Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Anyone use TIG for bodywork #7697
12/12/03 07:35 AM
12/12/03 07:35 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,480
USA
M
Molloy Offline OP
master
Molloy  Offline OP
master
M

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,480
USA
Anyone TIG sheetmetal (bodywork) without inducing warpage? I sure as heck can't do it....

Re: Anyone use TIG for bodywork [Re: Molloy] #7698
12/12/03 07:40 AM
12/12/03 07:40 AM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,968
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
Master
MR_P_BODY  Offline
Master

Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,968
Romeo MI
tig can put to much heat in the metal, mig is the
only way to do sheet metal, I have tried both
just to try it

Re: Anyone use TIG for bodywork [Re: MR_P_BODY] #7699
12/12/03 08:19 AM
12/12/03 08:19 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,480
USA
M
Molloy Offline OP
master
Molloy  Offline OP
master
M

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,480
USA
I agree completely. Trouble is, I don't have a MIG, I have a TIG machine.

Re: Anyone use TIG for bodywork [Re: Molloy] #7700
12/12/03 08:21 AM
12/12/03 08:21 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,076
Central Iowa
A
AdamMopar Offline
top fuel
AdamMopar  Offline
top fuel
A

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,076
Central Iowa
It can be done. I've also seen it warp the heck out of stuff too. If you do one little spot at a time and wait until it cools completely, and jump around you should be okay. You can get a MIG setup for about 400 dollars or so. Might be worth it. Adam


Good up and coming paint and body site. http://p2forum.proboards56.com/index.cgi?board=general
Re: Anyone use TIG for bodywork? [Re: AdamMopar] #7701
12/12/03 08:35 AM
12/12/03 08:35 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,480
USA
M
Molloy Offline OP
master
Molloy  Offline OP
master
M

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,480
USA
Quote:


If you do one little spot at a time and wait until it cools completely, and jump around you should be okay.
Adam




I do that. I think I'm running ~30amps, and after tacking everything, I do ~1/4" stitches. Then I cool the spot with compressed air or a wet rag (tried both). I also move around to opposite sides of the patch. Still warps, and it warps BAD. I'me beginning to think that the warping has more to do with the nature of the stresses in the bead than it does with the heating of the surrounding material. When I went to a 1/4" stitch (down from a 1/2" stitch), I noticed that I could pretty much touch any part of the patch with my bare hands, and if that ain't cool enough, I don't know what is.

I've noticed that I can do succesful TIG welds on small, heavily curved portions of sheetmetal, like doorjams, but any open, flat metal like a quarter panel... forget it. It's gonna be heavy bondo time...

Re: Anyone use TIG for bodywork? [Re: Molloy] #7702
12/12/03 10:39 AM
12/12/03 10:39 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 817
Upstate NY
70_440sixbbl_RR Offline
super gas
70_440sixbbl_RR  Offline
super gas

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 817
Upstate NY
Borrow, buy or rent a MIG. You are repeatedly hitting yourself in the foot with a hammer with all that warping. Heck, you would be better off using pop rivits.

Re: Anyone use TIG for bodywork [Re: Molloy] #7703
12/12/03 11:43 AM
12/12/03 11:43 AM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 499
SW Louisiana
lgjhn Offline
super gas
lgjhn  Offline
super gas

Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 499
SW Louisiana
Many moons ago, I tried it and miserable results.
TIG carries too much heat for light sheetmetal IMHO. It works great on some of the heavier sheetmetal etc. say around the framerails, door posts etc, but for open panels I found it to be a disaster to say the least.
MIG is the only way to go on panels IMO. To do otherwise, it just making more work for yourself.


'73 Dart Sport 408 stroker, Auto, 3.55 Suregrip '72 Swinger 440, Auto, 3.55 Suregrip '72 Demon 340 4-speed, 3.55 Suregrip '67 Charger 440, Auto, 3.55 Suregrip '03 Ram 3500 CTD, Auto '11 Challenger SRT-8, 6-speed Manual '12 Ram 1500 Crew Cab, 4WD, Laramie
Re: Anyone use TIG for bodywork? [Re: 70_440sixbbl_RR] #7704
12/12/03 11:44 AM
12/12/03 11:44 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,480
USA
M
Molloy Offline OP
master
Molloy  Offline OP
master
M

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,480
USA
Quote:

Borrow, buy or rent a MIG.




Yeah, that's my gut feeling, I was just hoping that if someone has successfully done 19-20 gauge sheetmetal bodywork with TIG, it would tell me that it is at least possible...in theory.

I really don't feel like spending money on a MIG welder, because, for the most part, I think they weld like crap (no penetration, splatter, slop, toothpaste welds, etc), but in this case, that's is what you need! We have a 200A MIG at my work. In fact, I was the one that bought it, because I knew everyone could pick it up and run with it.

Re: Anyone use TIG for bodywork? [Re: Molloy] #7705
12/12/03 11:54 AM
12/12/03 11:54 AM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 499
SW Louisiana
lgjhn Offline
super gas
lgjhn  Offline
super gas

Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 499
SW Louisiana
Quote:

I think they weld like crap (no penetration, splatter, slop, toothpaste welds, etc




I was under that same opinion about MIG for a long time because all of my past experience was heavy construction pipe welding such as in a nuclear plant, but once I got the hang of it and finally got the heat/feed set up properly, I found it to weld pretty darn good for this light sheetmetal stuff.
I probably wouldn't try to do real heavy welds with it, but it certainly makes sheetmetal work a whole lot easier.


'73 Dart Sport 408 stroker, Auto, 3.55 Suregrip '72 Swinger 440, Auto, 3.55 Suregrip '72 Demon 340 4-speed, 3.55 Suregrip '67 Charger 440, Auto, 3.55 Suregrip '03 Ram 3500 CTD, Auto '11 Challenger SRT-8, 6-speed Manual '12 Ram 1500 Crew Cab, 4WD, Laramie
Re: Anyone use TIG for bodywork? [Re: Molloy] #7706
12/12/03 12:01 PM
12/12/03 12:01 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,336
central New Jersey
D
dbdartman Offline
master
dbdartman  Offline
master
D

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,336
central New Jersey
Quote:

I really don't feel like spending money on a MIG welder, because, for the most part, I think they weld like crap (no penetration, splatter, slop, toothpaste welds, etc), but in this case, that's is what you need! We have a 200A MIG at my work. In fact, I was the one that bought it, because I knew everyone could pick it up and run with it.




First, if your Mig welds are coming out that bad, there's something set wrong. Second, don't think you'll take that 200 amp machine (with it's .030" or .035" wire) & not warp the panels just as bad as with the Tig! .024" max, C-25 (25% co2) or straight argon. This is actually where I'd prefer a cheap 110V machine over a 220... Oh, & third, you need a really small tungsten diameter & there's still no guarentee it won't warp like crazy. (Have you tried running the high frequency continuously in DC? I found that it stablized the arc better than "straight" DC when doing REALLY low amp jobs.)

Re: Anyone use TIG for bodywork [Re: Molloy] #7707
12/12/03 12:51 PM
12/12/03 12:51 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 87
St Albert, AB, Canada
S
Scouttoo Offline
member
Scouttoo  Offline
member
S

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 87
St Albert, AB, Canada
I'm not sure if it is an option for you but why not use panel adhesive (a type of epoxy) to attach the panels? The seam is completely sealed from moisture when epoxy is used and most of all-no warpage!!! I used epoxy on all my panels and I will never weld a panel on again.

Re: Anyone use TIG for bodywork [Re: Scouttoo] #7708
12/12/03 12:55 PM
12/12/03 12:55 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,076
Central Iowa
A
AdamMopar Offline
top fuel
AdamMopar  Offline
top fuel
A

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,076
Central Iowa
Quote:

I'm not sure if it is an option for you but why not use panel adhesive (a type of epoxy) to attach the panels? The seam is completely sealed from moisture when epoxy is used and most of all-no warpage!!! I used epoxy on all my panels and I will never weld a panel on again.




I don't konw I woudl never use adhesive on a seam that will be seen. From what I have heard it's just about guranteed that eventually you will be able to see where teh seam is. Adam


Good up and coming paint and body site. http://p2forum.proboards56.com/index.cgi?board=general
Re: Anyone use TIG for bodywork [Re: Molloy] #7709
12/12/03 01:01 PM
12/12/03 01:01 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 556
Arkansas
G
GregGarner Offline
mopar
GregGarner  Offline
mopar
G

Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 556
Arkansas
I use TIG exclusively. I did a lot of research with many different sources, including different books and several different metal shapers. The consensus of all the research I did was that TIG was better than MIG if you were a good welder. TIG is harder to learn because you have to coordinate the action of the welding rod and the welder. The TIG was considered to be better because you can control how much metal and heat goes into the panel better than the MIG.

I personally started out with a MIG, and switched over to a TIG. I found that the MIG usually put too much metal in, and sometimes would not fully melt the metal. I switched over to the TIG and had to redo some of the stuff I did with MIG.

I recommend TIG.


GregGarner
www.rt-eng.com
Home of the mopar solid state limiter adn tach repair kit
Re: Anyone use TIG for bodywork [Re: GregGarner] #7710
12/12/03 01:36 PM
12/12/03 01:36 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 817
Upstate NY
70_440sixbbl_RR Offline
super gas
70_440sixbbl_RR  Offline
super gas

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 817
Upstate NY
Sounds like it's time to take a welding class.

Re: Anyone use TIG for bodywork [Re: 70_440sixbbl_RR] #7711
12/12/03 01:53 PM
12/12/03 01:53 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,968
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
Master
MR_P_BODY  Offline
Master

Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,968
Romeo MI
Quote:

Sounds like it's time to take a welding class.



Go buy a 110 mig welder and the bottle set-up
dont even try tiggin it, I am a cert. welder and
I wont waste my time tiggin sheet metal like on
a quarter, mig is a much faster process, stich
a little, a little there, cooling with a rag, you
will be done before you know it

Re: Anyone use TIG for bodywork? [Re: dbdartman] #7712
12/12/03 02:08 PM
12/12/03 02:08 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,480
USA
M
Molloy Offline OP
master
Molloy  Offline OP
master
M

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,480
USA
Quote:

Quote:

I really don't feel like spending money on a MIG welder, because, for the most part, I think they weld like crap (no penetration, splatter, slop, toothpaste welds, etc), but in this case, that's is what you need! We have a 200A MIG at my work. In fact, I was the one that bought it, because I knew everyone could pick it up and run with it.




First, if your Mig welds are coming out that bad, there's something set wrong. Second, don't think you'll take that 200 amp machine (with it's .030" or .035" wire) & not warp the panels just as bad as with the Tig! .024" max, C-25 (25% co2) or straight argon. This is actually where I'd prefer a cheap 110V machine over a 220... Oh, & third, you need a really small tungsten diameter & there's still no guarentee it won't warp like crazy. (Have you tried running the high frequency continuously in DC? I found that it stablized the arc better than "straight" DC when doing REALLY low amp jobs.)




We use the 200A machine at work for stuctural stuff, fixtures, maintenance, etc.

As for my colorful description of MIG weld beads, I guess I've seen sooo many bad mig welds, that I just assume all are like that. We do have a custom fabricator that we contract out work too, and there MIG welds look beautiful -- looks like a stack of dimes. Mine look like poo.

I'll look into other options like electode positive mode or AC.

Thanks for the responses.
Molloy

Re: Anyone use TIG for bodywork [Re: 70_440sixbbl_RR] #7713
12/12/03 02:12 PM
12/12/03 02:12 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,480
USA
M
Molloy Offline OP
master
Molloy  Offline OP
master
M

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,480
USA
Quote:

Sounds like it's time to take a welding class.




Took two semesters at the local JC before I bought my TIG. I cut my teeth on stick welding.

Just not used to doing thin COSMETIC stuff. Actually my beads are beautiful, the trouble is the resulting warping.

Re: Anyone use TIG for bodywork? [Re: Molloy] #7714
12/12/03 03:31 PM
12/12/03 03:31 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,692
Seattle WA
R
RichV Offline
top fuel
RichV  Offline
top fuel
R

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,692
Seattle WA





I do that. I think I'm running ~30amps, and after tacking everything, I do ~1/4" stitches.




Is 30 amps as low as you machine goes. Some of the better tig power sources can also be used with a spool gun or other stand alone wire feed with trigger. My Lincoln Econo Tig goes down to 12 amps, but can not be used as a power source for a mig gun.

Re: Anyone use TIG for bodywork [Re: GregGarner] #7715
12/12/03 06:19 PM
12/12/03 06:19 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,006
Yorktown VA
motorheadjohn Offline
Ridin' Shotgun
motorheadjohn  Offline
Ridin' Shotgun

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,006
Yorktown VA
I took Ron Covell's basic steel metalworking workshop at Roy Brizzio's stop in San Francisco. He covered all sorts of techniques for forming steel sheet, working out dents, etc. I would highly recommend this seminar for anyone interested in old cars.

Ron used gas and TIG for the welding in the class. One of the sample he did was to cut a 4x4" patch out of the center of a piece of sheet then reinstall it like a rust patch. He welded 1/2 of it with oxy-acetelene and the other half with TIG. His heat control was awesome with both methods, and there was much more heat signature on the gas bead but little warpage with either. He then proceded to metal work the whole thing smooth. The lesson? You can use either method for sheet metal. I still have the piece he did and can post pics of it if you want to see them.

Ron said TIG is his method of choice and doesn't use MIG much at all. Ron is a metal-working master of course, so he made it look easy, and he had top-notch TIG equipment to work with at Brizzio's studio. Not for a beginner but definitely can be done....


Chicks in the mirror are fatter than they appear
Re: Anyone use TIG for bodywork [Re: motorheadjohn] #7716
12/12/03 06:54 PM
12/12/03 06:54 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,771
St.Clair Shores MI.
tilt Offline
top fuel
tilt  Offline
top fuel

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,771
St.Clair Shores MI.
I bought the 110V Lincoln HD3200 from Home Depot for $463 and i love it.Go with the 80lb argon bottle,it's way cheaper and less fill ups.
Jeff
Ps check the attached pic.

569334-new qtr.jpg (138 downloads)

68 CORONET R/T BEST MACHINE BUILT EFI'd TWIN TURBO(UP and RUNNING !!) 03 Mach1
Page 1 of 2 1 2






Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1