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Re: 514 on the dyno [Re: B1Fish540] #804192 09/20/10 01:50 PM 09/20/10 01:50 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 31,344 Oregon A AndyF OP I Win
AndyF OP I Win A Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 31,344 Oregon	Don't know what it makes, we tweaked the dyno before we had any full runs. Dyno is only designed to handle 650 ft-lbs of torque and we exceeded that pretty quickly. Based on how it was pulling it will probably make 850 hp. I haven't figured out what to do yet. Either pay to upgrade the dyno or detune the motor. Zippy - I think this block makes a bunch more power than the production block. I wanted to get a bunch of dyno pulls under my belt so I could get an answer on that question. This motor uses a lot of parts from my old 505 dyno mule so it is a fairly good comparison between the blocks.

Re: 514 on the dyno [Re: AndyF] #804193 09/20/10 02:20 PM 09/20/10 02:20 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 18,078 S.E. Michigan ZIPPY I Live Here
ZIPPY I Live Here Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 18,078 S.E. Michigan	Quote: Zippy - I think this block makes a bunch more power than the production block. I wanted to get a bunch of dyno pulls under my belt so I could get an answer on that question. This motor uses a lot of parts from my old 505 dyno mule so it is a fairly good comparison between the blocks. Good point...It really 'should' make more hp than the same parts on a stock block, but we don't always consider that. I know I wasn't thinking about it. If it's like the "average" blocks I've checked (only a couple), the thinnest areas in the cylinder should be about 3/4 of the way down from the top, and at 4.44 most would have .300-.350 thickness, which should mean nice power and a long life as long as there aren't any major catastrophes. I'm still trying to understand the lifter valley to cylinder area in that block better. When you soniced it, you might have noticed it's solid there (it's filled in because of hemi pushrod clearance machining) and no coolant can circulate, so it has to run hotter in that area but it doesn't seem to affect ring seal? Or maybe it does affect it but what little ring seal is lost, is made up for in brute strength? That is an area where maybe a wedge block could potentially be made "better" (in one respect) than hemi...coolant could be made to circulate there in a wedge since we don't need to gouge that area out for pushrods. Rich H. Esse Quam Videri

Re: 514 on the dyno [Re: ZIPPY] #804194 09/20/10 02:39 PM 09/20/10 02:39 PM
Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 8,185 Mt Morris Michigan mopar dave master
mopar dave master Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 8,185 Mt Morris Michigan	Andy, which of the EZ's did you use? just curious if there the max wedge port(Big EZ). valve sizes? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aIxaesJ190U http://youtu.be/lCZAaN7fFLg

Re: 514 on the dyno [Re: mopar dave] #804195 09/20/10 04:05 PM 09/20/10 04:05 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 31,344 Oregon A AndyF OP I Win
AndyF OP I Win A Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 31,344 Oregon	EZ heads were CNC ported by Jeff at Modern. Valve size is standard. Heads flow about 360 cfm on Dwayne's bench. They flow about 355 cfm on my bench. The heads are good but the trick is somewhere else. The power picked up a ton with the Jesel stuff and the dry sump.

Re: 514 on the dyno [Re: AndyF] #804196 09/20/10 04:16 PM 09/20/10 04:16 PM
Joined: Sep 2008 Posts: 2,840 Flint, Michigan B1Fish540 master
B1Fish540 master Joined: Sep 2008 Posts: 2,840 Flint, Michigan	Quote: Don't know what it makes, we tweaked the dyno before we had any full runs. Dyno is only designed to handle 650 ft-lbs of torque and we exceeded that pretty quickly. Based on how it was pulling it will probably make 850 hp. I haven't figured out what to do yet. Either pay to upgrade the dyno or detune the motor. Zippy - I think this block makes a bunch more power than the production block. I wanted to get a bunch of dyno pulls under my belt so I could get an answer on that question. This motor uses a lot of parts from my old 505 dyno mule so it is a fairly good comparison between the blocks. That happened to us when we dynoed the 540. My engine builder had just bought a new Stuska(sp?) dyno and he had it on too low of a setting(he'd been just testing SB chevys on it..hehe). He said he almost wrecked the dyno..lol

Re: 514 on the dyno [Re: AndyF] #804197 09/20/10 04:45 PM 09/20/10 04:45 PM
Joined: Dec 2005 Posts: 259 Scatchamatoon S Saskabusa enthusiast
Saskabusa enthusiast S Joined: Dec 2005 Posts: 259 Scatchamatoon	Quote: The heads are good but the trick is somewhere else. The power picked up a ton with the Jesel stuff and the dry sump. Could you post some pics and describe what you are using for a dry sump set up please. 1974 Roadrunner 1967 Charger

Re: 514 on the dyno [Re: Saskabusa] #804198 09/20/10 08:20 PM 09/20/10 08:20 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 31,344 Oregon A AndyF OP I Win
AndyF OP I Win A Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 31,344 Oregon	The dry sump stuff is pretty simple if you own a machine shop! Here is what my setup looked like on my 505 motor. I had to build most of the parts the first time around as nothing much was available for BBM engines. Now I've designed and produced a few parts so people can buy the block plate and stuff like that. 6207611-505.jpg (800 downloads)

Re: 514 on the dyno [Re: AndyF] #804199 09/20/10 08:22 PM 09/20/10 08:22 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 31,344 Oregon A AndyF OP I Win
AndyF OP I Win A Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 31,344 Oregon	I used a wet sump pan with a swinging pickup on the 505 motor and it seemed to work just fine. For the 514 motor I switched over to a regular dry sump pan that I got from Best Machine. This is a mockup picture and the drive system wasn't in place at the time. 6207616-4stage.jpg (659 downloads)

Re: 514 on the dyno [Re: AndyF] #804200 09/20/10 08:25 PM 09/20/10 08:25 PM
Joined: Jun 2009 Posts: 90 Canada M moparmat member
moparmat member M Joined: Jun 2009 Posts: 90 Canada	Andy, how much Hp does that dry sump pump consume while running? Do you know the difference based on specific oil? Thanks!

Re: 514 on the dyno [Re: moparmat] #804201 09/20/10 09:00 PM 09/20/10 09:00 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 31,344 Oregon A AndyF OP I Win
AndyF OP I Win A Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 31,344 Oregon	A little hand drill spins it just fine so it must not consume too much horsepower.

Re: 514 on the dyno [Re: AndyF] #804202 09/21/10 01:01 PM 09/21/10 01:01 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 9,954 Weddington, N.C. Streetwize master
Streetwize master Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 9,954 Weddington, N.C.	Great info Andy! I guess all those parasiting drag items like the Dizz and Timing chain really come in to play....amazing HP considering the EZ exhaust ports are really (relatively) marginal when you consider the (theoretical) HP advantage of the better exhaust and the relatively same intake port in a -1 or SR Head. Speaking of intakes, why don't you slap on the old 337 and see where the HP demon really lives with that piece. Last edited by Streetwize; 09/21/10 01:13 PM. WIZE World's Quickest Diahatsu Rocky (??) 414" Stroker Small block Mopar Powered. 10.84 @ 123...and gettin' quicker! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mWzLma3YGI In Car: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PjXcf95e6v0

Re: 514 on the dyno [Re: Streetwize] #804203 09/21/10 02:01 PM 09/21/10 02:01 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 31,344 Oregon A AndyF OP I Win
AndyF OP I Win A Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 31,344 Oregon	Well I sold the 337 intake to a guy who just had to have it for his motor so I can't try it. But, I do have a B1 intake with adapters that I'm going to try and I have a Super Victor. So once we fix the dyno we'll get some more testing underway. Looks like we might need to upgrade the dyno to keep testing this motor. I think that the combination of the dry sump, the belt drive distributor and the camshaft belt drive all work together to make power. I'm not sure if it is windage drag from the oil pan, or harmonics from the valve train, or ignition curve stability. Maybe a combination of all of the above. But I can tell you that when I put these parts on a shortblock that the motor picks up power. Same thing with the Jesel rocker arms. Those parts just flat out work. Might be the better geometry or reduced friction or more stability during the pulls? I don't have access to a Spintron so I'm not sure exactly what is going on but you can hear the motor pick up power with the better valve train parts. Which I guess isn't really a surprise since the big power guys have been using these parts for years.

Re: 514 on the dyno [Re: AndyF] #804204 09/21/10 02:24 PM 09/21/10 02:24 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 9,954 Weddington, N.C. Streetwize master
Streetwize master Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 9,954 Weddington, N.C.	I can send you mine WIZE World's Quickest Diahatsu Rocky (??) 414" Stroker Small block Mopar Powered. 10.84 @ 123...and gettin' quicker! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mWzLma3YGI In Car: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PjXcf95e6v0

Re: 514 on the dyno [Re: AndyF] #804205 09/21/10 06:13 PM 09/21/10 06:13 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 970 Farmington Hills, Mich Chuck@Best_Machine super stock
Chuck@Best_Machine super stock Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 970 Farmington Hills, Mich	Quote: I'm running a dry sump on this motor. I really like the dry sump setup. It is so much easier to dial in a dry sump and the engine oiling is a lot better. Hate to go back to a wet sump design after working with a dry sump. Andy, why are you running breathers ? www.BestMachineRacing.com https://www.facebook.com/pages/Best-Machine-Racing-Engines/135175363204822 (248)987-6038

Re: 514 on the dyno [Re: Chuck@Best_Machine] #804206 09/21/10 06:48 PM 09/21/10 06:48 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 31,344 Oregon A AndyF OP I Win
AndyF OP I Win A Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 31,344 Oregon	Hi Chuck, it is just a little 3 stage pump and it isn't drawing a lot of vacuum so I left the breathers on there. The valve covers have AN fittings so I can cap them off and then just use the breather on the dry sump tank.

Re: 514 on the dyno [Re: AndyF] #804207 09/22/10 07:00 PM 09/22/10 07:00 PM
Joined: Dec 2005 Posts: 259 Scatchamatoon S Saskabusa enthusiast
Saskabusa enthusiast S Joined: Dec 2005 Posts: 259 Scatchamatoon	I checked out Manini and saw your adapter plate on there. I know very little about dry sumps and I am wondering how the pump mounts to the plate? Is your plate good for any pump or a specific brand? I am having a hard time visualizing the the pump to plate bracket. 1974 Roadrunner 1967 Charger

Re: 514 on the dyno [Re: Saskabusa] #804208 09/22/10 08:03 PM 09/22/10 08:03 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 31,344 Oregon A AndyF OP I Win
AndyF OP I Win A Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 31,344 Oregon	I put a couple of drilled and tapped holes on my block plate so a person could fabricate a mounting bracket. That approach may or may not work with your pump. There are a lot of pumps out there and they use different mounting methods. Here is what my mounting bracket looks like from the front. This is a simple and effective design to copy if your pump looks like this. 6211691-charlieF.jpg (490 downloads)

Re: 514 on the dyno [Re: AndyF] #804209 02/08/11 04:37 PM 02/08/11 04:37 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 31,344 Oregon A AndyF OP I Win
AndyF OP I Win A Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 31,344 Oregon	Well it took a long time but we're ready to start running the 514 again. We had to install a new water pump for the dyno which cost a bunch of money, and then a bunch of the plumbing for the dyno cell had to be redone to handle the additional water flow. We also had to replace the existing load cell on the dyno and upgrade some sensors. So it took several months to fit all that work in around all of the other activity that was going on. But now the new dyno cell is back up and running. The new load cell has been calibrated and has had a few runs on it. So I'll be able to start getting some new numbers for this 514 this week.

Re: 514 on the dyno [Re: AndyF] #804210 02/08/11 04:57 PM 02/08/11 04:57 PM
Joined: May 2006 Posts: 1,080 oregon G greendart408 super stock
greendart408 super stock G Joined: May 2006 Posts: 1,080 oregon	This is good news. How much hp and torque is the new dyno stuff good for?? I forgot to ask Paul when I talked to him last..

Re: 514 on the dyno [Re: greendart408] #804211 02/08/11 07:19 PM 02/08/11 07:19 PM
Joined: Sep 2003 Posts: 2,008 Sweet Home Alabama M MRMOPAR622 top fuel
MRMOPAR622 top fuel M Joined: Sep 2003 Posts: 2,008 Sweet Home Alabama	Andy,with the big bore block wouldn't the 572-13 heads be a better choice? Only a question. "To Be The Man'You Have Got To Beat The Man" "T/D and Pro-Bracket Racer"

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