Re: Scat pak decal on quarter window?
[Re: HPMike]
#869564
12/07/10 12:13 PM
12/07/10 12:13 PM
|
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,550 Sacramento CA
Morty426
master
|
master
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,550
Sacramento CA
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
My 1971 Challenger R/T does not have the Side window Scat Bees . Like another poster stated in an earlies post Stripe delete cars do not get the stickers. I do not know if this is true or not about Stripe delete 1971 Challenger R/Ts. I parted out an R/T Challenger and still have the side windows with its sticker on it.
My 71 stripe delete Challenger R/T does not have them either - but I think that is a coincidence...
Mine neither....and mine is a stripe delete. And I am 100% certain they werent't on there when the car was delivered to the original owner.
Do we have a pattern here??
Jim, what are the details on your'71. Is it a 6 pack with a hole in the roof??
MB
My 71 sixpack is stripe delete and it doesn't have bees.
The pattern continues.
|
|
|
Re: Scat pak decal on quarter window?
[Re: 70gtx440dana]
#869566
12/07/10 12:35 PM
12/07/10 12:35 PM
|
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,711 USA
ECS
David Walden
|
David Walden
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,711
USA
|
Quote:
Is the engineering drawing helpful?
That is exactly what was needed to help eliminate some of the guess work. Your drawing substantiates and proves what Dan conveyed in an earlier post. The "100-1" decal was most likely the correct decal for the B Body but also sufficient to use for the other vehicles as a service replacement. If anyone has an A Body engineering drawing it would complete the scenario. Thanks for posting that illustration!
|
|
|
Re: Scat pak decal on quarter window?
[Re: 6bblgt]
#869567
12/07/10 12:46 PM
12/07/10 12:46 PM
|
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,711 USA
ECS
David Walden
|
David Walden
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,711
USA
|
Quote:
Dave, What was "wrong" with your reproductions? How did they differ from factory applied?
Hi Dan! The posting of the B Body drawing might have opened a completely new can of worms. I don't think that my reproductions were necessarily incorrect! They may have been wrong for A and E Body vehicles. Dave Stuart and I both have the original Bees on our Challenger quarters and they look slightly different than the 3505100-1 (or B Body) part numbers. Could this mean that there were actually 3 variations as they pertained to the specific vehicles?
|
|
|
Re: Scat pak decal on quarter window?
[Re: ECS]
#869569
12/07/10 02:25 PM
12/07/10 02:25 PM
|
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,711 USA
ECS
David Walden
|
David Walden
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,711
USA
|
Quote:
There are NOT separate decals and/or part numbers that differentiate A, B or E body vehicles.
I just wanted to clarify that I was absolutely wrong regarding the above comment. They DID use different numbers! Dan was/is on the right track with the different part numbers and hopefully someone can find a drawing for the A Body style Bees. I will check to see if Dave's car still has the original quarter windows.
|
|
|
Re: Scat pak decal on quarter window?
[Re: 6bblgt]
#869572
12/07/10 11:02 PM
12/07/10 11:02 PM
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,165 Florida
cataclysm80
master
|
master
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,165
Florida
|
Quote:
The STANDARD stripe on a '70 Challenger R/T was V60 (OPTIONAL colors), so if it was ordered without stripes, the stripe DELETE code would be V68. V90 (OPTIONAL colors) was a N/C (no cost/no charge) OPTION. A66 was STANDARD with V90 (OPTIONAL colors), so if it was ordered without stripes, the stripe DELETE code would be V98.
Oh, I see now. V98 wasn't listed by the R/T model because V98 wasn't available on those cars. That makes perfect sense, Thanks for explaining.
So we'd need to see the V6 Stripe drawing to confirm that the window bee's should also be on V68 stripe delete cars.
Since the 1970 V98 stripe delete cars got the bees, then most likely the 1970 V68 stripe delete cars should have them also, but only the drawing would say for sure.
1971 stripe delete cars are a whole nuther ball game.
Did Faxon ever get around to releasing full sets of the E body drawings yet? (guess not, all I see on their website is 1969 stuff)
Tav
|
|
|
Re: Scat pak decal on quarter window?
[Re: ECS]
#869573
12/07/10 11:31 PM
12/07/10 11:31 PM
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,165 Florida
cataclysm80
master
|
master
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,165
Florida
|
Quote:
There are differences in both the actual drawing and coloring of the decals.
I don't think that my reproductions were necessarily incorrect! They may have been wrong for A and E Body vehicles. Dave Stuart and I both have the original Bees on our Challenger quarters and they look slightly different than the 3505100-1 (or B Body) part numbers. Could this mean that there were actually 3 variations as they pertained to the specific vehicles?
I can understand wanting to have a different set for each body style for use at the factory if the difference is the angle of the cut on the backing to aid in placement on the window.
I don't understand why there would be subtle drawing/coloring differences between the body styles, and I doubt that those differences were intentional. Were all 3 sets made by the same vendor? Maybe the differences are due to different print runs?
Regardless, Kudos to Dave for noticing the differences and providing us with matching reproductions.
Tav
|
|
|
Re: Scat pak decal on quarter window?
[Re: cataclysm80]
#869575
12/08/10 05:20 PM
12/08/10 05:20 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,022 Farmington, CT
KISSAlien
I Live Here
|
I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,022
Farmington, CT
|
Quote:
Since the 1970 V98 stripe delete cars got the bees, then most likely the 1970 V68 stripe delete cars should have them also, but only the drawing would say for sure.
They came on R/Ts and A66 cars in 1970 whether you had stripes, or not.
|
|
|
Re: Scat pak decal on quarter window?
[Re: ECS]
#869576
12/08/10 06:44 PM
12/08/10 06:44 PM
|
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,550 Sacramento CA
Morty426
master
|
master
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,550
Sacramento CA
|
Quote:
Hi Tav! The differences are not "registration" variances in the printing or a "different run" change. There are colors that are not printed in some areas of the NOS decal but ARE present in the assembly line versions. I will show these changes after we manufacture them so we can keep that "slight" advantage over our competition. I have no idea why they added the extra effort and expense to do this. While restoring these cars, I found this same type of redundancy to be evident with quite a few parts.
What will people choose? The NOS version that does not accurately represent the assembly line version or a reproduction that looks exactly like the originals?
Dave,
It's like you say "How much 'wrong' are you willing to accept?"
Now that I know they wrong I'd rather spend the money to get ones that are 'right', specially since this is such a visual part.
M
|
|
|
Re: Scat pak decal on quarter window?
[Re: ECS]
#869577
12/08/10 10:40 PM
12/08/10 10:40 PM
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,165 Florida
cataclysm80
master
|
master
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,165
Florida
|
Quote:
What will people choose? The NOS version that does not accurately represent the assembly line version or a reproduction that looks exactly like the originals?
That IS an interesting situation. I think a lot of people that don't know the difference would choose your reproduction because it's easier to find and probably cheaper than NOS (on top of your excellent reputation for quality). The people "in the know" would probably still choose your assembly line correct reproduction. Looks like you've got a good product on your hands. Thanks for going the extra mile to make it assembly line correct.
If you end up making a different bee decal for each body style, will you also cut the corner off the backing to match the window and aid in placement? (or to save you the work of cutting it, perhaps print a cut line so that the restorer can cut it in the right spot)
I suspect most of the people looking for the NOS version won't know that it's not assembly line correct, so It'll be important for you to have that info in your item description to increase your sales.
After that, I don't suppose very many people would want the NOS ones. Maybe if someone was looking for an aged appearance for a survivor (the kind of person that prefers yellowed plastic over white plastic). OR, Maybe if someone was doing a "day 2" resto where the original owner had placed the bees on a non-scat pack car. OR, Maybe if the NOS price dropped enough due to lack of demand, someone might use them for budget reasons... Just my rambling
I suppose some of the B body guys might still prefer the NOS, since it's correct for their car.
Tav
|
|
|
Re: Scat pak decal on quarter window?
[Re: 6bblgt]
#869580
12/08/10 11:16 PM
12/08/10 11:16 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 29,679 Hamtramck, PA
Alaskan_TA
Fluffy Balladeer
|
Fluffy Balladeer
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 29,679
Hamtramck, PA
|
Quote:
Anyone have pics of their original backing from one of the T/As mentioned?
|
|
|
Re: Scat pak decal on quarter window?
[Re: Alaskan_TA]
#869582
12/08/10 11:22 PM
12/08/10 11:22 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 29,679 Hamtramck, PA
Alaskan_TA
Fluffy Balladeer
|
Fluffy Balladeer
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 29,679
Hamtramck, PA
|
Another consideration..... These cars were driven when new in most cases. If you live in a state (or country) where you need an ice scraper to clear your windows to be able to see to drive, well, ice scrapers were not kind to these stickers. If your 1970 Scat Pack car does not or did not have them, stay warm.
|
|
|
Re: Scat pak decal on quarter window?
[Re: Alaskan_TA]
#869583
12/09/10 12:01 AM
12/09/10 12:01 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,802 Ontario, Canada
mccannix
master
|
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,802
Ontario, Canada
|
Quote:
Another consideration.....
These cars were driven when new in most cases. If you live in a state (or country) where you need an ice scraper to clear your windows to be able to see to drive, well, ice scrapers were not kind to these stickers.
If your 1970 Scat Pack car does not or did not have them, stay warm.
All the bees I have seen were always on the inside glass of the car. Most will tell you though, it is not always fun having bees inside your car.
|
|
|
|
|