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Ray Barton 528 failure what to look for, what happened
#771265
08/11/10 11:59 AM
08/11/10 11:59 AM
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 75
Illinois
ChrisDavis
OP
member
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OP
member
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 75
Illinois
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It is not under the best of circumstances that I write this post. In 2007 I had Ray Barton build me a 528 for my ‘Cuda. To date it has 611 miles on it and no racing. I have changed the oil each year at about 200 mile increments. Recently it appears that I have a case of bearing failure. About the engine: It is the usual Ray Barton recipe of 528 cubes on a Mopar brand cast iron block, solid flat tappet cam (280*, 667”), Nascar lifters, Ray Barton rocker arms, aluminum heads, dual quad single plane, etc. It dyno’ed at 702 HP at near 7K RPM. I have it rev limited at 7K RPM as well. Here are my issues: Suddenly I lost oil pressure. It would always run about 60 Lbs. and now it is more like 20 Lbs. At about the same time it lost a couple hundred RPM off it’s idle. When I drained the oil it was black and looked like it had way more than 200 miles on it. Former oil changes where clean. There were some fine metal particles on the magnetic oil plug. When I cut the filter open I found a lot of gold colored metal in the pleats. This weekend I will be pulling the pan and bearing caps to see what might have failed. Does anyone have any suggestions what I should look for besides the obvious bearing damage? Does anyone have any ideas what might have happened and why this failure took place? Does anyone else have experience with Ray Barton engines and their quirks? 
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Re: Ray Barton 528 failure what to look for, what happened
[Re: ademon]
#771270
08/11/10 12:35 PM
08/11/10 12:35 PM
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Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 12,481
Chino Valley
RodStRace
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 12,481
Chino Valley
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Do you have a teenage son?  Sorry to hear your engine is not well. I'd be very tempted to pull it rather than just pull the pan and check bearings. A clean engine is a happy engine and all that stuff is inside. I would pull the dist. and check the gear. Brass shavings.....
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Re: Ray Barton 528 failure what to look for, what happened
[Re: RodStRace]
#771271
08/11/10 12:43 PM
08/11/10 12:43 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,826
NY usa
540challenger
master
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master
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,826
NY usa
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Quote:
Do you have a teenage son?
Sorry to hear your engine is not well.
I'd be very tempted to pull it rather than just pull the pan and check bearings. A clean engine is a happy engine and all that stuff is inside.
I would pull the dist. and check the gear. Brass shavings.....
 Pull the dist. Check the gear. I have had a few customers that the gear would wear. In turn it changes the speed since now the timing is change and with a lower idle the oil psi will drop.  Sometimes does bronze gears last forever other times you almost want tpo change them every oil change. If it is the gear, in the future check the timing every so often when it starts to change the gear is wearing.
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Re: Ray Barton 528 failure what to look for, what happened
[Re: 540challenger]
#771272
08/11/10 12:45 PM
08/11/10 12:45 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,675
Columbia, CT
moper
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,675
Columbia, CT
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Can you post pictures of the wear surfaces and backs of the bearings? Rods and mains...
Well, art is art, isn't it? Still, on the other hand, water is water! And east is east and west is west and if you take cranberries and stew them like applesauce they taste much more like prunes than rhubarb does. Now, uh... Now you tell me what you know.
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Re: Ray Barton 528 failure what to look for, what happened
[Re: ChrisDavis]
#771278
08/11/10 05:11 PM
08/11/10 05:11 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,974
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,974
U.S.S.A.
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Quote:
I will post pictures after I pull the bearing caps and inspect the bearings.
This is a flat tappet cam and the distributor does not use a bronze sacrificial gear. The distributor gear is what comes stock on an MSD Pro Billet.
There is no distributor gear on a mopar dist, it's a seperate part.
Good luck with Ray, did you try calling Barton before dragging him thru the mud?
i had a good friend , RIP , that had barton build him 2 motors , first was a hemi , no issues that I knew of , second was a 500" RB for his drag car, he had to take that motor back at least twice for problems that were caused by bad assembly.
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Re: Ray Barton 528 failure what to look for, what happened
[Re: prochargedhemi]
#771281
08/11/10 05:30 PM
08/11/10 05:30 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,840
S.E. Michigan
ZIPPY
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,840
S.E. Michigan
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A buddy of mine recently had a K&N oil filter fail immediately after installation on a GM product. He changed the oil, pulled off an AC Delco filter, put on the KN, fired it up and no oil pressure. Tried multiple restarts, nothing. Put the old/used Delco back on, and had instant oil pressure. Not defending RB in any way, whatever it is, is what it is...but it might be a crappy oil filter 
Rich H.
Esse Quam Videri
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Re: Ray Barton 528 failure what to look for, what happened
[Re: ZIPPY]
#771282
08/11/10 05:54 PM
08/11/10 05:54 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 28,312
Cincinnati, Ohio
Challenger 1
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 28,312
Cincinnati, Ohio
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Quote:
A buddy of mine recently had a K&N oil filter fail immediately after installation on a GM product. He changed the oil, pulled off an AC Delco filter, put on the KN, fired it up and no oil pressure. Tried multiple restarts, nothing. Put the old/used Delco back on, and had instant oil pressure.
Not defending RB in any way, whatever it is, is what it is...but it might be a crappy oil filter
Sounds like the oil filter is working pretty good since it's full of bearing material.
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Re: Ray Barton 528 failure what to look for, what happened
[Re: ChrisDavis]
#771284
08/11/10 05:59 PM
08/11/10 05:59 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 28,312
Cincinnati, Ohio
Challenger 1
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 28,312
Cincinnati, Ohio
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Quote:
I have called Ray Barton. I don't recall saying anything bad about him in my posts. You must be referring to other peoples posts.
I had forgotten about the gear not being on the distributor. Too many years working on Chevy's. I would not expect that gear to be made of bronze since this is not a roller cam, but I could be wrong. If all that metal in the filter came from that gear then there can't be much gear left. There is an awful lot of metal in the filter.
Also there was no difference in oil pressure when I changed oil filters. K&N makes a very good filter, however I could see one plug up quicker than other brands since they trap smaller particles than other brands.
I agree with everything you said.  Sorry about your trouble.
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