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Viper Brake conversion Q's
#817654
09/29/10 05:43 PM
09/29/10 05:43 PM
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 3,358
Berwyn, IL
challenger70
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 3,358
Berwyn, IL
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I am getting more serious about the upgrade and had a few q's. Is there anywhere I can get just the AR Engineering kit w/ out the rotors, I already have them? What is a good source for the newer '03+ calipers besides e-bay? Finally can the rear viper brakes be adapted to an 8.75? I was planning on pbr's for the rear which I think will work but was wondering why the viper backs wouldn't work as well. 
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Re: Viper Brake conversion Q's
[Re: challenger70]
#817655
09/29/10 10:32 PM
09/29/10 10:32 PM
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 12,383
Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
Dragula
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 12,383
Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
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I just have one question, why? There are plenty of current options that fit. And yes I understand Mopar people like to be a little different, but if I could take you down the track in 10s or less in my Cuda and hit the brakes, I guarentee you wouldn't let me without you having your seat belt on!
Heck I went 11.1s at 121mph in a 4010lb Hemi Charger the other week with only drums on it! And then got promptly told if I go 11.0's with only a lap belt, I will asked to leave until there is a bar and a harness in it.....Why Viper brakes?
Last edited by Dragula; 09/29/10 10:33 PM.
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Re: Viper Brake conversion Q's
[Re: Dragula]
#817657
09/30/10 07:57 AM
09/30/10 07:57 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,558
Montana
FuryUs
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,558
Montana
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Quote:
I just have one question, why? There are plenty of current options that fit. And yes I understand Mopar people like to be a little different, but if I could take you down the track in 10s or less in my Cuda and hit the brakes, I guarentee you wouldn't let me without you having your seat belt on!
Heck I went 11.1s at 121mph in a 4010lb Hemi Charger the other week with only drums on it! And then got promptly told if I go 11.0's with only a lap belt, I will asked to leave until there is a bar and a harness in it.....Why Viper brakes?
So are you saying he should get Viper seat belts instead? Why does anyone upgrade any working component on an old car? That hemi isn't stock running 11.1. Why were changes made? Because the owner wanted something different/newer/better/faster/shinier?
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Re: Viper Brake conversion Q's
[Re: Dragula]
#817658
09/30/10 11:25 AM
09/30/10 11:25 AM
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 3,358
Berwyn, IL
challenger70
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 3,358
Berwyn, IL
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Quote:
I just have one question, why? There are plenty of current options that fit. And yes I understand Mopar people like to be a little different, but if I could take you down the track in 10s or less in my Cuda and hit the brakes, I guarentee you wouldn't let me without you having your seat belt on!
Heck I went 11.1s at 121mph in a 4010lb Hemi Charger the other week with only drums on it! And then got promptly told if I go 11.0's with only a lap belt, I will asked to leave until there is a bar and a harness in it.....Why Viper brakes?
If it was a drag car I wouldn't care, but I plan on doing some open track days once I get the Charger together and sorted out, it will have subframe connectors, torque boxes, inner fender braces, XV level 1 suspension and hopefully 4 wheel disks. I would consider the 11.75 cop brake upgrade that I have on my Challenger but those parts are getting harder to locate and since I am starting fresh why not update them? + viper brakes poking out through my chargers wheels would be badass  And just because you can run 10-11 second 1/4's w/ drum brakes doesn't mean I want to risk my life in modern traffic with them as I drive my cars alot. 
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Re: Viper Brake conversion Q's
[Re: challenger70]
#817659
09/30/10 11:50 AM
09/30/10 11:50 AM
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 12,383
Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
Dragula
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 12,383
Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
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The Charger's brakes are stock and it's a street car. It is pretty close to stock, you would be very surprised, we were. Darn hemi's are fast.
I drive mine whenever weather permits, which has been most of this summer. I just think if you don't have the sneakers to go with the brakes, they are overkill and won't stop any sooner, like a cam matched to head flow if the tires don't match the brakes, what's the point.
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Re: Viper Brake conversion Q's
[Re: Dragula]
#817660
09/30/10 03:14 PM
09/30/10 03:14 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,067
Irving, TX
feets
Senior Management
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Senior Management
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,067
Irving, TX
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Quote:
The Charger's brakes are stock and it's a street car. It is pretty close to stock, you would be very surprised, we were. Darn hemi's are fast.
I drive mine whenever weather permits, which has been most of this summer. I just think if you don't have the sneakers to go with the brakes, they are overkill and won't stop any sooner, like a cam matched to head flow if the tires don't match the brakes, what's the point.
I can tell you that I LOVE the big brakes, wheels, and tires on the hot rod. They are amongst the best changes I ever made to the car.
When you lean on the brakes the car stops straight and does so quickly. Wet or dry. Driving through deep water doesn't phase 'em. I've definitely had them way too hot to touch but never felt any fade.
When I had the 11.75" cop car rotors on the car I could brake boost (load the engine against the brakes at speed to build boost) on the highway and push through the brakes. That never happened with the AMG brakes.
I made a shakedown run at the Texas Motorplex. I trapped at 114 mph and was able to make the first tun off with no trouble. That same exit was a little hard to make at 105 mph with the old brakes.
We are brothers and sisters doing time on the planet for better or worse. I'll take the better, if you don't mind.
- Stu Harmon
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Re: Viper Brake conversion Q's
[Re: Dragula]
#817661
09/30/10 03:27 PM
09/30/10 03:27 PM
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,688
Marlboro, NY, USA
Rick_Ehrenberg
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,688
Marlboro, NY, USA
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Quote:
...
Heck I went 11.1s at 121mph in a 4010lb Hemi Charger the other week with only drums on it! And then got promptly told if I go 11.0's with only a lap belt, I will asked to leave until there is a bar and a harness in it.....Why Viper brakes?
Ever drive Arizona Rt. 89A - fast? Tail of the Dragon? Mulholland Drive? Storm King Mountain? Sure, drums or small rotors stop great once -- but don't try it several times in short order. This is why NASCAR racers get away with smaller brakes on superspeedways!
Also, good luck threshhold braking with Bendix Duo-Servos in poor traction or split Mu conditions. They have 2 positions, like a light switch. (The old Total Contact brakes were far superior in that regard).
And, I wish you the best should you need to get on the brakes in a curve.
Harness? heck, if you never crash, it is just dead weight. I drive great, so do you. But how about the drunk coming at you?
Just my 2¢....
Rick
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Re: Viper Brake conversion Q's
[Re: Rick_Ehrenberg]
#817662
09/30/10 03:33 PM
09/30/10 03:33 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,067
Irving, TX
feets
Senior Management
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Senior Management
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Posts: 28,067
Irving, TX
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Rick, I'd love to run those roads. Unfortunately, they're a wee bit of a drive from DFW.
The hot rod is also going away and it's Imperial replacement will require a bit more work to handle well. Throwing 5100 lbs around those curves is going to be living on the edge even with some updates.
We are brothers and sisters doing time on the planet for better or worse. I'll take the better, if you don't mind.
- Stu Harmon
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Re: Viper Brake conversion Q's
[Re: feets]
#817664
09/30/10 04:48 PM
09/30/10 04:48 PM
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,688
Marlboro, NY, USA
Rick_Ehrenberg
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,688
Marlboro, NY, USA
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Quote:
Rick, I'd love to run those roads. Unfortunately, they're a wee bit of a drive from DFW.
The hot rod is also going away and it's Imperial replacement will require a bit more work to handle well. Throwing 5100 lbs around those curves is going to be living on the edge even with some updates.
What year Imp? I have always been amazed how well the '60s Imps handle. Very stiff platform, body-on-frame with NO RUBBER, bolted solidly. Also a pair of trailing arms plus the leafs.
Get FFI to carve you out a pair of wrist-size swaybars, get some 9" or 10" wheels and decent rubber, and go blow some minds!
Rick
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Re: Viper Brake conversion Q's
[Re: AndyF]
#817665
09/30/10 05:11 PM
09/30/10 05:11 PM
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 3,358
Berwyn, IL
challenger70
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 3,358
Berwyn, IL
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Quote:
If you're going to be running track days with a big B body car then stepping up to a 13 inch kit is smart. You'll have better choices with 17 inch rims and the bigger rotors will work better than the 11.75 inch stuff.
DoctorDiff sells a 14 inch brake kit using new Charger rotors and Viper calipers if you're willing to run 18 inch rims. I'll send you a PM with info on the used Viper calipers that I have for sale.
I'd recommend a rear disc kit from DoctorDiff rather than trying to use the Viper setup out back. The Viper uses two calipers per wheel in the rear which requires double fabrication. Also, the Viper bolt pattern is 6x4.50 so the stock rotors don't fit on a 8.75 rearend. By the time you fabricate the custom mounts and get new rotors built you'll have a bunch of money invested.
I wouldn't be opposed to 18's but I have a buddy w/ extra mustang bullit wheels (17") that work with the viper conversion(right?) so I can save some coin there. I could see upgrading to 18's down the road but I think for what I will be doing(rare track day and "enthousiastic" street driving 13" rotors will be fine.
Ok so critique my plan.
This will be for a '68 Charger, 4 speed Manual brakes and would like to completely replace the 4 wheel manual drum setup on the car.
I was planning on using rotors and wheels I got from my buddy that had an '04 Cobra and was hoping to duplicate the setup on that car but upgrade to the Brembo Viper calipers up front. I guess the rotors won't work so I'd be looking at the full Viper kit from AR engineering up front, I have a set of '73-76 A-body spindles already. For the rear I was planning on PBR calipers assuming they can work with the 8.75 and have a parking brake. Do I need custom rotors for the rear too? Master cylinder recomendations (I'd like to keep it manual brakes).
Who makes the "custom" front rotors for the viper coversion? Brembo? I guess I am concerned about part availability in the future as opposed to an off the shelf part.
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Re: Viper Brake conversion Q's
[Re: challenger70]
#817669
10/01/10 03:26 AM
10/01/10 03:26 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 30,989
Oregon
AndyF
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 30,989
Oregon
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Quote:
Quote:
If you're going to be running track days with a big B body car then stepping up to a 13 inch kit is smart. You'll have better choices with 17 inch rims and the bigger rotors will work better than the 11.75 inch stuff.
DoctorDiff sells a 14 inch brake kit using new Charger rotors and Viper calipers if you're willing to run 18 inch rims. I'll send you a PM with info on the used Viper calipers that I have for sale.
I'd recommend a rear disc kit from DoctorDiff rather than trying to use the Viper setup out back. The Viper uses two calipers per wheel in the rear which requires double fabrication. Also, the Viper bolt pattern is 6x4.50 so the stock rotors don't fit on a 8.75 rearend. By the time you fabricate the custom mounts and get new rotors built you'll have a bunch of money invested.
I wouldn't be opposed to 18's but I have a buddy w/ extra mustang bullit wheels (17") that work with the viper conversion(right?) so I can save some coin there. I could see upgrading to 18's down the road but I think for what I will be doing(rare track day and "enthousiastic" street driving 13" rotors will be fine.
Ok so critique my plan.
This will be for a '68 Charger, 4 speed Manual brakes and would like to completely replace the 4 wheel manual drum setup on the car.
I was planning on using rotors and wheels I got from my buddy that had an '04 Cobra and was hoping to duplicate the setup on that car but upgrade to the Brembo Viper calipers up front. I guess the rotors won't work so I'd be looking at the full Viper kit from AR engineering up front, I have a set of '73-76 A-body spindles already. For the rear I was planning on PBR calipers assuming they can work with the 8.75 and have a parking brake. Do I need custom rotors for the rear too? Master cylinder recomendations (I'd like to keep it manual brakes).
Who makes the "custom" front rotors for the viper coversion? Brembo? I guess I am concerned about part availability in the future as opposed to an off the shelf part.
Yes, the Mustang wheels fit my brake kit. Here are a couple of cars with my 13 inch brake kits installed. Both have Mustang rims.
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Re: Viper Brake conversion Q's
[Re: brads70]
#817671
10/03/10 05:36 PM
10/03/10 05:36 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,067
Irving, TX
feets
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Senior Management
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Posts: 28,067
Irving, TX
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Andy's Viper caliper kit on stock rotors will fit a 15" wheel. The Viper caliper kit on 13" rotors will fit 17" wheels. Both kits use front calipers. http://www.arengineering.com/caliper_menu/calipermenu.html
We are brothers and sisters doing time on the planet for better or worse. I'll take the better, if you don't mind.
- Stu Harmon
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Re: Viper Brake conversion Q's
[Re: feets]
#817672
10/04/10 03:06 AM
10/04/10 03:06 AM
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,168
Vancouver, WA
MoparMarq
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,168
Vancouver, WA
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Quote:
Andy's Viper caliper kit on stock rotors will fit a 15" wheel.
Not true. They may fit SOME 15" wheels, probably all steel wheels, but not all aluminum/alloy wheels.
I have the kit on my RR, and the 15x8 AR 200S wheels (from the 80s) (3-3/4" BS) rub slightly on the calipers. Not enough to prevent me from moving the car around the garage, but certainly enough to prevent driving it. New wheels/tires (17") are on the list.
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Re: Viper Brake conversion Q's
[Re: MoparMarq]
#817673
10/04/10 11:06 AM
10/04/10 11:06 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,041
MD
RTSE4ME
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,041
MD
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Quote:
Quote:
Andy's Viper caliper kit on stock rotors will fit a 15" wheel.
Not true. They may fit SOME 15" wheels, probably all steel wheels, but not all aluminum/alloy wheels.
I have the kit on my RR, and the 15x8 AR 200S wheels (from the 80s) (3-3/4" BS) rub slightly on the calipers. Not enough to prevent me from moving the car around the garage, but certainly enough to prevent driving it. New wheels/tires (17") are on the list.
I think drop center type 15" wheels like rallyes will not fit.
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