Dependable 500 stroker out of a 400 block? - Moparts Forums

Register Log In Moparts Forums Moparts Question and Answer Dependable 500 stroker out of a 400 block?

Print Thread

Page 1 of 2

1

2

Dependable 500 stroker out of a 400 block? #84905 07/06/08 06:15 PM 07/06/08 06:15 PM
Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 2,508 Northern Pa G GLR OP master
GLR OP master G Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 2,508 Northern Pa	I have looked at a few Mopar sites that have stroker kits to make a 500 cu. inch using a 400 block. It is my understanding that this combination using a 4.15 stroke crank the engine life is shortened because the piston is short. Can anyone give me more information on this or tell me who makes a very dependable 500 cu. inch stroker? The engine will be used a little on the street mut will be used at the track also. Thank you!

Re: Dependable 500 stroker out of a 400 block? [Re: GLR] #84906 07/06/08 07:48 PM 07/06/08 07:48 PM
Joined: Jun 2008 Posts: 3,916 usa L lewtot184 master
lewtot184 master L Joined: Jun 2008 Posts: 3,916 usa	i built a 500"-400 for some friends to bracket race. it has an eagle crank, bill miller alum rods, and je pistons. the rods required some healthy notches at the bottom of the cylinders. the short pistons hang out the bottom of the bores some. short pistons should run tighter clearances to keep them stable. i don't think that "short piston" should necessaryily equate to "shorter life". a lot of high rpm endurance engines use very short pistons. i was concerned about a short piston hanging to far out the bottom of the bore and becoming unstable. so far the engine has held together and been pretty reliable.

Re: Dependable 500 stroker out of a 400 block? [Re: lewtot184] #84907 07/06/08 08:17 PM 07/06/08 08:17 PM
Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 2,508 Northern Pa G GLR OP master
GLR OP master G Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 2,508 Northern Pa	Thanks for your reply! So the engine you built is only used at the drag strip? or on the street also? I was also wondering if someone made a taller piston maybe with a shorter rod??? for a better durabilty /longlife of the engine? Or is that a bad idea?

Re: Dependable 500 stroker out of a 400 block? [Re: GLR] #84908 07/06/08 08:38 PM 07/06/08 08:38 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 75,282 A gulag near you. JohnRR I Win
JohnRR I Win Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 75,282 A gulag near you.	Quote: Thanks for your reply! So the engine you built is only used at the drag strip? or on the street also? I was also wondering if someone made a taller piston maybe with a shorter rod??? for a better durabilty /longlife of the engine? Or is that a bad idea? you can get anything you want made . a taller piston is a piece of cake , talk to someone that builds engines like you are interested in and have a piston and rod combo speced. another thing to consider is compression ratio , you need to decide what fuel you want to use and what cylinder head so the piston can be speced accordingly , i'll assume you want a pump gas friendly combo , expect a piston with a D shaped dish , Diamond has shelf stock pistons that may fit the bill and is you want a taller piston for a samll upcharge they can chamnge the compression height to work with a specific rod , which will probably something based off a big block chevy derivative so you'll need a crank with a 2.2 rod journal .

Re: Dependable 500 stroker out of a 400 block? [Re: GLR] #84909 07/06/08 08:43 PM 07/06/08 08:43 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 31,203 Oregon A AndyF I Win
AndyF I Win A Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 31,203 Oregon	A 470 motor with a 3.90 or 3.915 stroke crank works really well in a low deck. That size of stroke gives you enough height to use a taller piston and a decent length connecting rod.

Re: Dependable 500 stroker out of a 400 block? [Re: JohnRR] #84910 07/06/08 08:53 PM 07/06/08 08:53 PM
Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 2,508 Northern Pa G GLR OP master
GLR OP master G Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 2,508 Northern Pa	Thanks John for the information. The problem is the closest engine builder mainly builds Chevy for roundy-round cars. I would like to use the 400 (230-block) that I have for a Drag racing fun as well as a little local street use. I also think I would like to use the new Edelbrock Victor aluminum heads or maybe the Indy heads?

Re: Dependable 500 stroker out of a 400 block? [Re: AndyF] #84911 07/06/08 09:00 PM 07/06/08 09:00 PM
Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 2,508 Northern Pa G GLR OP master
GLR OP master G Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 2,508 Northern Pa	Andy...Thanks for your input! I have thought about a 470 but naturally there is no substatution for cubic inches. Do you know the horse power and torq of the engine you built? Do you know what the gram weight of the rods and pistons? Did it rv up quick? One of the things I want the engine to do is rev up very quick and I will be using a 4-speed Hemi transmission so if I can get the engine to pull at 7000 RPM that would be great!

Re: Dependable 500 stroker out of a 400 block? [Re: GLR] #84912 07/06/08 09:27 PM 07/06/08 09:27 PM
A Anonymous Unregistered
Anonymous Unregistered A	what input? all he said was to build a 470 . that said, and to answer your original question, yes you can build a dependable 500cid from a 400 and have many years of street duty. or at the least, 440source seems to think so.

Re: Dependable 500 stroker out of a 400 block? [Re: GLR] #84913 07/06/08 09:54 PM 07/06/08 09:54 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 15,976 Chilliwack B.C. Canada R RUNCHARGER I Live Here
RUNCHARGER I Live Here R Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 15,976 Chilliwack B.C. Canada	If you want it to pull to reliably to 7,000rpm for several years,go for the 470 that Andy suggested. Sheldon

Re: Dependable 500 stroker out of a 400 block? [Re: AndyF] #84914 07/06/08 09:54 PM 07/06/08 09:54 PM
Joined: Jun 2008 Posts: 3,916 usa L lewtot184 master
lewtot184 master L Joined: Jun 2008 Posts: 3,916 usa	Quote: A 470 motor with a 3.90 or 3.915 stroke crank works really well in a low deck. That size of stroke gives you enough height to use a taller piston and a decent length connecting rod. i've done both the 470 and 500. my personal preference is the 470 whether street or strip.

Re: Dependable 500 stroker out of a 400 block? [Re: lewtot184] #84915 07/06/08 10:00 PM 07/06/08 10:00 PM
Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 2,508 Northern Pa G GLR OP master
GLR OP master G Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 2,508 Northern Pa	O.K. Guys...The 470 does look good. If you have built one of these and run it...Do you know what HP and Torq the motor had/has? What RPM did you take the motor to ? Thank you very much !

Re: Dependable 500 stroker out of a 400 block? [Re: GLR] #84916 07/06/08 10:18 PM 07/06/08 10:18 PM
Joined: Feb 2007 Posts: 2,315 MOPAR HEADQUARTERS IN ALDEN NY H hemigod426 top fuel
hemigod426 top fuel H Joined: Feb 2007 Posts: 2,315 MOPAR HEADQUARTERS IN ALDEN NY	if your building all out race a-body go with 400=500 deal.but remember it will cost more external oiling pan and kit, cant use stock pickup.cant use stock motor mounts wont fit. now you will have to go motor plate.id say go with 440 block, 500 inch kit is drop in deal with ceby or mopar crank pins.stock pan,pickup, mounts fit fine MOPAR OR NO CAR

Re: Dependable 500 stroker out of a 400 block? [Re: hemigod426] #84917 07/06/08 10:25 PM 07/06/08 10:25 PM
Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 2,508 Northern Pa G GLR OP master
GLR OP master G Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 2,508 Northern Pa	I never thought about the stock style pick up not working. The reason I was going to use the 400 block was; 1. I have a 1971 400 "230 block" 2. The "B" engine is a little smaller than a 440 and is lighter. 3. Exhaust I thought would be easier in an "A" body.

Re: Dependable 500 stroker out of a 400 block? [Re: GLR] #84918 07/06/08 10:29 PM 07/06/08 10:29 PM
Joined: Feb 2007 Posts: 2,315 MOPAR HEADQUARTERS IN ALDEN NY H hemigod426 top fuel
hemigod426 top fuel H Joined: Feb 2007 Posts: 2,315 MOPAR HEADQUARTERS IN ALDEN NY	Quote: I never thought about the stock style pick up not working. The reason I was going to use the 400 block was; 1. I have a 1971 400 "230 block" 2. The "B" engine is a little smaller than a 440 and is lighter. 3. Exhaust I thought would be easier in an "A" body. go with 451 cube 400, all stock parts fit and it will be plenty for street/strip a-body MOPAR OR NO CAR

Re: Dependable 500 stroker out of a 400 block? [Re: GLR] #84919 07/06/08 10:35 PM 07/06/08 10:35 PM
Joined: Aug 2005 Posts: 1,074 Wichita Kansas CH3NO2 super stock
CH3NO2 super stock Joined: Aug 2005 Posts: 1,074 Wichita Kansas	The 470 or the 512 job gives you more of a compression distance than the 500 inch job. To me, either one would need a head that flows in the 350cfm range with a intake manifold that is equal to the cfm range of the heads. Engine by DeTar http://www.kansasbadman.com

Re: Dependable 500 stroker out of a 400 block? [Re: hemigod426] #84920 07/06/08 10:40 PM 07/06/08 10:40 PM
Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 2,508 Northern Pa G GLR OP master
GLR OP master G Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 2,508 Northern Pa	Well I had a 451 built about 15 years ago and it worked o.k. but I wasn't overly impressed. 2-years ago I had a 496 cubed 440 built for my 1 ton and I really like it as far as a torq monster. It not set up like one for a high performance car but I can see it's potential. If I can fit a 440 size block easily into my 67 Barracuda and have room for large tube under chassy headers I would go that route but I also want to consider the weight of the 440 block vs. the 400 block.

Re: Dependable 500 stroker out of a 400 block? [Re: GLR] #84921 07/06/08 11:37 PM 07/06/08 11:37 PM
Joined: Jan 2004 Posts: 879 Pittsburgh, Pa J Jeff_383 super stock
Jeff_383 super stock J Joined: Jan 2004 Posts: 879 Pittsburgh, Pa	My 500" lowdeck uses stock motor mounts, did not require an external oiling kit, and uses a stock 1/2" pick up. Just needed careful attention to the clearancing for the block and rods.

Re: Dependable 500 stroker out of a 400 block? [Re: Jeff_383] #84922 07/06/08 11:42 PM 07/06/08 11:42 PM
Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 2,508 Northern Pa G GLR OP master
GLR OP master G Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 2,508 Northern Pa	How do you like your 500 cu. inch stroker? Did you build it? Was it a kit or? What body car do you have it in? Do you know it's HP and torq?

Re: Dependable 500 stroker out of a 400 block? [Re: Jeff_383] #84923 07/06/08 11:42 PM 07/06/08 11:42 PM
A Anonymous Unregistered
Anonymous Unregistered A	there are no stock 1/2" lowdeck oil pickups.

Re: Dependable 500 stroker out of a 400 block? #84924 07/07/08 12:05 AM 07/07/08 12:05 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 75,282 A gulag near you. JohnRR I Win
JohnRR I Win Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 75,282 A gulag near you.	Quote: there are no stock 1/2" lowdeck oil pickups. 1/2 pickup is PAN dependent and you can get around that if you use your brain ,it's has nothing to do with the blocks deck height . if you want to get TECHNICAL there were no WEDGE MOTORS with a 1/2 pickup .

Re: Dependable 500 stroker out of a 400 block? DELETED [Re: JohnRR] #84925 07/07/08 12:07 AM 07/07/08 12:07 AM
A Anonymous Unregistered
Anonymous Unregistered A	Post deleted by not_a_charger

Re: Dependable 500 stroker out of a 400 block? #84926 07/07/08 12:07 AM 07/07/08 12:07 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 75,282 A gulag near you. JohnRR I Win
JohnRR I Win Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 75,282 A gulag near you.	Quote: Quote: Quote: there are no stock 1/2" lowdeck oil pickups. 1/2 pickup is PAN dependent and you can get around that if you use your brain ,it's has nothing to do with the blocks deck height . if you want to get TECHNICAL there were no WEDGE MOTORS with a 1/2 pickup . if you REALLY want to get technical you can kiss my your name fits you PERFECTLY ...

Re: Dependable 500 stroker out of a 400 block? [Re: JohnRR] #84927 07/07/08 12:11 AM 07/07/08 12:11 AM
A Anonymous Unregistered
Anonymous Unregistered A	Quote: Quote: Quote: Quote: there are no stock 1/2" lowdeck oil pickups. 1/2 pickup is PAN dependent and you can get around that if you use your brain ,it's has nothing to do with the blocks deck height . if you want to get TECHNICAL there were no WEDGE MOTORS with a 1/2 pickup . if you REALLY want to get technical you can kiss my your name fits you PERFECTLY ... thanks. i aim to please the masses. BTW i was just joking something this place needs a little more of. i wouldn't say ALL wedges though.. what about the Max Wedges Last edited by STUPIFY; 07/07/08 12:15 AM.

Re: Dependable 500 stroker out of a 400 block? [Re: GLR] #84928 07/07/08 12:53 AM 07/07/08 12:53 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 31,203 Oregon A AndyF I Win
AndyF I Win A Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 31,203 Oregon	Not sure why you want the motor to still be pulling at 7000 rpm but if that is your goal then you'll need to go with either a 451 or maybe a 470 motor. If you build it bigger than that then even the Max Wedge sized heads won't be able to feed it past 7000 rpm. If you want a really high revving low deck motor then use B1 heads. But that is a much more expensive project than what it sounded like you were proposing. You should be able to get headers for a low deck 470 with Indy heads. Not so sure about the Victor heads since the ports are moved. Lots of things are related to each other so you have to think thru all of the issues when you select a combination of parts.

Re: Dependable 500 stroker out of a 400 block? #84929 07/07/08 12:58 AM 07/07/08 12:58 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 8,064 Arlington, Texas earlybee master
earlybee master Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 8,064 Arlington, Texas	AndyF,s engines, See True Tales, Stroker http://www.arengineering.com/articles/articleframe.html

Re: Dependable 500 stroker out of a 400 block? [Re: earlybee] #84930 07/07/08 11:07 AM 07/07/08 11:07 AM
Joined: May 2008 Posts: 5,399 Aurora, Colorado 451Mopar master
451Mopar master Joined: May 2008 Posts: 5,399 Aurora, Colorado	I am building a 400 "B" to 500 cid stroker, but it will mostly be a bracket engine. The lightweight pistons should make the engine rev really well, but I can see how the short skirt of the piston would rock more than the taller 470 cid stroker piston. I figure this will wear the rings faster, but on the type of engine I am building it might get inspected and freshened up every year or two anyhow. The 451 Stroker I had, laster 12 years with no problems then the intake valve broke and holed the piston, and nicked up the cylinder, plus made a mess out of the cylinder head in that chamber. otherwise it was a very reliable engine, but give up displacement to the bigger stroker engines. We just fired up my friends 470 last week. I guess we will see how it performs and lasts..

Re: Dependable 500 stroker out of a 400 block? [Re: 451Mopar] #84931 07/07/08 01:11 PM 07/07/08 01:11 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 75,282 A gulag near you. JohnRR I Win
JohnRR I Win Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 75,282 A gulag near you.	Quote: The 451 Stroker I had, laster 12 years with no problems then the intake valve broke and holed the piston, and nicked up the cylinder, plus made a mess out of the cylinder head in that chamber. otherwise it was a very reliable engine, but give up displacement to the bigger stroker engines. We just fired up my friends 470 last week. I guess we will see how it performs and lasts.. what CH piston did you use in that 451 ?

Re: Dependable 500 stroker out of a 400 block? [Re: JohnRR] #84932 07/07/08 05:18 PM 07/07/08 05:18 PM
Joined: Feb 2003 Posts: 1,739 Grand Forks, ND Hemi_Ram top fuel
Hemi_Ram top fuel Joined: Feb 2003 Posts: 1,739 Grand Forks, ND	Go with the 470; my machinist advised against the 500 becuase of the short piston(rocking in the bore, noisier and ring life). I built one for my 74 Dart a few years ago and the new owner says it is still going strong with zero problems. Of course if your intention is for race only then that is another story. www.picturetrail.com/hemi_ram

Re: Dependable 500 stroker out of a 400 block? [Re: Hemi_Ram] #84933 07/07/08 05:30 PM 07/07/08 05:30 PM
Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 12,478 Kalispell Mt. H HotRodDave I Live Here
HotRodDave I Live Here H Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 12,478 Kalispell Mt.	A shorter rod and longer piston means the wrist pin will come to a lower point in the bore. I would run the 500 and get a kit with the longest rods. Longer rods put less side load on the piston and the overall height of the piston (Crown to tip of skirt) should be the same. If you are dead set on a 7000 rpm motor though then get the 470 and still use the longest rods you can. If you have good machine work and quality parts then either one should last a good long time. I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!

Re: Dependable 500 stroker out of a 400 block? [Re: HotRodDave] #84934 07/07/08 10:01 PM 07/07/08 10:01 PM
Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 2,508 Northern Pa G GLR OP master
GLR OP master G Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 2,508 Northern Pa	Thank you everyone for your comments. I guess from all that have posted about this that I will probabily build a 470..but it isn't carved in stone yet..LOL I also will check out all of the aluminum heads and see which ones will flow from the bottom to the top of my RPM range. If anyone else has any other thought on this..Please let me know. Thank you!

Page 1 of 2

1

2

Moderated by Al_Alguire, Hotwheelsjr, moparts, not_a_charger, RangerDan440, tboomer

Hop To

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1