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Re: a500 or 200r4 in a Dart
[Re: wireweld]
#801654
09/14/10 10:11 PM
09/14/10 10:11 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,062
Amherst,NY
challengermike
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,062
Amherst,NY
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First off to use a 2004r or a 700r4 would need an bell housing adapter,different crossmember,different driveshaft,redo the cooling lines(as the fittings are different,some way to hook up the tv cable,and find an adapter for the speedo.And after you figure all that out the 2004r or the 700r4 isnt very strong at all.At least with a a500 it would bolt up to the block,use the same cooler lines.I could see if somebody wanted to setup to a glide or a 400 for strength but for od i dont think its worth it.
Last edited by challengermike; 09/14/10 10:12 PM.
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Re: a500 or 200r4 in a Dart
[Re: wireweld]
#801656
09/15/10 01:04 AM
09/15/10 01:04 AM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,424
Kalispell Mt.
HotRodDave
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,424
Kalispell Mt.
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I like the a-500 just to keep it all mopar and I can build them to last just fine. The factory 904 727 linkage bolts up prefectly the cooler lines are just right, you just have to shorten the driveshaft fab a new cross member, flatten out the torsion bar support (hammer or cut it out and add a new flattened out one and use a 727 slip yolk.
As for the 2004r lasting with that much power pretty much every piece has to be aftermarket, that trans is super flimsy in stock form. The 700R4 has more low dollar potential but not much more than the A-500.
I think the chevy trans is more work to put in for little to no gain.
I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!
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Re: a500 or 200r4 in a Dart
[Re: wireweld]
#801658
09/15/10 09:31 AM
09/15/10 09:31 AM
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,889
up yours
Supercuda
About to go away
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About to go away
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,889
up yours
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The 200r4 isn't a bad trans and is actually easier to beef up (and cheaper) than the 700r4.
Sounds to me like your car isn't close to stock anyway and to be honest MoPar's OD auto's are weak so I would consider this, it's cost as much or more to beef them up to a decent level, probably more, than the 20r4. the cross member and driveshaft issue is a non-starter since you'd need to do that for any of the listed choices anyway.
Funny thing is, this board will praise Keisler to high heavens and ALL of his swap setups are not MoPar trans based at all. I say go for it, might be a cheap conversion for the rest of us to consider, let us know how it goes.
They say there are no such thing as a stupid question.
They say there is always the exception that proves the rule.
Don't be the exception.
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Re: a500 or 200r4 in a Dart
[Re: Supercuda]
#801659
09/15/10 12:10 PM
09/15/10 12:10 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,616
Kissimmee Fl.
dusturbd340W5
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,616
Kissimmee Fl.
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nod't need much to make a 2004r or a 700r4 live if you are familar with them and know what needs to be done the 2004r is what came behind the turbo v6's in a GN and they hold up preety well with just a little work but the a500 would be the easiest th install.
70 duster full chassis super pro 416 CNC Indybrock heads 727 w/brake
best so far 1.212 60 6.219 in 1/8 at 110.88 9.768 at 137.81 1/4
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Re: a500 or 200r4 in a Dart
[Re: Supercuda]
#801660
09/15/10 12:35 PM
09/15/10 12:35 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,071
Irving, TX
feets
Senior Management
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Senior Management
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,071
Irving, TX
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I have no idea where the guys get the BS saying the Mopar ODs are weak. My a518 has held up behind my Cummins for 273,000 miles. I tweaked the pump for more than 600 rwtq at 150,000 miles. This thing has been drag raced, jumped, off roaded, done donuts, hauled really heavy loads, and pulled cars through more than 20 states.
In short, I beat the crap out of this truck and the transmission has never let me down. I TOW IN OVERDRIVE.
The later trucks lost overdrive because of converter clutch failure. When the clutches fail the debris goes through the transmission. The overdrive compounder collects the trash and fails first. The OD isn't to blame. It's the converter.
Put an a500 in the car and hit the road. It'll do everything you need.
We are brothers and sisters doing time on the planet for better or worse. I'll take the better, if you don't mind.
- Stu Harmon
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Re: a500 or 200r4 in a Dart
[Re: wireweld]
#801661
09/15/10 01:24 PM
09/15/10 01:24 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,452
Michigan
MarkZ
Worthy
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Worthy
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,452
Michigan
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If you do go with the 500, don't use the stock lines even though they'll fit. They're probably 5/16" lines. The OD transmissions came with 3/8" lines from the factory if I recall right.
1987 Fifth Avenue - 512/518/D60
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Re: a500 or 200r4 in a Dart
[Re: feets]
#801662
09/15/10 01:34 PM
09/15/10 01:34 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,424
Kalispell Mt.
HotRodDave
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,424
Kalispell Mt.
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Quote:
I have no idea where the guys get the BS saying the Mopar ODs are weak. My a518 has held up behind my Cummins for 273,000 miles. I tweaked the pump for more than 600 rwtq at 150,000 miles. This thing has been drag raced, jumped, off roaded, done donuts, hauled really heavy loads, and pulled cars through more than 20 states.
In short, I beat the crap out of this truck and the transmission has never let me down. I TOW IN OVERDRIVE.
The later trucks lost overdrive because of converter clutch failure. When the clutches fail the debris goes through the transmission. The overdrive compounder collects the trash and fails first. The OD isn't to blame. It's the converter.
Put an a500 in the car and hit the road. It'll do everything you need.
The converter clutch fails because of the junk fluid that is desighned to shift smoother (in english that means "slip the clutches more").
I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!
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Re: a500 or 200r4 in a Dart
[Re: MarkZ]
#801663
09/15/10 01:48 PM
09/15/10 01:48 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,123
Grand Haven, MI
patrick
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,123
Grand Haven, MI
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Quote:
If you do go with the 500, don't use the stock lines even though they'll fit. They're probably 5/16" lines. The OD transmissions came with 3/8" lines from the factory if I recall right.
AFAIK 200R4 has a better reputation for durability than the 700R4 (as others said, the buick GN's used the 200R4)
one advantage to the GM trannies is the OD isn't in the tail section (IIRC it's behind the front pump), so there's probably less body mods to get it to fit. one thing that might be difficult is I thought GM's mount the starter to the engine, so the adapter would have to have the starter mount provisions somewhere....
yup, OD's have 3/8" line
if you go with an A500 (42/44RH), especially if you have a heavy car with a lot of torque I'd think about upgrading the front pump & torque converter to ~96 or newer, as the pump drive uses 2 flats on the hub vs. lugs that engage slots in the hub. my MP166k converter lasted 24000 miles before I found a crack in the converter hub at the base of one of the slots in my mild 360 equipped 5th ave.
1976 Spinnaker White Plymouth Duster, /6 A833OD
1986 Silver/Twilight Blue Chrysler 5th Ave HotRod **SOLD!***
2011 Toxic Orange Dodge Charger R/T
2017 Grand Cherokee Overland
2014 Jeep Cherokee Latitude (holy crap, my daughter is driving)
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Re: a500 or 200r4 in a Dart
[Re: wireweld]
#801665
09/15/10 03:54 PM
09/15/10 03:54 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,071
Irving, TX
feets
Senior Management
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Senior Management
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,071
Irving, TX
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The T-bar crossmember adds strength to the chassis as well as mounting the bars. You may want to keep that in mind.
We are brothers and sisters doing time on the planet for better or worse. I'll take the better, if you don't mind.
- Stu Harmon
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Re: a500 or 200r4 in a Dart
[Re: wireweld]
#801666
09/15/10 04:10 PM
09/15/10 04:10 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 26,008
Rio Linda, CA
John_Kunkel
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 26,008
Rio Linda, CA
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The 200R has a lot going for it, besides its compact size it only needs a single wire hooked to it.
All of the issues like cooler lines, driveshaft, etc. are there with any transmission swap.
The INTERNET, the MISinformation superhighway
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Re: a500 or 200r4 in a Dart
[Re: John_Kunkel]
#801667
09/15/10 05:14 PM
09/15/10 05:14 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,071
Irving, TX
feets
Senior Management
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Senior Management
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,071
Irving, TX
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A single wire? Really? WOW! My 518 takes TWO wires. 
We are brothers and sisters doing time on the planet for better or worse. I'll take the better, if you don't mind.
- Stu Harmon
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Re: a500 or 200r4 in a Dart
[Re: feets]
#801668
09/15/10 06:54 PM
09/15/10 06:54 PM
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,889
up yours
Supercuda
About to go away
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About to go away
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,889
up yours
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Quote:
I have no idea where the guys get the BS saying the Mopar ODs are weak. My a518 has held up behind my Cummins for 273,000 miles. I tweaked the pump for more than 600 rwtq at 150,000 miles. This thing has been drag raced, jumped, off roaded, done donuts, hauled really heavy loads, and pulled cars through more than 20 states.
In short, I beat the crap out of this truck and the transmission has never let me down. I TOW IN OVERDRIVE.
The later trucks lost overdrive because of converter clutch failure. When the clutches fail the debris goes through the transmission. The overdrive compounder collects the trash and fails first. The OD isn't to blame. It's the converter.
Put an a500 in the car and hit the road. It'll do everything you need.
It isn't the OD part that is necessarily "weak" it's the whole trans. Your diesel A518 version is substantially beefed over an A500 and you cannot bolt it to a V8. You cannot even put the diesel guts into an A500 to beef it up. You could use an ultrabell to put a diesel A518 behind a V8, but it costs money and fitment is a pita in an A body.
Can it be done? Yes, is it cheap? No, is it cheaper than a 200r4 swap? Dunno, but a 200r4 requires less body mods to fit an A body.
They say there are no such thing as a stupid question.
They say there is always the exception that proves the rule.
Don't be the exception.
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Re: a500 or 200r4 in a Dart
[Re: Supercuda]
#801669
09/15/10 07:32 PM
09/15/10 07:32 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,424
Kalispell Mt.
HotRodDave
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,424
Kalispell Mt.
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the 200r4 will require the same mods to the body as the a-500.
If he is building a 1000 hp motor then he should be talking about an a-518 instead and in that case the same body mods are required and the SB 518 can have the diesel guts put in, also just about any 727 parts will fit the 518 also. If he is just building a 500-600 hp motor then the a-500 can be built to last for no more dollars than the 200r4.
The reason the stock a-500 don't last is because they tried to make it shift too soft, no trans will hold up to that abuse.
I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!
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Re: a500 or 200r4 in a Dart
[Re: HotRodDave]
#801671
09/15/10 08:07 PM
09/15/10 08:07 PM
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,889
up yours
Supercuda
About to go away
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About to go away
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,889
up yours
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Quote:
the 200r4 will require the same mods to the body as the a-500.
I don't think so, Tim.
http://www.tciauto.com/Products/TechInfo/trans_dims.asp
As for price, again, I don't think so, Tim.
Summit racing, TCI Street fighter trans, 200R4 vs A518 (A500 not an option), 450 hp level. 200R4 is about $600 cheaper.
Facts, they bite you when you wish they wouldn't.
They say there are no such thing as a stupid question.
They say there is always the exception that proves the rule.
Don't be the exception.
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