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Oil Consumption Culprit Found!!! #877720 12/11/10 08:56 PM 12/11/10 08:56 PM
Joined: Mar 2010 Posts: 1,880 Out in Left Field, NY B bobs66440 OP top fuel
bobs66440 OP top fuel B Joined: Mar 2010 Posts: 1,880 Out in Left Field, NY	Well, as some of you know I've been chasing a 1qt. per 200 mile oil consumption issue and this is what I found when I pulled the intake (at the advice of some of you here). Oil everywhere...on both sides of the pan, a lot inside the intake runners and also the intake ports. Unfortunately much buildup on the intake valves too. There was only the valley pan with no gaskets used except silicone at the front and rear rails and looks like some crusty sealer on there. This is a sample of what's in the intake ports... Do you guys think that this could be responsible for that much oil usage? This is the last thing to try before going the rebuild route, which I hate to do because it runs so good...I don't want to open a can of worms (and my wallet).

Re: Oil Consumption Culprit Found? [Re: bobs66440] #877721 12/11/10 08:59 PM 12/11/10 08:59 PM
Joined: Oct 2010 Posts: 606 Montana Y Yancy Derringer mopar
Yancy Derringer mopar Y Joined: Oct 2010 Posts: 606 Montana	The oil buildup around the intakes is a BIG clue. It's either coming from the valley leak valve guides or pcv There's no other way to get oil into that part of the engine

Re: Oil Consumption Culprit Found? [Re: bobs66440] #877722 12/11/10 09:02 PM 12/11/10 09:02 PM
Joined: Jan 2008 Posts: 3,886 Lost and Spaced B bboogieart master
bboogieart master B Joined: Jan 2008 Posts: 3,886 Lost and Spaced	Looks like. If the intake gasket is leaking it can in deed suck up a lot of oil, but a leak like that will usually cause the motor to run very poorly. Pic number three looks really bad. Leaking at the top of the intake runner. Is that orange on the intake paint from another engine? Sealer?

Re: Oil Consumption Culprit Found? [Re: Yancy Derringer] #877723 12/11/10 09:03 PM 12/11/10 09:03 PM
Joined: Mar 2010 Posts: 1,880 Out in Left Field, NY B bobs66440 OP top fuel
bobs66440 OP top fuel B Joined: Mar 2010 Posts: 1,880 Out in Left Field, NY	I'm pretty sure it's not from the guides or seals because the guides seem tight and I put new seals in with no improvement at all despite the old ones being in real bad shape.

Re: Oil Consumption Culprit Found? [Re: bobs66440] #877724 12/11/10 09:06 PM 12/11/10 09:06 PM
Joined: Nov 2007 Posts: 21,813 Kirkland, Washington Pacnorthcuda Too Many Posts
Pacnorthcuda Too Many Posts Joined: Nov 2007 Posts: 21,813 Kirkland, Washington	1qt/200 miles is a Lot of oil to suck buy the pan but I suppose its possible. Others disagree but I prefer to use the composition gaskets on both sides of the valley pan. I even superglue them to the pan the day before install--very anal about it, I create wood plates to clamp both sides. What ever you do dont use RTV around the intake runners--RTV is not gasoline resistant. You may have more than one source of oil loss.

Re: Oil Consumption Culprit Found? [Re: bboogieart] #877725 12/11/10 09:06 PM 12/11/10 09:06 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,476 G gtx69 super gas
gtx69 super gas G Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,476	Orange looks like sealer.

Re: Oil Consumption Culprit Found? [Re: bboogieart] #877726 12/11/10 09:06 PM 12/11/10 09:06 PM
Joined: Mar 2010 Posts: 1,880 Out in Left Field, NY B bobs66440 OP top fuel
bobs66440 OP top fuel B Joined: Mar 2010 Posts: 1,880 Out in Left Field, NY	Quote: Looks like. If the intake gasket is leaking it can in deed suck up a lot of oil, but a leak like that will usually cause the motor to run very poorly. Pic number three looks really bad. Leaking at the top of the intake runner. Is that orange on the intake paint from another engine? Sealer? It looks like orange paint, presumably from another engine because this one isn't orange. Though I suppose it could be sealer...

Re: Oil Consumption Culprit Found? [Re: bobs66440] #877727 12/11/10 09:07 PM 12/11/10 09:07 PM
Joined: Jan 2008 Posts: 3,886 Lost and Spaced B bboogieart master
bboogieart master B Joined: Jan 2008 Posts: 3,886 Lost and Spaced	I was looking at intake gasket seal not valve guides.

Re: Oil Consumption Culprit Found? [Re: bboogieart] #877728 12/11/10 09:13 PM 12/11/10 09:13 PM
Joined: Mar 2010 Posts: 1,880 Out in Left Field, NY B bobs66440 OP top fuel
bobs66440 OP top fuel B Joined: Mar 2010 Posts: 1,880 Out in Left Field, NY	Quote: I was looking at intake gasket seal not valve guides. Yeah sorry, I was responding to Yancy Derringer's post.

Re: Oil Consumption Culprit Found? [Re: Pacnorthcuda] #877729 12/11/10 09:16 PM 12/11/10 09:16 PM
Joined: Mar 2010 Posts: 1,880 Out in Left Field, NY B bobs66440 OP top fuel
bobs66440 OP top fuel B Joined: Mar 2010 Posts: 1,880 Out in Left Field, NY	Quote: Others disagree but I prefer to use the composition gaskets on both sides of the valley pan. I even superglue them to the pan the day before install--very anal about it, I create wood plates to clamp both sides. Do you mean these? I was thinking of using these but heard that they raise the intake up too high to get the bolts started...though I haven't tried it yet.

Re: Oil Consumption Culprit Found? [Re: bobs66440] #877730 12/11/10 09:26 PM 12/11/10 09:26 PM
Joined: Nov 2007 Posts: 21,813 Kirkland, Washington Pacnorthcuda Too Many Posts
Pacnorthcuda Too Many Posts Joined: Nov 2007 Posts: 21,813 Kirkland, Washington	Quote: Quote: Others disagree but I prefer to use the composition gaskets on both sides of the valley pan. I even superglue them to the pan the day before install--very anal about it, I create wood plates to clamp both sides. Do you mean these? I was thinking of using these but heard that they raise the intake up too high to get the bolts started...though I haven't tried it yet. Yep ! Absolutely. Mock it up first to see if fitment is an issue, I've had good luck with 4 different intakes on 2 different 440's, One with milled heads too.

Re: Oil Consumption Culprit Found? [Re: Pacnorthcuda] #877731 12/11/10 09:35 PM 12/11/10 09:35 PM
Joined: Mar 2010 Posts: 1,880 Out in Left Field, NY B bobs66440 OP top fuel
bobs66440 OP top fuel B Joined: Mar 2010 Posts: 1,880 Out in Left Field, NY	Quote: Quote: Quote: Others disagree but I prefer to use the composition gaskets on both sides of the valley pan. I even superglue them to the pan the day before install--very anal about it, I create wood plates to clamp both sides. Do you mean these? I was thinking of using these but heard that they raise the intake up too high to get the bolts started...though I haven't tried it yet. Yep ! Absolutely. Mock it up first to see if fitment is an issue, I've had good luck with 4 different intakes on 2 different 440's, One with milled heads too. Would you use any sealer with the gaskets?

Re: Oil Consumption Culprit Found? [Re: bobs66440] #877732 12/11/10 09:40 PM 12/11/10 09:40 PM
Joined: Nov 2007 Posts: 21,813 Kirkland, Washington Pacnorthcuda Too Many Posts
Pacnorthcuda Too Many Posts Joined: Nov 2007 Posts: 21,813 Kirkland, Washington	I use superglue to the pan so there is no chance of them "walking". I don't use anything against the intake or heads. You could use something else to secure them to the pan, but make sure is gasoline resistant. After I glue them I then trim any excess material that protrudes beyond the intake divider.

Re: Oil Consumption Culprit Found? [Re: Pacnorthcuda] #877733 12/11/10 09:44 PM 12/11/10 09:44 PM
Joined: Mar 2010 Posts: 1,880 Out in Left Field, NY B bobs66440 OP top fuel
bobs66440 OP top fuel B Joined: Mar 2010 Posts: 1,880 Out in Left Field, NY	Quote: I use superglue to the pan so there is no chance of them "walking". I don't use anything against the intake or heads. You could use something else to secure them to the pan, but make sure is gasoline resistant. After I glue them I then trim any excess material that protrudes beyond the intake divider. Ok, thanks!

Re: Oil Consumption Culprit Found? [Re: Pacnorthcuda] #877734 12/11/10 09:45 PM 12/11/10 09:45 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 20,723 A collage of whims topside Too Many Posts
topside Too Many Posts Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 20,723 A collage of whims	We sell paper gaskets for the pan, only .015 thick so they don't jack up the intake. Glue them to the pan and no air/oil leaks. Thinnest ones on the market, had them made to avoid the jack-up problem with everyone else's gaskets.

Re: Oil Consumption Culprit Found? [Re: topside] #877735 12/11/10 10:04 PM 12/11/10 10:04 PM
Joined: Jan 2008 Posts: 3,886 Lost and Spaced B bboogieart master
bboogieart master B Joined: Jan 2008 Posts: 3,886 Lost and Spaced	It looks like orange paint, presumably from another engine because this one isn't orange.The blue motor is why I asked, I was thinking if the old paint was still on there it needs to be cleaned better and checked for flatness. Can paint be a problem? I think so. Sealer is no match for a good clean flat mating surface. Hope it is an easy fix.

Re: Oil Consumption Culprit Found? [Re: bboogieart] #877736 12/11/10 10:20 PM 12/11/10 10:20 PM
Joined: Feb 2003 Posts: 10,198 Someplace you aren't S SomeCarGuy I Live Here
SomeCarGuy I Live Here S Joined: Feb 2003 Posts: 10,198 Someplace you aren't	Check intake for straightness. W/o the heat riser blocked, it sends a ton of heat to it.

Re: Oil Consumption Culprit Found? [Re: SomeCarGuy] #877737 12/11/10 11:49 PM 12/11/10 11:49 PM
Joined: Mar 2010 Posts: 1,880 Out in Left Field, NY B bobs66440 OP top fuel
bobs66440 OP top fuel B Joined: Mar 2010 Posts: 1,880 Out in Left Field, NY	Quote: Check intake for straightness. W/o the heat riser blocked, it sends a ton of heat to it. I will definitely do that. And I'm going to block the crossover too.

Re: Oil Consumption Culprit Found? [Re: bobs66440] #877738 12/12/10 04:13 AM 12/12/10 04:13 AM
Joined: Feb 2003 Posts: 21,318 Manitoba, Canada DaytonaTurbo Too Many Posts
DaytonaTurbo Too Many Posts Joined: Feb 2003 Posts: 21,318 Manitoba, Canada	I had good luck with using no extra gaskets or sealer on the valley pan. I just shot both sides with several good coats of the permatex copper spray, did the rtv on the pan rails. Also had to use permatex thread sealer on the intake manifold bolts because a lot of oil was getting sucked up the threads.

Re: Oil Consumption Culprit Found? [Re: DaytonaTurbo] #877739 12/12/10 09:46 AM 12/12/10 09:46 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 4,978 VA DAMOPARS master
DAMOPARS master Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 4,978 VA	Quote: I had good luck with using no extra gaskets or sealer on the valley pan. I just shot both sides with several good coats of the permatex copper spray, did the rtv on the pan rails. Also had to use permatex thread sealer on the intake manifold bolts because a lot of oil was getting sucked up the threads. Looks like oil around the bolt holes.

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