Re: MSD Ignition systems VS Mopar Performance....
[Re: Kern Dog]
#949771
03/13/11 07:39 AM
03/13/11 07:39 AM
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 357 Lake Elmo, MN
Evil Monkey
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 357
Lake Elmo, MN
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I ran the MSD 6A unit in my Cuda for a long time - I bought it in the mid '90s. I kept my Mopar distributor, and kept the ECM and all wiring in place, but disconnected, so that if the MSD box ever went out, I could quickly switch back over to the Mopar ignition and be back on the road. The MSD box never failed, so I have never needed the backup system. I finally replaced the MSD with a Crane Hi-6 multiple spark ignition that has an adjustable rev limiter built in, and put the MSD box in a 5th Ave. I took the MSD box out when I junked the 5th Ave, and if I put it in a car today, it would still work. I haven't had any problems with the Crane box that replaced the MSD box either, so they both have been very reliable for me.
The Multi spark boxes really won't give you more power - they only send multiple sparks at lower RPMs. I believe that by the time you hit 3000 RPM they are only sending a single spark. The thing they do is to give you a better idle, and you might get a little better low end torque due to getting a more complete burn at lower RPMs because of the multiple sparks. However, I've never seen any real world data on that, so you may not get much more, if any, low end torque.
I had the MSD box mounted on the firewall of my Cuda, next to the ECU. When I swapped over to the Crane box, I built a small shelf under my dash, next to the radio, and mounted it there. When I installed the MSD box in my 5th Ave, I mounted it behind the drivers side kick panel. I've also heard of people mounting the boxes under the battery tray. My thoughts on mounting position are that heat causes problems with electronics, so mount it in a place that stays relatively cool, which is why I went under the dash with the Crane box - it may not be the coolest place in the car, but it's cooler than under the hood.
Summit has the MSD 6AL for $205, and then you would need to buy one of their RPM chip kits to set the rev limiter for another $28. The reason I changed boxes in the Cuda was to get a rev limiter (the 6 A that I had has no limiter), and I went with the Crane box because they have a dial adjuster for the rev limiter so you don't need to change chips if you want to adjust the rev limit. It's also digital, rather than the analog MSD 6AL box. Summit sells the Crane Hi-6 for $250.
1974 'Cuda 360/TKO
1990 Ram Van
1998 Neon
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Re: MSD Ignition systems VS Mopar Performance....
[Re: Kern Dog]
#949772
03/13/11 08:12 AM
03/13/11 08:12 AM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041 Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
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Circle Track
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041
Lincoln Nebraska
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I wouldn't think the ECU and dist pickup went out at the same time (what ECU). I'd start by taking off the coil neg pri wire and grounding the coil terminal (not the wire you removed)w a jumper wire w alligator clips on each end repeatedly like Morse Code, tap tap tap w ign key on & see if the coil secondary wire held 1/4" from a ground makes sparks & if so this tells you the coil/ballast & the their supporting wiring in the ign1 (run) circuit are good. Repeat the test as a helper turns the key to start but 1st take off the yellow "ign" wire from the starter relay to disable the starter just to avoid running the batt down and to elim the noise distraction. If it sparks the ign2 (crank) circuit is good. That only leaves the dist and the ECU and their supporting wiring. Seperate the dist 2 wire connector & ohm it (specs in archives) & check the reluctor gap & might pull it & spin it & reportedly (haven't checked one) it will generate 1 volt AC on your VOM if the pickup is good. For the ECU plug in a known good dist from your stash & w key on spin the shaft w your free hand & see if the coil to dist wire (dist end) held again 1/4" from ground kicks out good blue sparks. This tells you ALL is good in the hood ex the dist that's still in the eng. Can hide an ECU (or MSD) under the battery box & it'd be a bit away from the heat but still in the eng compartment. I'd suggest find/isolate the prob then make an informed decision & with your dist already curved I'd want to keep it. I have yet to run MSD stuff but they have a few reported reliability probs (but of course you only hear the bad news) and I like some of their gadget stuff (adj advance is one) & as said the multiple sparks may aid starting & a slight gain elsewhere but imnho you wont get your moneys worth EDIT meant to say starter relay not starter solenoid (for the ign2 crank test)
Last edited by RapidRobert; 03/13/11 01:37 PM.
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: MSD Ignition systems VS Mopar Performance....
[Re: RapidRobert]
#949773
03/13/11 08:18 AM
03/13/11 08:18 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 21,079 Niles , Ohio
therocks
oh wait.but hey.lets see.oh yeah.
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oh wait.but hey.lets see.oh yeah.
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 21,079
Niles , Ohio
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I have the6AL in my 440.My kid has the 6 that has the built in rev limiter.Both are flawless and he picked up at lest 3/10s when he changed from the MP in his 413.Price for dist and box is around 450 to 500.Id buy the 6 with the built in rev limiter if I had to buy another new box.Mine is 12 years old.Dist is super easy to set up also.Rocky
Chrysler Firepower
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Re: MSD Ignition systems VS Mopar Performance....
[Re: Kern Dog]
#949776
03/13/11 01:24 PM
03/13/11 01:24 PM
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,555 Rittman Ohio
fourgearsavoy
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,555
Rittman Ohio
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I have the new Firecore distributor and an MSD 6AL with a Blaster SS coil sending the spark through Firecore 50 wires and couldn't be happier This is hands down the BEST ignition system I have ever used Gus
64 Plymouth Savoy 493 Indy EZ's by Nick at Compu-Flow 5-Speed Richmond faceplate Liberty box Dana 60
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Re: MSD Ignition systems VS Mopar Performance....
[Re: fourgearsavoy]
#949779
03/13/11 01:56 PM
03/13/11 01:56 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041 Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
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Circle Track
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041
Lincoln Nebraska
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Thanks Gus & now that you mention 6al a buddy has one laying around & wants a hundred for it so I might try it. Never paid attention to the Firecore wire hype in the beginning but they have gotten continual high praise (on here) for years now from many members so there's gotta b something to em. I'd always thought a solid core wire w name brand insulation would b as good (& simple) as it can get but maybe not & maybe more to it than that
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: MSD Ignition systems VS Mopar Performance....
[Re: Kern Dog]
#949783
03/13/11 02:37 PM
03/13/11 02:37 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 27,347 Today? Who Knows?
1_WILD_RT
Management Trainee
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Management Trainee
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 27,347
Today? Who Knows?
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In response to the earlier post about the MSD probably makes more torque down low but I've seen no evidence to back it up... Back in the early 80's I had buddy with a T/A that was kinda doggy down low, you had to slip the clutch quite a bit leaving a stop... I put my MSD on his car just to show him what effect it would have, I ran a 440-6 at the time & I felt the multi spark really made a huge difference with cleaning up the multi carb issues, practically any mixture would fire & burn completely... Anyway I added my MSD & we found you could literally dump the clutch at idle & the car would chug a couple times then drive away... It wouldn't die, the increase in bottom end torque was incredible... BTW That MSD it still on that T/A & it still works fine..
"The Armies of our ancestors were lucky, in that they were not trailed by a second army of pencil pushers."
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Re: MSD Ignition systems VS Mopar Performance....
[Re: RapidRobert]
#949784
03/13/11 02:43 PM
03/13/11 02:43 PM
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 4,154 bethlehem pa
mikemee1331
master
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master
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 4,154
bethlehem pa
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Quote:
Thanks Gus & now that you mention 6al a buddy has one laying around & wants a hundred for it so I might try it. Never paid attention to the Firecore wire hype in the beginning but they have gotten continual high praise (on here) for years now from many members so there's gotta b something to em. I'd always thought a solid core wire w name brand insulation would b as good (& simple) as it can get but maybe not & maybe more to it than that
if you do try the MSD, don't use the solid cores. you won't be able to time it.
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Re: MSD Ignition systems VS Mopar Performance....
[Re: Evil Monkey]
#949787
03/13/11 08:38 PM
03/13/11 08:38 PM
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 18,493 Granite Bay CA
Kern Dog
OP
Striving for excellence
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OP
Striving for excellence
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 18,493
Granite Bay CA
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Quote:
Summit has the MSD 6AL for $205, and then you would need to buy one of their RPM chip kits to set the rev limiter for another $28. I went with the Crane box because they have a dial adjuster for the rev limiter so you don't need to change chips if you want to adjust the rev limit. It's also digital, rather than the analog MSD 6AL box. Summit sells the Crane Hi-6 for $250.
So I gather that both of these systems require or allow the use of the stock distributor? I dont mind buying a new distributor. I'm not against spending a few bucks if I need to. I love this car and I really want to drive it more. Reliablity problems are making the car less enjoyable.
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