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Re: 3rd gen HEMI swap for drag racing...tricks for power.
[Re: MattW]
#921829
02/26/11 10:15 PM
02/26/11 10:15 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 9,225
Charleston
sixpackgut
Drag Week Mod Champion
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Drag Week Mod Champion
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 9,225
Charleston
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Matt, someone just posted on the LX forums that the first digit is the year so i guess your right. and if your right then i cant believe that so many people couldnt answer that.
the same part number on the heads really threw me for a loop
Gen 3 power 6.22@110, 9.85@135
Follow @g3hemiswap on instagram
performance only racing, CRT, ultimate converter, superior design concepts, ThumperCarbs
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Re: 3rd gen HEMI swap for drag racing...tricks for power.
[Re: nhramark]
#921832
02/28/11 04:23 PM
02/28/11 04:23 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 3,251
Between a rock & a hard place
cudadoug
master
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master
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 3,251
Between a rock & a hard place
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Quote:
Quote:
also whats the motor mount situation.?
cheapst
Can't help with the motor mount, but we do make a nice motorplate. This one has the optional alternator kit on it.
VERRRRY interesting. What application is the water pump, or are they made for a G3 Hemi now??
Can you do a plate with the alt mount kit on the passenger side??
Thanks
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Re: 3rd gen HEMI swap for drag racing...tricks for power.
[Re: sixpackgut]
#921834
02/28/11 10:16 PM
02/28/11 10:16 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 344
Burlington, Ontario Canada
Dave_S
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 344
Burlington, Ontario Canada
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All the new Hemis oil the lifters from the push rod/ rocker shafts. Its backwards to what we are used to. This was done to accommodate the MDS system. Quoted from the FSM:
Engine oil stored in the oil pan (5) is drawn in and discharged by a gear rotor type oil pump (2, 3). The oil pump is directly coupled to the crankshaft (1). Oil pressure is regulated by a relief valve (4). The oil is fed through an oil filter and to the crankshaft journals from the oil gallery (8) in the cylinder block. This gallery also feeds oil under pressure to the cylinder heads. Oil flows through each cylinder heads oil passage to the rocker shafts (10, 16). Oil then feeds the camshaft journals (12), rocker arms, and hydraulic lash adjusters.
OIL FLOWS TO ONLY ONE PEDESTAL ON EACH HEAD - SECOND FROM REAR ON RIGHT HEAD - SECOND FROM FRONT ON LEFT HEAD
Dave Stillie
'73 Swinger
5.7 Hemi, 88mm turbo, powerglide, cal-tracs & 8 3/4
Mega-Squirt EFI
[email]8.93@149
[/email]
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Re: 3rd gen HEMI swap for drag racing...tricks for power.
[Re: Dave_S]
#921835
02/28/11 10:39 PM
02/28/11 10:39 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 9,225
Charleston
sixpackgut
Drag Week Mod Champion
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Drag Week Mod Champion
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 9,225
Charleston
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Quote:
All the new Hemis oil the lifters from the push rod/ rocker shafts. Its backwards to what we are used to. This was done to accommodate the MDS system. Quoted from the FSM:
Engine oil stored in the oil pan (5) is drawn in and discharged by a gear rotor type oil pump (2, 3). The oil pump is directly coupled to the crankshaft (1). Oil pressure is regulated by a relief valve (4). The oil is fed through an oil filter and to the crankshaft journals from the oil gallery (8) in the cylinder block. This gallery also feeds oil under pressure to the cylinder heads. Oil flows through each cylinder heads oil passage to the rocker shafts (10, 16). Oil then feeds the camshaft journals (12), rocker arms, and hydraulic lash adjusters.
OIL FLOWS TO ONLY ONE PEDESTAL ON EACH HEAD - SECOND FROM REAR ON RIGHT HEAD - SECOND FROM FRONT ON LEFT HEAD
far out 
Gen 3 power 6.22@110, 9.85@135
Follow @g3hemiswap on instagram
performance only racing, CRT, ultimate converter, superior design concepts, ThumperCarbs
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Re: 3rd gen HEMI swap for drag racing...tricks for power.
[Re: STEFF]
#921837
03/27/11 12:18 AM
03/27/11 12:18 AM
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 72
San Angelo, Texas
Cevidicus
member
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member
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 72
San Angelo, Texas
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Iv'e had an '09 5.7 Hemi Eagle for over a year now. I have called around, researched, discussed, daydreamed till my head was ready to explode. Stu and the boy's at Inertia Motorsports have been quite helpfull.
Basically, you have 4 options if you have an '09+ 5.7 and want to run it in a classic body.
1. FACTORY EFI/IGNITION:(has been done in Jeeps by BG) Use a 2009+ 5.7 Challenger 6-speed pcm, intake, throttle body, injectors, electronic throttle pedal, HotWire harness,(+ anything I left out) and a custom tune on the pcm. Including the tune this is right around $3,000 and will make use of the VCT function. If you have MDS, you will have to replace the MDS lifers and yokes. Which requires removing the heads so new head gaskets and head bolts would be a good idea, but may not be needed.
2.CARB THE '09: Weld cam phaser to cam gear. Some trial and error with the degree wheel needed to get the cam positioned right. Might as well get a reground cam while you're at it. Camselection is quite limited. One could also get a custom ground billet cam if $800 is not an issue. So, weld phaser & degree cam, reground cam, push rods, non-mds lifters/yokes, head gaskets, and labor is about $900. Plus you will have to run the FAST XMI ignition ($700-775 with harness) because the MSD will not work with the '09's tone wheel. Also add carb compatable 6.1 style intake manifold.
3. AFTERMARKET EFI WITH VCT FUNCTION: Electromotive XDI Nobody has done it and it is like 4500 just for the electronics and the plugs/wiring which you have to adapt to your application. Plus dyno tuning time, intake, throttlebody, injectors and so on.
4. BLOCK SWAP: Swap the internals from the '09+ into an '08 down block. Factory 08 down efi may not work due to the 52 tooth tone wheel on the 09 crank. 08 down uses a 32 tooth wheel, I believe.
There are pro's and con's to each approach. None really qualify as cheap. All require a well thought out plan.
If one wants a more agressive/radical engine in the stock displacement, a block swap makes the most sense. This is due to the availability of cams for the 08 down blocks.
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Re: 3rd gen HEMI swap for drag racing...tricks for power.
[Re: sixpackgut]
#921838
03/27/11 12:48 AM
03/27/11 12:48 AM
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,830
houston texas
gremlinsteve
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,830
houston texas
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heads are also oiled via the rocker "towers". they get preassure via a passage in the block. steve Quote:
a couple things
1st, i was looking at the flexplate conversion on mancinis website and it appears to me that it will only accept a larger style converter with the small 5/16ths converter bolts. does someone else make a flex plate for smaller vert with the larger 7/16ths bolt holes
the next thing is, i was trying to study the rocker gear oiling system today. to me it looks like oil thru the pushrod and that oil then fills the rocker shaft to push oil out the other side of the rocker to oil the springs which then got me thinking about how will the harland sharpe rockers work with needle bearings and even more so with an adjustable rocker arm. i would want to look at the rockers and how their designed before i bought them. unless of course you were to run oil lines to the shafts
if You Like Gremlinsteve. Gremlinsteve Likes You.
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Re: 3rd gen HEMI swap for drag racing...tricks for power.
[Re: gremlinsteve]
#921839
03/27/11 12:56 AM
03/27/11 12:56 AM
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,830
houston texas
gremlinsteve
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,830
houston texas
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09 motors have no cam cores available from the core companies that i know of. most if not all cams i know of the the vvt motor is reground stock cores.
the 09 motor uses a differant timing cover from the older design also.
the intake is differant also. as are the heads.
i like the idea of losing that cam phazer, but cam choice is not there yet. its almost worth selling that 09 short block and picking up a decent 08 and older one. heck, i have several im fixing to toss because there in my way...lol
there are aftermarket crank kits available for the vvt 5.7 cars/motors making them 390-396 inchers...but limited cam choices for that route also..
steve
if You Like Gremlinsteve. Gremlinsteve Likes You.
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Re: 3rd gen HEMI swap for drag racing...tricks for power.
[Re: cheapstreetdustr]
#921842
03/28/11 09:17 AM
03/28/11 09:17 AM
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,830
houston texas
gremlinsteve
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,830
houston texas
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ill check my i as of last week was still not able to get cores for them vvt motors. i might try crower for a blank.
the 5.7 eagle piston is differant also. since the eagle head has only got about a 66cc head chamber. the old 5.7 came in about 87
steve
if You Like Gremlinsteve. Gremlinsteve Likes You.
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Re: 3rd gen HEMI swap for drag racing...tricks for power.
[Re: STEFF]
#921843
03/28/11 09:19 AM
03/28/11 09:19 AM
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,830
houston texas
gremlinsteve
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,830
houston texas
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i have a clut away of a 09 head if you wanna see what they look like cut in half. i think the file is too big to post here so ill have to email it to some one.
steve
if You Like Gremlinsteve. Gremlinsteve Likes You.
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Re: 3rd gen HEMI swap for drag racing...tricks for power.
[Re: Cevidicus]
#921844
03/28/11 01:38 PM
03/28/11 01:38 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 18,066
S.E. Michigan
ZIPPY
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 18,066
S.E. Michigan
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That's a nice summary sweeth2o, well written.
For now, VVT/VCT is a pain to modify and really not very user friendly.
Rich H.
Esse Quam Videri
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Re: 3rd gen HEMI swap for drag racing...tricks for power.
[Re: sam64]
#921845
03/28/11 04:07 PM
03/28/11 04:07 PM
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,830
houston texas
gremlinsteve
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,830
houston texas
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who can i send these pics to so yall can post em. there too big for the sight.
steve
if You Like Gremlinsteve. Gremlinsteve Likes You.
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Re: 3rd gen HEMI swap for drag racing...tricks for power.
[Re: ZIPPY]
#921846
04/09/11 02:37 AM
04/09/11 02:37 AM
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 72
San Angelo, Texas
Cevidicus
member
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member
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 72
San Angelo, Texas
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Quote:
That's a nice summary sweeth2o, well written.
For now, VVT/VCT is a pain to modify and really not very user friendly.
Thanks!
Im hoping that since the new SRT 392's have vct that something may come up. Surely Mopar will put out a crate engine based on the new VCT engines at some point sooner or later.
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Re: 3rd gen HEMI swap for drag racing...tricks for power.
[Re: gremlinsteve]
#921847
04/09/11 10:40 AM
04/09/11 10:40 AM
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,489
Pacifica, CA
Devilbrad
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,489
Pacifica, CA
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Quote:
who can i send these pics to so yall can post em. there too big for the sight.
steve
Send it to me, I can resize and post it. n2mopars@gmail.com
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