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Still have cranking problem-help needed! #809730
09/20/10 09:58 PM
09/20/10 09:58 PM
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,036
Mooresburg, Tn
'
'72CudaRacer Offline OP
top fuel
'72CudaRacer  Offline OP
top fuel
'

Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,036
Mooresburg, Tn
Made it to the track Sunday, thought I had the cranking problem fixed, but noooooo! Need help here guys.
Back ground: Same set up for YEARS, never had a cranking problem but twice. once a battery failed "open", second, a new Optima failed (still made 11 passes, no charging between rounds)
Set up; 2 batteries, in trunk, no alt, old Chrysler starter, key switch on colum, 440 10:1 comp, points style distrib triggering a MSD 7al2, electic fan and water pump.
What changed; This winter built new +.030 440, 13.5+ comp, alum heads, everything else the same, still, never a problem, even ran 18 passes in 10 hours in july at Bristol (two classes, one 1/4 mile, one 1/8 mile)
What else has changed; At the end of july, I pulled the engine back out and added a Milodon gear drive, a MSD crank trigger, locked out the dist, set rotor phasing, changed from a mallory coil to a MSD pro power coil, set timing at 36*, and ran several weeks with no problems. Then at the Mopar show in Bristol 3 weeks ago, I ran 5 passes fri, 9 passes sat (2 classes, 1/4 & 1/8) still no problem. Then sunday morning roll car out of trailer, charged batteries overnite with a "smart" charger. Start car to warm up and it kicked starter back. Changed starter (then find out that chrysler has differnt lenght old style starters, long one won't fit with my headers) Put a borrowed chry mini starter on, zinged it over no prob, for about 2 rounds, then acted like a weak battery. I come home check batteries, they are not really low, charge them fully and load test, good results.
What changed this week; I replaced all cables from battery to starter, added ground from batt to starter, replaced starter/ign switch to a push button starter/toggle ign switch, all wiring from batt to switches to starter, bypassed master shut off.
Results; car started nice for about 4 passes, then starts draging to the point of the starter "stopping" when I flipped the ign on. turn ign off, starts spinning the engine over again until I flip ign back on. I had to boost it off in the staging lanes 3 times sunday. when I'm out of competition, I let it set for about 1 hour, remove one Optima, car cranks up.
Questions; Could this starter be getting hot and causing this? how can this be tested? What am I missing?
Sorry this turned out so loooong, but I do not want to show up again with starting problems, so any help will be appreciated.

Thanks in advance guys.

Brian Dunnigan

Re: Still have cranking problem-help needed! [Re: '72CudaRacer] #809731
09/20/10 11:20 PM
09/20/10 11:20 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
Master
MR_P_BODY  Offline
Master

Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
Does it crank ok when cool... might try making a heat
shield for it if the headers are close

Re: Still have cranking problem-help needed! [Re: MR_P_BODY] #809732
09/20/10 11:41 PM
09/20/10 11:41 PM
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,036
Mooresburg, Tn
'
'72CudaRacer Offline OP
top fuel
'72CudaRacer  Offline OP
top fuel
'

Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,036
Mooresburg, Tn
It seems to crank ok when cool. this is a mini starter in the same header "hole" that a full size starter came out of. Hooker super comp 2" in a E body. I'm sure I can put a shield in there.

Re: Still have cranking problem-help needed! [Re: '72CudaRacer] #809733
09/21/10 02:46 AM
09/21/10 02:46 AM
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,825
Sk. Canada
RemCharger Offline
master
RemCharger  Offline
master

Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,825
Sk. Canada
Time for a start retard?...

Re: Still have cranking problem-help needed! [Re: RemCharger] #809734
09/21/10 09:58 AM
09/21/10 09:58 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 21,050
Niles , Ohio
T
therocks Offline
oh wait.but hey.lets see.oh yeah.
therocks  Offline
oh wait.but hey.lets see.oh yeah.
T

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 21,050
Niles , Ohio
Test the Optimas.My kid had 2 and both were junk.One only lasted 4 months.My 440 with 12.5 compression and the mini sitting right on the headers starts like a /6.It is street driven and even in the 90s it still spins quick.Rocky


Chrysler Firepower
Re: Still have cranking problem-help needed! [Re: '72CudaRacer] #809735
09/21/10 10:07 AM
09/21/10 10:07 AM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
Master
MR_P_BODY  Offline
Master

Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
Quote:

It seems to crank ok when cool. this is a mini starter in the same header "hole" that a full size starter came out of. Hooker super comp 2" in a E body. I'm sure I can put a shield in there.




Since you have the timing locked out try pulling 4*
out of the timing and see if that helps or corrects
the issue

Re: Still have cranking problem-help needed! [Re: MR_P_BODY] #809736
09/21/10 11:02 AM
09/21/10 11:02 AM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,300
Northern Indiana
Dunnuck Racing Offline
master
Dunnuck Racing  Offline
master

Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,300
Northern Indiana
Check your battery cut off switch.After a lot of on/off cycles,the contacts can build up resistance from arcing every time the switch is moved.I have seen it make a huge difference.Also make sure it is a high amp rated model,there are some cheap ones that won't carry a load.
Keith

Re: Still have cranking problem-help needed! [Re: '72CudaRacer] #809737
09/21/10 11:51 AM
09/21/10 11:51 AM
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,328
St. Louis, MO
mopardamo Offline
pro stock
mopardamo  Offline
pro stock

Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,328
St. Louis, MO
Hello '72CudaRacer,

Is the pushbutton starter connected to a relay?

Damon

Re: Still have cranking problem-help needed! [Re: MR_P_BODY] #809738
09/21/10 04:19 PM
09/21/10 04:19 PM
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,036
Mooresburg, Tn
'
'72CudaRacer Offline OP
top fuel
'72CudaRacer  Offline OP
top fuel
'

Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,036
Mooresburg, Tn





Since you have the timing locked out try pulling 4*
out of the timing and see if that helps or corrects
the issue




Good Idea Mike. Only problem is it starts fine stone cold and preety good cooled down. after about 3 passes in quick sucsession does ti have a problem. How can I duplicate that at home?
Brian

Re: Still have cranking problem-help needed! [Re: therocks] #809739
09/21/10 04:22 PM
09/21/10 04:22 PM
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,036
Mooresburg, Tn
'
'72CudaRacer Offline OP
top fuel
'72CudaRacer  Offline OP
top fuel
'

Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,036
Mooresburg, Tn
Quote:

Test the Optimas.My kid had 2 and both were junk.One only lasted 4 months.My 440 with 12.5 compression and the mini sitting right on the headers starts like a /6.It is street driven and even in the 90s it still spins quick.Rocky




I did load test them. They checked out fine. Unless you test an Optima differntly than a wet cell battery.
Brian

Re: Still have cranking problem-help needed! [Re: RemCharger] #809740
09/21/10 04:24 PM
09/21/10 04:24 PM
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,036
Mooresburg, Tn
'
'72CudaRacer Offline OP
top fuel
'72CudaRacer  Offline OP
top fuel
'

Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,036
Mooresburg, Tn
Quote:

Time for a start retard?...



Not a bad idea, but a lot of folks on here say they don't work all the time? Anybody have good results with them?

Brian

Re: Still have cranking problem-help needed! [Re: Dunnuck Racing] #809741
09/21/10 04:28 PM
09/21/10 04:28 PM
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,036
Mooresburg, Tn
'
'72CudaRacer Offline OP
top fuel
'72CudaRacer  Offline OP
top fuel
'

Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,036
Mooresburg, Tn
Quote:

Check your battery cut off switch.After a lot of on/off cycles,the contacts can build up resistance from arcing every time the switch is moved.I have seen it make a huge difference.Also make sure it is a high amp rated model,there are some cheap ones that won't carry a load.
Keith




Keith, that was mentioned to me last week and I had not thought of it. I purposely didn't do anything to it until it wouldn't start in the staging lanes and then I put all the cables on one post, still no start. Basicly by passed it.

Brian

Re: Still have cranking problem-help needed! [Re: mopardamo] #809742
09/21/10 04:35 PM
09/21/10 04:35 PM
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,036
Mooresburg, Tn
'
'72CudaRacer Offline OP
top fuel
'72CudaRacer  Offline OP
top fuel
'

Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,036
Mooresburg, Tn
Quote:

Hello '72CudaRacer,

Is the pushbutton starter connected to a relay?

Damon



Damon, the wiring to the push button is all new, and is on a circuit by itself. 10 ga wire from battery to 30 amp cb, 14 ga wire to push button, to factory style (new) starter relay. from the relay a 10ga wire to the starter. When it has its problem, I can turn the ign switch off and it wizzes the engine over good. flip the ign on and the starter all but stops turning over the engine.
As a matter of fact, when the engine is cold, I can turn on ign switch and the engine cranks and fires effortlessly.

Brian

Re: Still have cranking problem-help needed! [Re: '72CudaRacer] #809743
09/21/10 04:39 PM
09/21/10 04:39 PM
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,036
Mooresburg, Tn
'
'72CudaRacer Offline OP
top fuel
'72CudaRacer  Offline OP
top fuel
'

Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,036
Mooresburg, Tn
Guys, thanks for all the replys. Please keep them coming, someone might jar loose a thought process that we haven't thought of yet I'm at my witts end on this right now.
Thanks again, Brian

Re: Still have cranking problem-help needed! [Re: '72CudaRacer] #809744
09/21/10 05:05 PM
09/21/10 05:05 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 27
texas
yellowsubNSS Offline
member
yellowsubNSS  Offline
member

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 27
texas
sounds like you dont have quite enough starter for the amount of locked out timming your at. I had the same problem you describe. With my Summit brand high torque mini starter, i could cold start it fairly easy by just turning the motor over a few rotations before hitting the ignition switch. After the motor got heat soaked, it would fight me tooth and nail. Switched to a power master 4:1 reduction starter and it whirls like a dream even after multiple runs.


Texas Outsiders Nostalgia Super Stocks
Re: Still have cranking problem-help needed! [Re: yellowsubNSS] #809745
09/21/10 05:33 PM
09/21/10 05:33 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 350
Sidney,Ohio
C
challenger1320 Offline
enthusiast
challenger1320  Offline
enthusiast
C

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 350
Sidney,Ohio
16 volt battery = no starting trouble period.

Re: Still have cranking problem-help needed! [Re: '72CudaRacer] #809746
09/21/10 06:20 PM
09/21/10 06:20 PM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,494
Shelby mi.
J
JAKE68 Offline
pro stock
JAKE68  Offline
pro stock
J

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,494
Shelby mi.
What did you load test them @ and what where the resaults ? I have seen where one battery is bad and pulls the other down and they both loose there load capacity. I would doubt that it is a new starter and have the same problem. When the motor gets hot and the starter gets hot they will draw more amps. So the batteries must hold their capacity.


JAKES AUTOMOTIVE
Re: Still have cranking problem-help needed! [Re: JAKE68] #809747
09/21/10 07:50 PM
09/21/10 07:50 PM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,410
Belpre,Ohio
C
CHAPPER Offline
master
CHAPPER  Offline
master
C

Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,410
Belpre,Ohio
Very similar problem with my ride,,turned out my battery charger was not getting my batteries up as well as I thought it was. New charger=problem gone.


If you like drag racing, support your local track.
Re: Still have cranking problem-help needed! [Re: CHAPPER] #809748
09/21/10 10:59 PM
09/21/10 10:59 PM
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 417
reynoldsburg,ohio
poppaj Offline
mopar
poppaj  Offline
mopar

Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 417
reynoldsburg,ohio
I went threw the same problems. Full advance at the start makes the starter work much harder, I assume yo have an ignition cut-out switch so you can get it spinning before putting ignition to it. Also make sure you have the dist phased dead on number one. I have 14.5 comp so I used an MSD starter and switched to two 16v batteries and now it whips over.


AA/NSS 65'Coronet "Whompin Wedge"
Pop & Son Performance 557" B-1 power
John Holt Chassis
Re: Still have cranking problem-help needed! [Re: '72CudaRacer] #809749
09/22/10 12:30 AM
09/22/10 12:30 AM
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,502
SOUTH JERSEY
HEMIFRED Offline
master
HEMIFRED  Offline
master

Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,502
SOUTH JERSEY
Quote:

Quote:

Time for a start retard?...



Not a bad idea, but a lot of folks on here say they don't work all the time? Anybody have good results with them?

Brian




the trouble many of us had is ourn motors don't like to start with only 10 degrees of timing and will kick back sooner or later taking out starter drive and even over time the flywheel ring gear teeth. a simple toggle switch is more my style


home of the
Sox and Martin Hemi Duster


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