Re: Shock Tech
[Re: Monte_Smith]
#932048
02/23/11 12:03 AM
02/23/11 12:03 AM
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 43 IN
EricatAFCO
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Quote:
I have seen Eric mention it a couple times here, but I don't think emphatically enough...........guys the front of the car, HAS TO WORK, before you can do anything with the rear. The front shocks and suspension, are likely just as important, maybe more so, than the rear. I see guys all the time with nice shocks on the rear and junk 3-ways on the front. When the car still won't work, they surmise the good shocks were a waste of money. Got to make the front work.
And while we are talking about front shocks, let me just say that every car out there, does NOT need 7" of travel and loosey goosey shocks in the front. In these days of power, good tires, good tracks and good suspension, a ton of pitch rotation, like was needed in the past, is just not a requirement these days. Most will work with a relatively stiff front setup.
Hey Eric, I know the guys at TRZ had mentioned to you a project I had going on a Holley. Did you ever get a chance to look into that
Thanks
Monte
Monte,
Hit me with the details again on your project. Send it to my email address plz.
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Re: Shock Tech
[Re: joshking440]
#932049
02/23/11 01:02 PM
02/23/11 01:02 PM
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 43 IN
EricatAFCO
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Quote:
Actually gents, I have know Eric and the guys at Afco for some time now.
Eric is a good guy and has helped me in every way he can. He is also going to be re-valving my shocks for me to help slow down the violent seperation that is happening in the car.
Once Eric gets his feet wet here, and everyone gets to know him and his product, Im sure we will see more "blue" shocks at the track....
Im actually suprised wild bill doesnt have a set already, just based on the fact that they are blue!
Hey Josh, can you re-post the link of your car slapping the wheelie bars? It's the same one you sent to me previously I believe.
This video shows the wheelie bars pounding the track as the car launches. This example is another good place to spend a few minutes... As the wheelie bars hit, they relieve load from the tire contact patch. If too much load is taken away, tire slip or flat out spin can occur. This is a good example of a need for stiffer shocks to properly control the rear housing..If you see this happening to your car, chances are that traction is getting compromised..
What do you guys think? How does this apply to what you are doing?
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Re: Shock Tech
[Re: EricatAFCO]
#932050
02/23/11 01:44 PM
02/23/11 01:44 PM
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 803 Idabel,Oklahoma
Gary Robbins
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 803
Idabel,Oklahoma
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Quote:
Quote:
Actually gents, I have know Eric and the guys at Afco for some time now.
Eric is a good guy and has helped me in every way he can. He is also going to be re-valving my shocks for me to help slow down the violent seperation that is happening in the car.
Once Eric gets his feet wet here, and everyone gets to know him and his product, Im sure we will see more "blue" shocks at the track....
Im actually suprised wild bill doesnt have a set already, just based on the fact that they are blue!
Hey Josh, can you re-post the link of your car slapping the wheelie bars? It's the same one you sent to me previously I believe.
This video shows the wheelie bars pounding the track as the car launches. This example is another good place to spend a few minutes... As the wheelie bars hit, they relieve load from the tire contact patch. If too much load is taken away, tire slip or flat out spin can occur. This is a good example of a need for stiffer shocks to properly control the rear housing..If you see this happening to your car, chances are that traction is getting compromised..
What do you guys think? How does this apply to what you are doing?
What is wheelie bars and why do you need them...1.23 short time best with consistent sub 1.30's with junk single adjustable qa1's on back and double's on front...No bars/28x10.5's/3300#/glide and 3.89 rear gears...And yes that's a real question,why do you need sissy bars and the benifit of them!!!!!!
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Re: Shock Tech
[Re: Gary Robbins]
#932052
02/23/11 04:45 PM
02/23/11 04:45 PM
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 43 IN
EricatAFCO
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Actually gents, I have know Eric and the guys at Afco for some time now.
Eric is a good guy and has helped me in every way he can. He is also going to be re-valving my shocks for me to help slow down the violent seperation that is happening in the car.
Once Eric gets his feet wet here, and everyone gets to know him and his product, Im sure we will see more "blue" shocks at the track....
Im actually suprised wild bill doesnt have a set already, just based on the fact that they are blue!
Hey Josh, can you re-post the link of your car slapping the wheelie bars? It's the same one you sent to me previously I believe.
This video shows the wheelie bars pounding the track as the car launches. This example is another good place to spend a few minutes... As the wheelie bars hit, they relieve load from the tire contact patch. If too much load is taken away, tire slip or flat out spin can occur. This is a good example of a need for stiffer shocks to properly control the rear housing..If you see this happening to your car, chances are that traction is getting compromised..
What do you guys think? How does this apply to what you are doing?
What is wheelie bars and why do you need them...1.23 short time best with consistent sub 1.30's with junk single adjustable qa1's on back and double's on front...No bars/28x10.5's/3300#/glide and 3.89 rear gears...And yes that's a real question,why do you need sissy bars and the benifit of them!!!!!!
Good one Gary! I like all the love I am feeling between you guys on here! LOL.....Seriously, the wheelie/sissy bars do give us a good visual of what is going on with the rear end...If the bars arent' there, we really don't have a frame of reference....So, my question/suggestion is....could your car be experiencing the same conditions? Could there be room for improvement? Back to the test N tune idea. If we don't try something else, we don't know how much better our stuff can be.
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Re: Shock Tech
[Re: joshking440]
#932053
02/23/11 07:16 PM
02/23/11 07:16 PM
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 803 Idabel,Oklahoma
Gary Robbins
super stock
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Posts: 803
Idabel,Oklahoma
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Quote:
Gary, you really know how to hurt a guys feelings....
I truly had the bars on for the first couple outings as I had never driven the car before, and had no idea what it was going to do...but dont worry, I will take them off when im kickin your rear at the moparts race hahahaha.....
Here is the link showing the car slapping the bars, and another view of the car further down track
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=098GfgWmXuk&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GY3zKnAUhqQ
Josh....There's no way i would run a turbo car without bars,seen to many of them do crazy things down track and with your new combo i probaly want be able to hang but i will spray it till i kill it trying...Eric,if my local series allowed bars i would probaly have them on.I don't like to think about how much money i spent on frontends after all the moon shots.No problems now,but it did take lots of testing and shocks did help greatly...I think its great what your doing on the forum with shocks as they are not easily understood,me included and i'm sure i could improve with better shocks and understanding...Gary,oh yea welcome aboard the water is only luke warm here most of the time!!!!!!!!!
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Re: Shock Tech
[Re: Gary Robbins]
#932054
02/23/11 08:11 PM
02/23/11 08:11 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,037 MN
JERICOGTX
I Live Here
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I Live Here
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Posts: 10,037
MN
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Just want to say Thank You to Eric for sending me a catalog. I had signed up for one on Afco's website, but it wasn't sent. No big deal, but Eric took care of it. Going out of your way, even if it's something simple like that, and all the help here on Moparts, I know where my new set of shock for the RoadRunner will come from now. Thanks again Eric. Jeff
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Re: Shock Tech
[Re: DMCMopar]
#932056
02/24/11 11:19 PM
02/24/11 11:19 PM
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 2,864 IN
Irun5snd8th
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Posts: 2,864
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Eric, in my conversations with you; you have given me alot of scenarios where cars were not working and what you guys did to fix them. Perhaps, you can share some of that information? I know a couple of those helped me.
AFCO, Rons Fuel Injection sponsored Dodge Challenger
Mention Street Lethal Motorsports
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Re: Shock Tech
[Re: Irun5snd8th]
#932057
02/25/11 10:59 AM
02/25/11 10:59 AM
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Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 877 ky
68roadrunner
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 877
ky
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eric, i have problem that only a few on this board can relate to.
on my dragster, 4 link rocker arm setup, with the (apparently) first generation afco shocks.
the car worked really good with previous owners setup 565 bbc and glide, mine is a 499 mopar/glide.
the car 60s pretty consistent, but the 60-330 #s change. when the track is hot and slick it actually runs quicker. i jetted the carb up and rulled out fuel. lowered top bar in the front with no change.
ideas on shock adjustments here, or replacement of shock is possible.
my ideas for this spring, move battery out of nose, to put more weight on rear tires, raise launch chip from 4600, add more rear gear from 4.10 to 4.29 to hit tire harder.
any ideas appreciated.
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Re: Shock Tech
[Re: 68roadrunner]
#932058
02/25/11 12:17 PM
02/25/11 12:17 PM
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 2,864 IN
Irun5snd8th
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Quote:
eric, i have problem that only a few on this board can relate to.
on my dragster, 4 link rocker arm setup, with the (apparently) first generation afco shocks.
the car worked really good with previous owners setup 565 bbc and glide, mine is a 499 mopar/glide.
the car 60s pretty consistent, but the 60-330 #s change. when the track is hot and slick it actually runs quicker. i jetted the carb up and rulled out fuel. lowered top bar in the front with no change.
ideas on shock adjustments here, or replacement of shock is possible.
my ideas for this spring, move battery out of nose, to put more weight on rear tires, raise launch chip from 4600, add more rear gear from 4.10 to 4.29 to hit tire harder.
any ideas appreciated.
It almost sounds to me like the converter is too tight. Follow me here. If the tires are slipping out in the middle and the car picks up; it sounds like the converter is too tight for the setup. Basically the engine is getting into the rpm range that it likes when the tires are slippinng out there.
AFCO, Rons Fuel Injection sponsored Dodge Challenger
Mention Street Lethal Motorsports
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Re: Shock Tech
[Re: Irun5snd8th]
#932059
02/25/11 12:37 PM
02/25/11 12:37 PM
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Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 877 ky
68roadrunner
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 877
ky
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Quote:
Quote:
eric, i have problem that only a few on this board can relate to.
on my dragster, 4 link rocker arm setup, with the (apparently) first generation afco shocks.
the car worked really good with previous owners setup 565 bbc and glide, mine is a 499 mopar/glide.
the car 60s pretty consistent, but the 60-330 #s change. when the track is hot and slick it actually runs quicker. i jetted the carb up and rulled out fuel. lowered top bar in the front with no change.
ideas on shock adjustments here, or replacement of shock is possible.
my ideas for this spring, move battery out of nose, to put more weight on rear tires, raise launch chip from 4600, add more rear gear from 4.10 to 4.29 to hit tire harder.
any ideas appreciated.
It almost sounds to me like the converter is too tight. Follow me here. If the tires are slipping out in the middle and the car picks up; it sounds like the converter is too tight for the setup. Basically the engine is getting into the rpm range that it likes when the tires are slippinng out there.
thanks eric, i agree, just wanted any opinions that a simple adjustment might help.
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Re: Shock Tech
[Re: Irun5snd8th]
#932060
02/25/11 01:48 PM
02/25/11 01:48 PM
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 2,360 Mobile Alabama
SB412DUSTER
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 2,360
Mobile Alabama
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Quote:
Quote:
eric, i have problem that only a few on this board can relate to.
on my dragster, 4 link rocker arm setup, with the (apparently) first generation afco shocks.
the car worked really good with previous owners setup 565 bbc and glide, mine is a 499 mopar/glide.
the car 60s pretty consistent, but the 60-330 #s change. when the track is hot and slick it actually runs quicker. i jetted the carb up and rulled out fuel. lowered top bar in the front with no change.
ideas on shock adjustments here, or replacement of shock is possible.
my ideas for this spring, move battery out of nose, to put more weight on rear tires, raise launch chip from 4600, add more rear gear from 4.10 to 4.29 to hit tire harder.
any ideas appreciated.
It almost sounds to me like the converter is too tight. Follow me here. If the tires are slipping out in the middle and the car picks up; it sounds like the converter is too tight for the setup. Basically the engine is getting into the rpm range that it likes when the tires are slippinng out there.
Thats the samething I have seen
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Re: Shock Tech
[Re: 68roadrunner]
#932061
02/25/11 05:20 PM
02/25/11 05:20 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 4,330 Lynchburg, VA
Leon441
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 4,330
Lynchburg, VA
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Quote:
eric, i have problem that only a few on this board can relate to.
on my dragster, 4 link rocker arm setup, with the (apparently) first generation afco shocks.
the car worked really good with previous owners setup 565 bbc and glide, mine is a 499 mopar/glide.
the car 60s pretty consistent, but the 60-330 #s change. when the track is hot and slick it actually runs quicker. i jetted the carb up and rulled out fuel. lowered top bar in the front with no change.
ideas on shock adjustments here, or replacement of shock is possible.
my ideas for this spring, move battery out of nose, to put more weight on rear tires, raise launch chip from 4600, add more rear gear from 4.10 to 4.29 to hit tire harder.
any ideas appreciated.
I don't know that I would move the battery. Seems to me it would make the problem worse. If I understand correctly a slick track is a fast track for you. So adding bite with weight or by lowering the top four link bar is going to make the car hook harder and lower the wheel speed. I have some of the same issues but my 60 ft is affected. I run faster with less bite. I tried several converters ranging 1,500 in stall speed. Big stall would get the RPM up but would suffer 60 ft and MPH and stabilize the 60-330 increment. I want to try a tighter converter in my application and take bite out. I think you may have a decent converter just need to get rid of some bite as long as you don't loose 60ft. Just me thinking out loud.
leon
Career best 8.02 @ 169 at 3050# and 10" tires small block power.
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Re: Shock Tech
[Re: Leon441]
#932062
02/25/11 06:46 PM
02/25/11 06:46 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Quote:
Quote:
eric, i have problem that only a few on this board can relate to.
on my dragster, 4 link rocker arm setup, with the (apparently) first generation afco shocks.
the car worked really good with previous owners setup 565 bbc and glide, mine is a 499 mopar/glide.
the car 60s pretty consistent, but the 60-330 #s change. when the track is hot and slick it actually runs quicker. i jetted the carb up and rulled out fuel. lowered top bar in the front with no change.
ideas on shock adjustments here, or replacement of shock is possible.
my ideas for this spring, move battery out of nose, to put more weight on rear tires, raise launch chip from 4600, add more rear gear from 4.10 to 4.29 to hit tire harder.
any ideas appreciated.
I don't know that I would move the battery. Seems to me it would make the problem worse. If I understand correctly a slick track is a fast track for you. So adding bite with weight or by lowering the top four link bar is going to make the car hook harder and lower the wheel speed. I have some of the same issues but my 60 ft is affected. I run faster with less bite. I tried several converters ranging 1,500 in stall speed. Big stall would get the RPM up but would suffer 60 ft and MPH and stabilize the 60-330 increment. I want to try a tighter converter in my application and take bite out. I think you may have a decent converter just need to get rid of some bite as long as you don't loose 60ft. Just me thinking out loud.
leon
I would think he would need to lower the IC but still maintain about the same IC length... with the lower IC it hits the tire less BUT holds the hit longer so I would have to ask what is the IC length and height now... with lowering the top bar all you did was shorten the IC length which does lift more weight from farther back
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Re: Shock Tech
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#932063
02/25/11 07:05 PM
02/25/11 07:05 PM
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Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 877 ky
68roadrunner
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 877
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I would think he would need to lower the IC but still maintain about the same IC length... with the lower IC it hits the tire less BUT holds the hit longer so I would have to ask what is the IC length and height now... with lowering the top bar all you did was shorten the IC length which does lift more weight from farther back
mr p cant remember exactly and cant get to my book right now. it is at 3-4" off the ground and maybe 40-50" out, with bar one hole higher it was -1to-2" at around 80" i think. the change made no difference
thanks for the help guys
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Re: Shock Tech
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#932065
02/25/11 07:20 PM
02/25/11 07:20 PM
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Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 877 ky
68roadrunner
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 877
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Quote:
mr p cant remember exactly and cant get to my book right now. it is at 3-4" off the ground and maybe 40-50" out, with bar one hole higher it was -1to-2" at around 80" i think. the change made no difference
thanks for the help guys
Can you get a point thats about the same IC length but lower... you showed lower but that was 30" longer
i am sure i can, will have to try it when i get it out, i do see what you and everyone here is saying. actually to much bit for the setup. if you tighten the extension on the shock would that help, or make unmanagable?
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Re: Shock Tech
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#932067
02/25/11 07:45 PM
02/25/11 07:45 PM
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Did you guys over there at AFCO ever get those reducer bushings for your front double adjustable shocks. The lower bolt holes are too large for stock front ends on these mopars.You needed to get reducers to put in the lower hole to make the stock bolt work with your shocks. I'm in the market for another set of double adjustables
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