Re: 5.9 magnum hates mods?
[Re: Ultanium]
#809933
11/08/10 08:33 PM
11/08/10 08:33 PM
|
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 16 Bellville, Texas
Ultanium
OP
member
|
OP
member
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 16
Bellville, Texas
|
Just a quick update & some dyno data. Pig rich condition was caused by a TRW o2 sensor, switched to NGK & truck ran good. Still not the power I expected from the mods though, so I put it on a dyno in Houston & here are the results.
RPM. HP. TQ. AF. 2250. 89. 209. 12.6 2400. 93. 202. 11.9 2700. 105. 205. 11.7 3000. 114. 200. 11.3 3275. 118. 190. 10.9 3575. 125. 180. 10.3 3875. 129. 175. 10.3 4175. 134. 167. 10.2 4450. 135. 160. 10.2 4750. 152. 169. 10.5 5000. 160. 169. 10.7
Obviously something is killing it in the middle, good TQ off the line, flat on her face until 4700 when the AF starts coming back up. From top to bottom I have a 5.9 mag, 14" open air cleaner, stock TB, stock injectors, Mopar M1, Comp Cams 262hr, MP lifters, EQ Magnum heads 2.02/1.62 (no port work), MP computer, large exhaust manifolds dumping into 3" magnaflow cat, then to a 3" muffler that splits to 2 tailpipes. Is the stock TB choking her down? This has me stumped, and wanting to get a megasquirt II & wideband so I can tune it, obviously the Mopar box can't cut it...
|
|
|
Re: 5.9 magnum hates mods?
[Re: Ultanium]
#809934
11/08/10 08:37 PM
11/08/10 08:37 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 377 Michigan Troll
blk00rt
enthusiast
|
enthusiast
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 377
Michigan Troll
|
have you pulled the distributor? If so who set your fuel sync and what is it set at? It could be your fuel sync is so far off that it is running rich. Just a thought. Mine is set around 0 to +1, the computers will run as long as its set anywheres from -10 to 10.
Rob Dunn 1976 Dart Sport 360 2000 dakota RT 408 with 150 nitrous 2013 Dodge Ram 1500 Hemi 2009 Jeep Patriot
|
|
|
Re: 5.9 magnum hates mods?
[Re: Ultanium]
#809937
11/08/10 10:12 PM
11/08/10 10:12 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 377 Michigan Troll
blk00rt
enthusiast
|
enthusiast
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 377
Michigan Troll
|
the fuel sync tells the injectors when to fire. The dealer ship needs a DRB to be able to set the fuel sync. It literally takes about 5 minutes to set. There is one snap on unit that can do it too but I do not remember the number for it.
Rob Dunn 1976 Dart Sport 360 2000 dakota RT 408 with 150 nitrous 2013 Dodge Ram 1500 Hemi 2009 Jeep Patriot
|
|
|
Re: 5.9 magnum hates mods?
[Re: blk00rt]
#809938
11/09/10 12:22 AM
11/09/10 12:22 AM
|
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 6,033 Salem
Grizzly
Moparts Proctologist
|
Moparts Proctologist
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 6,033
Salem
|
I think that wild cam is causing all the problems. Your dyno numbers are really low, it's almost as though this thing has no compression. Perhaps the cam is bleeding what little compression (8.9:1) the 360 has out of it? There is a Mopar cam that is supposed to match the PCM you have, that may be another route worth looking at. Not sure if you have come across this yet, but there is a re-flash available from Chrysler that will raise the shift rpm and make the truck feel a bit more responsive. I had it done to my '01 360 but it has the stock PCM. Just my opinion, but I would go to a 318 Magnum cam (hotter than the 360 cam) and go back to the stock PCM. If you have to stick with what you have, you could also go with a four-barrel.
Mo' Farts
Moderated by "tbagger".
|
|
|
Re: 5.9 magnum hates mods?
[Re: Ultanium]
#809939
11/09/10 02:24 AM
11/09/10 02:24 AM
|
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 101 Oregon
RoadRaceDart
member
|
member
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 101
Oregon
|
What is the measured intake centerline on the cam? What's the cranking compression? Which ECU are you using? That's way too rich and hurting power. Can you measure the vacuum at WOT to see if you've got an intake restriction? How about exhaust back pressure?
Joshua
|
|
|
Re: 5.9 magnum hates mods?
[Re: RoadRaceDart]
#809940
11/09/10 06:49 AM
11/09/10 06:49 AM
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Seriously, do yourself a favor. Go to a boneyard and pull a OBD2 pcm from a 96 Dakota V8 truck, pull the computer harness and OBD2 under dash port. Get it wired, its not that hard. Then, call Marty at KRC performance and have him build you a tune that you can download through a SCT tuner. You can run that cam with your combo, but I agree that it is probably to aggressive for that compression ratio, injector size and throttle body. A SCT tuner is dirt cheap right now and the parts cant run much more than $100.
|
|
|
Re: 5.9 magnum hates mods?
[Re: Devilbrad]
#809942
11/09/10 11:19 PM
11/09/10 11:19 PM
|
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 16 Bellville, Texas
Ultanium
OP
member
|
OP
member
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 16
Bellville, Texas
|
I got mad after the 5th dealership told me they couldn't set the sync, & bought a Snap On MT2500 scanner. Sync was off, +12 so I rolled it back to +6 per the recommendations of some Ram & Jeep guys. Other numbers from the scanner were: Idle 736rpm Map 2.1v Tps .82v Closed loop Vac 15.2v IAT 2.87v Coolant 2.0v O2s .1-.6v Adv +6deg Sync +6deg
The can is really tame, duration @ .050 is 206/210, 112deg Sep, 108 centerline. One interesting thing I found, is the scanner will not talk to the MP computer, only the stock computer. It does feel stronger now that the sync is rolled back, but still not what I expected from these mods.
|
|
|
Re: 5.9 magnum hates mods?
[Re: Devilbrad]
#809949
11/11/10 03:20 PM
11/11/10 03:20 PM
|
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 16 Bellville, Texas
Ultanium
OP
member
|
OP
member
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 16
Bellville, Texas
|
Cat & entire exhaust is new, all magnaflow. Used the comp cams double roller chain, used the 0deg marks, but will see if I can scrounge up a degree wheel. Heads were ready to run from Clearwater, had beehive springs, comp cams tech said spring pressures were close enough to recommended, so I torqued them down. I'll run a leakdown when I do the compression test, just to be sure. When I get the new TB, I figured I would be just under 300 to the wheels, this thing should be well over 250 now...
|
|
|
Re: 5.9 magnum hates mods?
[Re: Ultanium]
#809950
11/11/10 03:25 PM
11/11/10 03:25 PM
|
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,489 Pacifica, CA
Devilbrad
top fuel
|
top fuel
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,489
Pacifica, CA
|
Quote:
Cat & entire exhaust is new, all magnaflow. Used the comp cams double roller chain, used the 0deg marks, but will see if I can scrounge up a degree wheel. Heads were ready to run from Clearwater, had beehive springs, comp cams tech said spring pressures were close enough to recommended, so I torqued them down. I'll run a leakdown when I do the compression test, just to be sure. When I get the new TB, I figured I would be just under 300 to the wheels, this thing should be well over 250 now...
I had a Comp Cams timing set for Mag motors that was three teeth off on the cam gear when dots lined up. Mine wouldn't even run. I'll bet thats your problem, cam timing.
|
|
|
Re: 5.9 magnum hates mods?
[Re: Devilbrad]
#809951
11/11/10 04:23 PM
11/11/10 04:23 PM
|
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,489 Pacifica, CA
Devilbrad
top fuel
|
top fuel
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,489
Pacifica, CA
|
Here's a fairly easy and quick way of telling if the cam timing is off without pulling the front cover, using degree wheels, or a dial indicator. It works for me to at least tell me I'm close. IIRC the cam gear has 36 teeth, crank 18. 2:1 ration. Every tooth on the cam gear is 10 degrees of timing. Put the engine at TDC #1 intake (not compression) stroke. The balancer on Mag motors has 4 slots around it every 90 degrees. Get a tape measure or better a tapestry tape and measure from the #1 mark to the next mark counter clockwise. Cut the measurement in 1/4's and mark the balancer. Each mark is 22.5 degrees. Get your cam card, see when intake opening starts. Pull the #1 intake rocker and as you turn the crank slowly clockwise, watch the pushrod. As soon as it moves stop and see where the balancer lines up on the timing cover. The cover has ten degrees of timing marks, so you should be able to figure out if the cam is any wheres near close to opening like the card says. This worked for me when I found my timing set off 3 teeth. I did the math, figured out how many teeth to turn the cam gear and the engine fired right up. It's not accurate to a single degree, but if your off one tooth, it will tell you.
|
|
|
|
|