTENTION TO WHAT THIER OPPONENT IS DOING.
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Re: What's the rule? (Bracket racing)(kind of long)
[Re: plasticfantastic]
#965814
04/04/11 03:41 PM
04/04/11 03:41 PM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 9,366
Lehigh Acres, Florida
rickstershemi
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Quote:
Quote:
Well, one thing is for sure - your buddy's apponent is a complete idiot . Not sure what the correct answer is on the rest, but once you turn on the second stage light, you are supposed to be ready to go - i.e. if the motor is running when he turns on the second light, it needs to stay running. Just a guess on my part. Could be some type of time limit involved also.
the other guy is more of an idiot... got those blinders on and not aware of what his opponent is doing, breaks out... should have lifted like a good racer would and ensure the win... He got LUCKY, but still an idiot.
More than likely....his opponent saw his win light and ran it out on purpose....like any good racer would 
Rickster
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Re: What's the rule? (Bracket racing)(kind of long)
[Re: rickstershemi]
#965816
04/04/11 03:43 PM
04/04/11 03:43 PM
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 2,110
toledo, ohio
plasticfantastic
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Quote:
Doesn't matter if your fully staged, if you don't break the beam you're out....so unfortunately even though the other guy broke out he still wins.....that's the rule
Rickster
if he didnt break the stage beam at all, like the car backfired and he sat on the line still staged, the computer will sit there forever waiting for him to take off, his lane doesnt start til he breaks his beams.
i'm assuming his buddy moved out of the stage beams at least to start the timing system.
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Re: What's the rule? (Bracket racing)(kind of long)
[Re: rickstershemi]
#965817
04/04/11 03:45 PM
04/04/11 03:45 PM
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 2,110
toledo, ohio
plasticfantastic
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Quote:
More than likely....his opponent saw his win light and ran it out on purpose....like any good racer would
Rickster
the win light doesnt come on unless the other car red lights, if his buddy red lit, there wouldnt be a post here.
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Re: What's the rule? (Bracket racing)(kind of long)
[Re: BloFish]
#965818
04/04/11 03:48 PM
04/04/11 03:48 PM
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 2,110
toledo, ohio
plasticfantastic
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Quote:
But in addition to breaking the bulb, I thought you had to at least make it down the track 
only when paired with another car, if it was a single or a bye run you normally can take the green, break the beams and back out saving your junk for the next round.
At least at the track I work at thats how it is.
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Re: What's the rule? (Bracket racing)(kind of long)
[Re: plasticfantastic]
#965819
04/04/11 04:05 PM
04/04/11 04:05 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,528
Mansfield, Tx
Jacob Pitt
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Your buddy got screwed. I've seen this happen many times, as long as he gets it re-fired and breaks the beams and heads down the track he wins. The win light should not have come on until he was given that chance. Those girls running the Motorplex don't have a clue as to what they are doing, which would explain why it is the only track in the metroplex I will NOT go to.
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Re: What's the rule? (Bracket racing)(kind of long)
[Re: 440Brian]
#965822
04/04/11 04:20 PM
04/04/11 04:20 PM
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 2,110
toledo, ohio
plasticfantastic
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Quote:
i'm assuming his buddy moved out of the stage beams at least to start the timing system.
My buddy didn't move (until he re-fired and ran down the track).
I've never operated the compulink system, my knowledge is with operating TSI, so what it sounds like to me is that the tower "aborted" the run before your buddy got to make his full pass,
in which case the computer was programed with a pair of cars, one of those cars crossed the finish line, your buddy is sitting there trying to refire, tower hit the abort run button and the computer has to choose which car won, the one that crossed the finish line or the one that never broke the beams? you have to break the beams to win a race.
if the tower "aborted" the run before he got refired, thats why the other guy got the win light. Basically the computer operator messed up and jumped the gun on the deal hitting a button too soon.
nobody wants to admit they messed up, especially in a final round like that, so that would probably be why you got the run around like you did.
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Re: What's the rule? (Bracket racing)(kind of long)
[Re: plasticfantastic]
#965823
04/04/11 05:15 PM
04/04/11 05:15 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 136
Dallas, TX
440Brian
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Quote:
Quote:
i'm assuming his buddy moved out of the stage beams at least to start the timing system.
My buddy didn't move (until he re-fired and ran down the track).
I've never operated the compulink system, my knowledge is with operating TSI, so what it sounds like to me is that the tower "aborted" the run before your buddy got to make his full pass,
in which case the computer was programed with a pair of cars, one of those cars crossed the finish line, your buddy is sitting there trying to refire, tower hit the abort run button and the computer has to choose which car won, the one that crossed the finish line or the one that never broke the beams? you have to break the beams to win a race.
if the tower "aborted" the run before he got refired, thats why the other guy got the win light. Basically the computer operator messed up and jumped the gun on the deal hitting a button too soon.
nobody wants to admit they messed up, especially in a final round like that, so that would probably be why you got the run around like you did.
This makes the most sense to me. My buddy used the term "broke" (he has worked in the tower before), but it sounds like they aborted the run (same thing, different systems?). I wonder if my buddy had rolled forward somehow, they would have gave him enough time to re-fire? The weaselly thing was her telling me to go talk to the starter because it was something he did. 
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Re: What's the rule? (Bracket racing)(kind of long)
[Re: 440Brian]
#965824
04/04/11 05:28 PM
04/04/11 05:28 PM
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Joined: Jun 2004
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toledo, ohio
plasticfantastic
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Quote:
This makes the most sense to me. My buddy used the term "broke" (he has worked in the tower before), but it sounds like they aborted the run (same thing, different systems?). I wonder if my buddy had rolled forward somehow, they would have gave him enough time to re-fire? The weaselly thing was her telling me to go talk to the starter because it was something he did.
They should have given him time to refire no matter what. At the track I work at, its 30 seconds, or the starters discretion.
In 2004, at a race I was the Competition Director at, (different track) we had something like this happen...
Super Pro final round, a dragster and a door car, door car gets the spot, takes off, dragster pops and dies on the line still sitting in the stage beams, door car never lifts and breaks out, we gave the dragster 30 seconds (IIRC) to refire and break the beams/get down track. he did and won $1500.
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Re: What's the rule? (Bracket racing)(kind of long)
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#965825
04/04/11 05:28 PM
04/04/11 05:28 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 136
Dallas, TX
440Brian
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... so either the win light came on well after the car crossed the line or someone triggered the system for the next pair of cars 
You are correct. The win light for the opponent came on some time after he had crossed the finish line, not immediately.
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Re: What's the rule? (Bracket racing)(kind of long)
[Re: 440Brian]
#965826
04/04/11 05:36 PM
04/04/11 05:36 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,953
Houston, Texas
TheOtherDodge
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What kind of dial in were yall running? You said the other car trip his finish line light and it was still a bit before your buddy fired up his car. Was this a 15 second car or a 8 second car? Really, if the other car crosses the finish line well before the car he is racing even begins to move, the race is over.
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Re: What's the rule? (Bracket racing)(kind of long)
[Re: TheOtherDodge]
#965827
04/04/11 05:57 PM
04/04/11 05:57 PM
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 2,110
toledo, ohio
plasticfantastic
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Quote:
What kind of dial in were yall running?
You said the other car trip his finish line light and it was still a bit before your buddy fired up his car. Was this a 15 second car or a 8 second car?
Really, if the other car crosses the finish line well before the car he is racing even begins to move, the race is over.
his buddy gave the slower car a 2 second spot. the slower car broke out, the race isnt over at that point.
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