Need some Cam advice for a street 413 Long Ram engine
#810175
09/21/10 10:51 AM
09/21/10 10:51 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 42,714 Spokane Washington
ScottSmith_Harms
OP
Mr Wizzard
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OP
Mr Wizzard
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 42,714
Spokane Washington
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I have a rebuild 413 long Ram engine that I plan on using in a fairly heavy car (3,800lbs). The engine specs are as follows: 413 bored to 426 cid Stock rods, polished side beams, rebushed with resized big ends 9.5:1 Diamond Lightweight Pistons Stock stroke 440 steel crank Stock 521 heads with OS valves, no porting just cleaned up behind the valves Max Wedge adjustable rockers with RAS collars and blueprinted tip job Stock Long Ram intake with stock 2903 carbs (I also have a stock short ram setup with 35050 carbs that might be used which would typically boost the peak TQ/HP about 1,000 rpm) It is all fresh and ready to fire but currently has a hyd cam (Straightline Performance). I am a bit nervous about todays oils and have decided to upgrade to a hyd roller cam before I fire it off. Goals are pump gas, low mainetance, mainly street driven package, enough vacuum to use power brakes, but with some teeth when I want to make a hard run or two at the strip on the weekends. Any grind suggestions? Best sources?
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Re: Need some Cam advice for a street 413 Long Ram engine
[Re: ScottSmith_Harms]
#810176
09/21/10 01:58 PM
09/21/10 01:58 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,741 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,741
Bend,OR USA
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When you say "short ram" are you referring to the 1961 and later manifolds that have the center divider removed half way up the runners? If so I would use a cam simialr to a Comp 260H or close to that If not I do have access to one of the best cam techs at Comp(not one of the phone techs), PM me if you want.
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: Need some Cam advice for a street 413 Long Ram engine
[Re: ScottSmith_Harms]
#810178
09/21/10 08:49 PM
09/21/10 08:49 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 693 Dunnellon, FL
longram60
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 693
Dunnellon, FL
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Scott, I'm running a Hughes Engine HER2836BL Hydraulic roller in my 'short' long ram car. I'm not sure this would be best in your case, I'm running a ~3000-3200 stall converter, 3.55 rear and I don't have power brakes (if I remember correctly my vacuum is 12-14" ay idle) I run the 2903 Carters. I'm happy with this cam, drive it to the strip, runs high 12's, low 13's. I'd call Dave for a recommendation.
1979 AMC Spirit, NHRA Q/SA
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Re: Need some Cam advice for a street 413 Long Ram engine
[Re: longram60]
#810179
09/21/10 09:58 PM
09/21/10 09:58 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,478 Kalispell Mt.
HotRodDave
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,478
Kalispell Mt.
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If possible I would get one with similar duration numbers to the original, they spent a lot of time figureing out what length those hearer style intakes had to be to make use of preasure waves and they just won't work as intended with very different opening and closeing points, lift on the other hand can be as high as you want and not have any negative effects. If you do chose to change cam timing significantly don't expect the tuneing effect to work so well. The motor can still be made a performer while ignoreing those things but it just won't really be takeing advantage of those tuneing waves.
I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!
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Re: Need some Cam advice for a street 413 Long Ram engine
[Re: HotRodDave]
#810183
09/22/10 09:17 AM
09/22/10 09:17 AM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,533 Indiana
Fury Fan
master
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master
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,533
Indiana
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HotRodDave beat me to it. Read this: http://www.chrysler300club.com/uniq/allaboutrams/ramtheory.htmthis... http://www.chrysler300club.com/uniq/allaboutrams/allaboutrams.htmland from one of those pages... Quote:
The cam gear is special for the ram cars. The gear has the cam locating pin hole retarded 2 degrees that makes the crank gear timing at the damper 4 degrees retarded but does not effect the specific timing of the engine according to the factory ignition timing sequence at the damper. This "retarding" affects the mid to high range torque output of the engine. The combination of the cam retard and the ram action produces optimum horsepower and torque. Engines rebuilt with the "standard" cam gear produce 10-15% less power and torque.
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Re: Need some Cam advice for a street 413 Long Ram engine
[Re: Fury Fan]
#810184
09/22/10 09:49 AM
09/22/10 09:49 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 42,714 Spokane Washington
ScottSmith_Harms
OP
Mr Wizzard
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OP
Mr Wizzard
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 42,714
Spokane Washington
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Quote:
The cam gear is special for the ram cars. The gear has the cam locating pin hole retarded 2 degrees that makes the crank gear timing at the damper 4 degrees retarded but does not effect the specific timing of the engine according to the factory ignition timing sequence at the damper. This "retarding" affects the mid to high range torque output of the engine. The combination of the cam retard and the ram action produces optimum horsepower and torque. Engines rebuilt with the "standard" cam gear produce 10-15% less power and torque.
Yes I have read and am familiar with all of that, however, this being a "warmer" than stock engine I don't plan on using a stock cam. I am seeking someone knowledgable enough about these engines to offer a more aggressive cam profile in a hydraulic roller cam design with the above facts in mind to take full advantage of my combo.
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Re: Need some Cam advice for a street 413 Long Ram engine
[Re: Fury Fan]
#810186
09/22/10 10:33 AM
09/22/10 10:33 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 42,714 Spokane Washington
ScottSmith_Harms
OP
Mr Wizzard
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OP
Mr Wizzard
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 42,714
Spokane Washington
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Sure thing Fury. Someone else asked about my combo so here is a more detailed description of what's in it.
Comp Ratio (pistons) is approx from memmory: 9.5:1, specs on pistons: Diamond forged part# 18891 Bore: 4.25, comp hieght 2.065, effective volume -4cc, Lock ring part# 01-5114.
Stroke is stock = 3.75 Desired RPM range = Mostly street driven, something that will live between 1,000-4,000 rpm but might see 6K in a race.
Lifters preferred = Hydraulic roller (don't want to pull the valve covers EVER!)
Exhaust sytem = Stock manifolds (I have both the log style 1960 300F versions and the "header" style 63 300J style), dual 2.5 manderel bent with an X pipe. I will probably run the log style on this engine.
Car weight = 3,800
Rear gear choices 3.23, 3.55, 4.10 (8.75 centers on hand)
Tires = 27.00 may go to 29.00
Converter stall = not sure yet, ideas welcome
Carbs are stock 500 cfm (2903's came on all Long Ram cars, 3505's came on Short ram cars, I have both, both seem to be the same CFM)
Heads are not actually 516's but an earlier predecessor, same basic small valve closed chamber casting as a 516, I'm sure flow is not impressive (likely in the 210-240 range) but they do have a first class HP valve job, bronze guides, stainless valves, and blueprinted RAS adjustable Max Wedge rocker gear.
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