Re: Baro reading inside scoop?
[Re: theclutcher]
#811679
09/22/10 04:41 PM
09/22/10 04:41 PM
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 5,080 organ
maximum entropy
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master
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 5,080
organ
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seems like it would be quite complicated- lots of variables to compromise the accuracy of the final calculation. wind speed, air density, vehicle speed, scoop opening area, boundary layer interference, leakage, engine intake volume versus vehicle speed/ engine rpm, etc. i'd stick some kind of barometer in the scoop. that would be interesting!
for what is the good life if not doing things thoughtfully?
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Re: Baro reading inside scoop?
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#811681
09/22/10 05:08 PM
09/22/10 05:08 PM
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 12,129 Cleveland
sunroofgtx
I Live Here
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I Live Here
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Posts: 12,129
Cleveland
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Why in the world would you want to know that? I would think even if it weren't moving, if the carb is sealed to the scoop, it would still be equal the outside air.. As the cars speed increased, the pressure would increase. I'd imagine if the speed got so great, it would start building boost, as forced air is shot into the carb.
Barometric pressure is the force that is exerted on objects by the weight of the atmosphere above them. A screw weighs the same under the scoop as it does out of the scoop, so the air would weigh the same, just the force of accelleration would increase it's density.
Join the quickest team in motorsports. Team FireCore. CustomWiresets.com
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Re: Baro reading inside scoop?
[Re: sunroofgtx]
#811683
09/22/10 05:12 PM
09/22/10 05:12 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 945 La Vernia, Texas
Pat7272
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 945
La Vernia, Texas
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Quote:
wouldn't it be the same as the air surrounding the car?
I think, if its a forward facing scoop, that at speed pressure inside the scoop should be just a little higher than ambient.
If its a cowl type scoop, pressure inside could possibly be a little lower? I dont think the effect would be as great in this situation.
Id be interested to see pressure and temperate readings inside and outside forward facing and cowl type hood scoops. At speed.
Pat
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Re: Baro reading inside scoop?
[Re: maximum entropy]
#811684
09/22/10 05:18 PM
09/22/10 05:18 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Quote:
Quote:
All I would do is put a pedo(sp) tube in and attach it to a inch of water gauge to measure the pressure
it seems like that would be something the pro stockers would do? i think it's spelled "pitot"?
I believe you are correct on the spelling and I would think the pro stocks do it in the wind tunnel
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Re: Baro reading inside scoop?
[Re: HemiGreg]
#811688
09/22/10 11:20 PM
09/22/10 11:20 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,160 L.I. N.Y. Hemi Street
HemiGreg
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L.I. N.Y. Hemi Street
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The formula for theoretical maximum ram pressure ('velocity head') is: p = pv²/288g, where p is the velocity head in psi Þ is air density in lb./cu. ft. v is velocity in ft/sec. (88 ft./sec. = 60 mph) g is acceleration due to gravity, 32.2 ft./sec/sec. on our home planet
So for example, at 150 mph (220 ft./sec.): p = (0.076 x 220²)/(288 x 32.2) = 0.4 psi (~11 " H2O), or about a 2.7% potential power increase.
When measuring scoop pressure a big problem is that we are looking for a pressure difference between the inside of the scoop and the atmosphere, but in a moving car, where can you measure undisturbed atmosphere? Opening/closing windows affects a gauge with it's reference pressure pick up in the cockpit, as does flow through any openings in the firewall, rear of the body, etc. The answer is a static pressure tube (one half of the pitot/static probe used for air speed indicators on aircraft) The additional air being sent into the carbs in a typical scoop like yours at 150mph is .40 psi at 180 its .53psi and at 210 about .65 psi. which means that 14.7psi + .6 psi +15.3psI or 15.35/14.7=1.044psi or 14% more Air introduced to the carb tops at speed vs non ram air effects. this is all assumind sea level and all other things being constant. i can also work it out in ref to inches of HG like the DA readings give you in feet. thats why you run better at a lover elevation where the air is heavier thus denser, more air 20/80 gets to mix more fuel into the same cylinders.
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Re: Baro reading inside scoop?
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#811691
09/23/10 10:56 AM
09/23/10 10:56 AM
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,172 Ohio
theclutcher
OP
top fuel
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OP
top fuel
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,172
Ohio
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Thanks all for the replies, excellent info. Just thinking about two issues been rearing head recently. 1) scoop potential 2) pressure increase in entire engine bay, fender to fender.
Have resolved these issues prior, contemplating new ways to solve them.
Need to find supplier of pitot tubes, static pressure tubes gauges and related equipment. Any recomendations Greg?
As the speed of vehicle is increasing, realizing were loosing significant amount to parasitic drag and other entities. Thinking additional improvements in air management will reap sizable gains.
See the cover of ND, Jim Defranks car? Hmmm, need some wind tunnel time or smooze with some Bonneville guys.
Last edited by theclutcher; 09/23/10 11:12 AM.
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Re: Baro reading inside scoop?
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#811692
09/23/10 12:21 PM
09/23/10 12:21 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,160 L.I. N.Y. Hemi Street
HemiGreg
master
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Posts: 3,160
L.I. N.Y. Hemi Street
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Quote:
I didn't see any mention of Bernulis (SP?) principle on fluid dynamics and the venturi effect of the hood scoop opening if it is acting as a venturi In a venturi the pressure decreases as the air speed increases
thats what happens when the air rushes over unsealed carb tops and lowers effective atmos.psi. instead. hpefullu our friend bernuli is only inside the carb
one of best supplies: Dwyer do google and search your spec then buy the stuff on e-bag
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