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Re: Taking it to the next level? Wow! [Re: ECS] #76802
06/21/08 05:52 PM
06/21/08 05:52 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 8,828
Houston, Tx
hemi68charger Offline
master
hemi68charger  Offline
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Posts: 8,828
Houston, Tx
Quote:

Before this thread takes the usual turn with people suddenly knowing more (from a few pictures in bad lighting) than we did, let me make a couple of points. When you see an original car, you can't look at it's current condition and assume that is what it looked like when it was new. Over sprays fade and oxidation takes over from time and weather exposure. We could see where residues of color were still evident. Would anyone look at a 40 year old newspaper and say that the yellow pages were how they looked when new? Of course not! We did the best to recreate what was evident during our research. The colors were MATCHED almost perfectly against the best sample areas we could find that were not exposed to the elements. For those who are going to bring their millimeter ruler to see if we had the over spray to the exact "nth" degree, please do a little exercise before calling out our or ever so slight variances. Get a piece of paper and a pen. Sign your name twice. When you come up with two that are a perfect indistinguishable signature matches, please feel free to become our critic. Thanks!






Troy
Houston Mopar Connection Club
'69 Charger Daytona 440 - auto - 4.10 Dana (now with 426 hemi)
'69 Charger 500 440 - 4speed - 3.54 Dana
'70 Road Runner 383 - 4speed - a/c (now with 440)
Re: Taking it to the next level? Wow! [Re: 70RT Charger] #76803
06/21/08 05:56 PM
06/21/08 05:56 PM
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,711
USA
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ECS Offline
David Walden
ECS  Offline
David Walden
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USA
Quote:


Youre right ECS some people are just stupid,them some people just know it all,or THINK they know it all.




No, please let me rephrase my statement. I am sure you know much more about my car and this project than Steve and I do. Please excuse my naivety. I don't know what I was thinking. How dare I disagree with your obvious infinite wisdom and knowledge about my car.

(You might want to revisit your quote above and then take a good look in the mirror.)

Re: Taking it to the next level? Wow! [Re: 70RT Charger] #76804
06/21/08 07:15 PM
06/21/08 07:15 PM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 5,123
Warrenton, VA
RoadRunnerJD Offline
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RoadRunnerJD  Offline
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Warrenton, VA
Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Now!



Thats absolutely beautiful work,but if your gonna talk the talk you have to walk the walk,If i were judging your car I would minus you for having way too much white underneath,(not enough primer showing)it looks like in the pics you purposely painted underneath the car except for the center hump,it needs more of a overspray affect on it.Im not downing your work the rest looks friggin awesome.But you said you were going to make a car look liked it timed warped from the 70's, you either got to back it up or eat crow,sorry I had to be a critic.




You may be grasping at straws? I think the light makes the gray look lighter than it is.




Yes you may be exactly right JD,could be a lighter color primer,or to glossy of a primer,but if you notice the front firewall pic looked like alot white under there to.




It looks right to me? I've always seen them painted right up to the torsion bar cross member and would never want mine to look like just overspray in that area

Re: Taking it to the next level? Wow! [Re: RoadRunnerJD] #76805
06/21/08 08:18 PM
06/21/08 08:18 PM
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Posts: 1,711
USA
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ECS Offline
David Walden
ECS  Offline
David Walden
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Posts: 1,711
USA
Quote:

It looks right to me? I've always seen them painted right up to the torsion bar cross member and would never want mine to look like just overspray in that area




Thanks for the input RoadrunnerJD. The point that was obviously overlooked was that this car was 100% original paint and we used THE CAR ITSELF as the reference point. How can anyone on this thread use any other example as a benchmark for correctness with regards to this specific car's paint patterns??? I can only laugh when people (that didn't even know about the car until this thread was posted) attempt to "correct" us on the appearance and the "slightly too much over spray" in the firewall area. (Which by the way, is almost an exact duplication of the original over spray we documented.) It will certainly be entertaining to watch people argue with the documented pictures that we bring to the Nationals and present with the car!

Re: Taking it to the next level? Wow! [Re: ECS] #76806
06/21/08 08:47 PM
06/21/08 08:47 PM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 732
eastern,Ky
70RT Charger Offline
super stock
70RT Charger  Offline
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Posts: 732
eastern,Ky
ECS Im not going to get into a heated discussion over your car,like I said before It looks awesome but when you make quotes like this
Quote:

(I can certainly say that our efforts over the past 2 years + has (MIRRORED) what someone would have received when taking delivery of a new vehicle from a Dodge dealership 38 years ago!)(I (GUARANTEE) that you will see a “factory” vehicle that looks like it has been teleported from the year 1970 to present day.)


you are going to get criticized and I can tell by your arrogant replies you are not going to be able to take the heat.No where did I say that I knowed it all or implied that I knowed it all.Whenever you make big quotes like you did just make sure you will be able to back them up.

Re: Taking it to the next level? Wow! [Re: 70RT Charger] #76807
06/21/08 09:07 PM
06/21/08 09:07 PM
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Posts: 1,711
USA
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ECS Offline
David Walden
ECS  Offline
David Walden
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Posts: 1,711
USA
With all due respect, getting input from people like you is like a one legged pirate giving running advice to Carl Lewis. It will take a lot more than jealous individuals to rain on this parade. I assure you that I cover all the ground I walk on.

Re: Taking it to the next level? Wow! [Re: 70RT Charger] #76808
06/21/08 09:15 PM
06/21/08 09:15 PM
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Posts: 1,711
USA
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ECS Offline
David Walden
ECS  Offline
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Quote:

ECS Im not going to get into a heated discussion over your car,like I said before It looks awesome but when you make quotes like this
Quote:

(I can certainly say that our efforts over the past 2 years + has (MIRRORED) what someone would have received when taking delivery of a new vehicle from a Dodge dealership 38 years ago!)(I (GUARANTEE) that you will see a “factory” vehicle that looks like it has been teleported from the year 1970 to present day.)




Please let me clarify this prior quote so there is no misunderstanding......

**It is exactly what I meant!**

Re: Taking it to the next level? Wow! [Re: ECS] #76809
06/21/08 09:22 PM
06/21/08 09:22 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 27,347
Today? Who Knows?
1_WILD_RT Offline
Management Trainee
1_WILD_RT  Offline
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Posts: 27,347
Today? Who Knows?
Quote:


**It is exactly what I meant!**





Re: Taking it to the next level? Wow! [Re: ECS] #76810
06/21/08 09:27 PM
06/21/08 09:27 PM
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 126
Canada
S
sam c Offline
member
sam c  Offline
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Posts: 126
Canada
I would agree with the overspray applied.The car looks 100% correct excellent work.I attached photos of the undercarriage of my car revealing the same amount of overspray and because this car was totally undercoated it preserved the finish for all these years.

4503478-PICT0007.JPG (581 downloads)
Re: Taking it to the next level? Wow! [Re: sam c] #76811
06/21/08 09:29 PM
06/21/08 09:29 PM
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 126
Canada
S
sam c Offline
member
sam c  Offline
member
S

Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 126
Canada
Here's another picture

4503485-PICT0002.JPG (550 downloads)
Re: Taking it to the next level? Wow! [Re: 70RT Charger] #76812
06/21/08 10:25 PM
06/21/08 10:25 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 3,897
St. Louis, MO
Blues_Cuda Offline OP
master
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Posts: 3,897
St. Louis, MO
Quote:

ECS Im not going to get into a heated discussion over your car,like I said before It looks awesome but when you make quotes like this
Quote:

(I can certainly say that our efforts over the past 2 years + has (MIRRORED) what someone would have received when taking delivery of a new vehicle from a Dodge dealership 38 years ago!)(I (GUARANTEE) that you will see a “factory” vehicle that looks like it has been teleported from the year 1970 to present day.)


you are going to get criticized and I can tell by your arrogant replies you are not going to be able to take the heat.No where did I say that I knowed it all or implied that I knowed it all.Whenever you make big quotes like you did just make sure you will be able to back them up.




Let me say this....

I did not know Dave at all before yesterday. I think what you are perceiving as 'arrogant' is what I perceive as being 'passionate' about what they are trying to accomplish. Plain and simple.

Just my .

4503621-Dsc05360-1.jpg (543 downloads)
Re: Taking it to the next level? Wow! [Re: Blues_Cuda] #76813
06/21/08 10:51 PM
06/21/08 10:51 PM
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Posts: 1,711
USA
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ECS Offline
David Walden
ECS  Offline
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USA
Hello Scott,
Thanks for the input and the comments. (Thank you Sam for also sharing your original photos.) I don’t know why these threads end up becoming a bickering match between people who claim to have the same interests within a hobby. I had to laugh when I was told that I “would be criticized” sometime down the road. For what?!?! For restoring a car that emulates what it originally was? How can people who have never seen the car, (except for pictures that do not show it’s actual patina) be all geared up and chomping at the bit to attack and criticize? Why not wait until the car is shown and THEN start the slamming. And for those wonderful upbeat individuals, how are you going to deal with having to “back up” or eat your words? I promise that Steve and I will be ready to substantiate and prove every aspect of the car. A lot has been learned over the past three years.

*Sorry that this thread has diminished to such petty ignorance Scott. Thanks again for everything!

Re: Taking it to the next level? Wow! [Re: ECS] #76814
06/21/08 10:56 PM
06/21/08 10:56 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,268
Slidell, LA
Ronnman Offline
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Ronnman  Offline
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Posts: 1,268
Slidell, LA
Dave(ECS)- I could not help but notice the gasket like splash sheild mounted from the inside of the inner fender. Was this the way they were installed on the car? I thought they were installed from the outer side to allow easy removal for caster/camber adjustments. Just curious and always willing to learn.
Ron

Re: Taking it to the next level? Wow! [Re: ECS] #76815
06/21/08 11:26 PM
06/21/08 11:26 PM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 732
eastern,Ky
70RT Charger Offline
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70RT Charger  Offline
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Posts: 732
eastern,Ky
Quote:

Hello Scott,
Thanks for the input and the comments. (Thank you Sam for also sharing your original photos.) I don’t know why these threads end up becoming a bickering match between people who claim to have the same interests within a hobby. I had to laugh when I was told that I “would be criticized” sometime down the road. For what?!?! For restoring a car that emulates what it originally was? How can people who have never seen the car, (except for pictures that do not show it’s actual patina) be all geared up and chomping at the bit to attack and criticize? Why not wait until the car is shown and THEN start the slamming. And for those wonderful upbeat individuals, how are you going to deal with having to “back up” or eat your words? I promise that Steve and I will be ready to substantiate and prove every aspect of the car. A lot has been learned over the past three years.

*Sorry that this thread has diminished to such petty ignorance Scott. Thanks again for everything!




Im sorry for being so ignorant ECS,sometimes my stupdity overcomes me.Your feelings must have been really hurt when I Obviously made the wrong comment on your car,but I was wondering are you kin to Galen Govier? But right now Im so jealous Im chomping at the bits.I never did really slam your car,you got uptight because I said I thought you had to much white or it was the wrong color primer,but until I see more pics you got way to much white underneath and not enough primer.By the way what kind of acrylic enamel did you use?

Re: Taking it to the next level? Wow! [Re: 70RT Charger] #76816
06/22/08 12:11 AM
06/22/08 12:11 AM
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Posts: 1,711
USA
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ECS Offline
David Walden
ECS  Offline
David Walden
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USA
Think nothing of it. I have a nine year old who also makes comments without having any knowledge of certain situations. She also thinks that my feelings are hurt when I comment on her short comings. She just hasn't learned that she is not smart enough to hurt or bother me to any significant degree.
The paint is not enamel. It is an acrylic water base color, in hopes that some of the abundant over spray will wash off before the Nationals.

Re: Taking it to the next level? Wow! [Re: Ronnman] #76817
06/22/08 12:14 AM
06/22/08 12:14 AM
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USA
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ECS Offline
David Walden
ECS  Offline
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USA
The passenger side splash shield was inside the inner fender and the driver side shield was on the outside of the inner fender. Sorry to deviate from the subject but a few people have inquired about the primers and correct colors. It bothers me that none of the pictures posted displays the true color and sheen. Here is a picture that was taken without the flash and is a lot closer to what it really looks like. Notice that over half of the "white" looking over spray is gray primer and not white paint.

(Thanks for the input Mr. Been...even though we don't know anything)

Last edited by ECS; 06/22/08 12:15 AM.
Re: Taking it to the next level? Wow! [Re: ECS] #76818
06/22/08 12:15 AM
06/22/08 12:15 AM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 18,575
Dreaming of the 808
AZ_A12_BEE Offline
I Live Here
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Posts: 18,575
Dreaming of the 808
Can I get my A/C original hoses rebuilt and still look correct?

4503838-Picture057.jpg (426 downloads)

69.5 A12 Bee, first purchased in 1976, car 169 on registry 69 Coronet R/T 440/4 spd 69 Coronet 500 Conv H code 383 4bbl/auto 37 Plymouth PU Find your spot on earth and ride it.
Re: Taking it to the next level? Wow! [Re: 70RT Charger] #76819
06/22/08 12:21 AM
06/22/08 12:21 AM
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 243
St. Louis, MO
DodgeMaterial Offline
enthusiast
DodgeMaterial  Offline
enthusiast

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Posts: 243
St. Louis, MO
Chris, I said you had to trust me - but you seem to be having a hard time with that picture - and trusting a stranger.

It was very common to get paint on the front floor pan below the bulkhead seam. Attached is a different car but it illustrates my point. Look thru the rust - and 40 years ago that was all yellow. Again the colors can't be seen properly in the pictures - Dave

4503847-4bd0_3.jpg (421 downloads)

DodgeMaterial - Dave JS29U0B - FK5 - 440-4 Auto WS23V0A - EB5 - 440-6 Auto
Re: Taking it to the next level? Wow! [Re: ECS] #76820
06/22/08 12:42 AM
06/22/08 12:42 AM
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Posts: 1,711
USA
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ECS Offline
David Walden
ECS  Offline
David Walden
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Posts: 1,711
USA
Hi Troy,
I got your PM and have been asked this a few times so I thought would answer everyone in one swipe. The strut rod hardware/rubber are all NOS replacements. We did not need to replate any of the pieces that came in the kits. They are the same color BROWN as the hood latches, horn bolts, etc.... Once again the photos make them look different than what they actually look like in person. I also have over 200 pictures (just like the one below) documenting EVERY NOS part that was used on this car. We will also have a book made up showing those photos for everyone to view. Good to hear from you Troy! Take care.

DW

Re: Taking it to the next level? Wow! [Re: ECS] #76821
06/22/08 12:43 AM
06/22/08 12:43 AM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 732
eastern,Ky
70RT Charger Offline
super stock
70RT Charger  Offline
super stock

Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 732
eastern,Ky
Quote:

Quote:

ECS Im not going to get into a heated discussion over your car,like I said before It looks awesome but when you make quotes like this
Quote:

(I can certainly say that our efforts over the past 2 years + has (MIRRORED) what someone would have received when taking delivery of a new vehicle from a Dodge dealership 38 years ago!)(I (GUARANTEE) that you will see a “factory” vehicle that looks like it has been teleported from the year 1970 to present day.)




Please let me clarify this prior quote so there is no misunderstanding......

**It is exactly what I meant!**




Dave I do trust you and believe you and Im not going to argue anymore about the underside of the car,but ECS needs to eat crow on his comments,he will never be able to mirror that car as though it was teleported from 1970.Thats BS and you know it,and I GUARANTEE that!He should have said I am going to try,or close as possible because that sounds more professional and more believable.Let him tell it to somebody that believes it,but good point anyways Dave

Last edited by 70RT Charger; 06/22/08 12:48 AM.
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