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Grounding issue- Who would have thought it !! #764919
08/03/10 11:20 PM
08/03/10 11:20 PM
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Houston,Tx.
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Lee446 Offline OP
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I installed the battery in the trunk of my Satellite, ran a full #1 positive and ground up to the starter and the ground to the block. I have a ten ga. wire from the intake to the firewall. I ran a 14 ga. ground from the battery to the trunk hinge support where I have the fuel pump relay mounted. I have a removable connector on the battery ground which I disconnect when I am not driving the car, but the 14 ga. wire stays connected to keep the radio and alarm functioning.
I find it amazing, that when I frequently forget to reconnect the ground cable to the battery, the car will start up with just the 14 ga. as the sole ground connection !!! It will only start once, but did I mention this is a 528 Hemi ?? I sure never thought that would work and the wire sure gets hot! If I thought this was an anti-theft device, I guess I should go to a 20 ga. wire !! Anyone else experience this ?

Re: Grounding issue- Who would have thought it !! [Re: Lee446] #764920
08/03/10 11:36 PM
08/03/10 11:36 PM
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On the south side of Nowhere
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S/ST 3040 Offline
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On the south side of Nowhere
Maybe just leave the 1 gauge cable connected before you catch it afire.

Re: Grounding issue- Who would have thought it !! [Re: S/ST 3040] #764921
08/03/10 11:42 PM
08/03/10 11:42 PM
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SOUTH JERSEY
HEMIFRED Offline
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SOUTH JERSEY
one wire alternator or none?
one wire will seek a ground thru the case and not need a battery ground connection


home of the
Sox and Martin Hemi Duster


Re: Grounding issue- Who would have thought it !! [Re: HEMIFRED] #764922
08/04/10 12:29 AM
08/04/10 12:29 AM
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Houston,Tx.
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Lee446 Offline OP
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This is a street/strip car with the stock alternator and factory wiring. All I did was move the battery to the trunk. I would not think that 14 ga. would carry enough amps to spin it over, that 440 source chinese starter must be electrically efficient !

Re: Grounding issue- Who would have thought it !! [Re: Lee446] #764923
08/04/10 01:15 AM
08/04/10 01:15 AM
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Canton, Ohio
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Sport440 Offline
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Your connection on the 14 gauge ground would be very short and is capable of carrying a high amp for a very short time. Your starter is probably pulling around 70 to 125 amps or less.

So a "shorty" 14 gauge link can crank it a few times before it lights up like a lite bulb. I wouldnt make a practice of it though.

A 14 gauge wire carrying Amp capacity, will depend on wire length, ambient air temperature and amp draw time.

And as you found out, you get about one shot on a unknown most likely around a mild 70 amp draw IMO, mike

EDIT, Did I say mild Amp draw , 70 amps isnt mild for a 14 gauge wire, but it is for a starter motor.

Last edited by Sport440; 08/04/10 01:37 AM.
Re: Grounding issue- Who would have thought it !! [Re: Sport440] #764924
08/04/10 07:27 AM
08/04/10 07:27 AM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 28
WI.
4Huntin Offline
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WI.
Careful that your not using the
shift cable for a ground.
Mine welded itself up before I
cleaned and added more grounds.
Steve

Re: Grounding issue- Who would have thought it !! [Re: 4Huntin] #764925
08/04/10 10:09 AM
08/04/10 10:09 AM
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Houston,Tx.
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Lee446 Offline OP
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No shift cable, wire is about 18" long. I am amazed.

Re: Grounding issue- Who would have thought it !! [Re: Lee446] #764926
08/04/10 01:08 PM
08/04/10 01:08 PM
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Chicago,Illinois
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nosboy Offline
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Chicago,Illinois
I worked for a Ford dealer in the 1980's as a trans tech and there were a BUNCH of Aerostars that would come in with GOVERNOR RINGS burnt into the case.. Ford figured out the reason that the electricity chose the LEAST PATH OF RESISTANCE and instead of going thru the wire/cables,, it went through the rear end and DRIVESHAFT and thus DESTROYED the trans because of the "current" going thru the trans to "complete the circuit".. If you ever take a test light and connect the clip to the B+ battery post and you touch a HOSE CLAMP for the radiator OR the thermostat neck,, you will notice that the test light LIGHTS UP !!!! Well,, the "BLACK CARBON" that makes the rubber radiator hose black,, actually has CARBON added to the rubber,,, and when you COMPRESS the carbon/rubber hose by tightening the hose clamp,,, the continuity is made through the "carbon" thus completing the circuit and lighting the test light.. SO,,, my point IS,,, there are NUMEROUS other ways ( hoses and motor mounts) ( not to mention throwing 100 +++ amps through your driveshaft and governor body/ trans rings) that electricity has a PATH to complete the circuit.. You'd be AMAZED !!!!!

Re: Grounding issue- Who would have thought it !! [Re: nosboy] #764927
08/04/10 01:40 PM
08/04/10 01:40 PM
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White House,TN
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stroked470 Offline
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White House,TN
Before I got my first Mopar I had a 63 Ranchero that I put a 351 Windsor in. I worked at a garage and had several people stop by to look and listen to the new motor. With it dark outside the first few times I started it for people I hooked the battery up wrong. It still started fine. I done that several times before I looked one day at the post and figured it out. I even hooked it up again backwards to make sure I wasn't seeing things and it started just fine.

Re: Grounding issue- Who would have thought it !! [Re: stroked470] #764928
08/04/10 03:35 PM
08/04/10 03:35 PM
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Posts: 3,695
nc
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emarine01 Offline
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That hemi must start easy its hard to get 40 amps out of a short run of 14g for a short time, You did not mention how long it was but I would think around 8 to 10 inches cause any thing a little longer should glow, If you want anti theft protection I would get fusible link or a circuit breaker

Re: Grounding issue- Who would have thought it !! [Re: emarine01] #764929
08/04/10 04:20 PM
08/04/10 04:20 PM
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Posts: 8,902
Ontario, Canada
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Stanton Offline
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Ontario, Canada
If I were you I'd consider an isolated ground for your alarm and radio so you don't run the risk of accidentally setting the car ablaze. Likewise it'll aid as the theft deterant that you intended it to be in the first place.

Re: Grounding issue- Who would have thought it !! [Re: emarine01] #764930
08/04/10 05:19 PM
08/04/10 05:19 PM
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Quicktree Offline
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your ground is one of the single most important parts of the electrical system everything needs to be grounded to the batt and the frame. ingnitions should go directly to the batt not through the chassis or frame. motor should be on at least a #2 ground wire and several places wont hurt. can't hurt to ground the tranny either.

Re: Grounding issue- Who would have thought it !! [Re: Quicktree] #764931
08/04/10 07:55 PM
08/04/10 07:55 PM
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Posts: 2,364
PA
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70HemiGTX Offline
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I have ground wires running everywhere on my car. Never too safe. And not little ones.

Last edited by 70HemiGTX; 08/04/10 07:56 PM.
Re: Grounding issue- Who would have thought it !! [Re: 70HemiGTX] #764932
08/04/10 08:31 PM
08/04/10 08:31 PM
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Richmond Va, KeislerTKO 60...
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VanishPt Offline
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i even have #4 gauge from both header collectors to the crossmember mounts

Re: Grounding issue- Who would have thought it !! [Re: 70HemiGTX] #764933
08/04/10 10:15 PM
08/04/10 10:15 PM
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New Mexico
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Adobedude Offline
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New Mexico
Quote:

I have ground wires running everywhere on my car. Never too safe. And not little ones.




I had ground wires running everywhere...Now everything runs to a central ground block and that grounds directly to the battery.



Length of the ground wire needs to be included when you're figuring out what size ga wire/cable to run for power. Run the same size for the ground. And bigger is better if there's a doubt.


2001 Dodge Dakota
408 All Motor
11.27 @ 117.83 mph
2017 NM Mopar Challenge Series Champion.
Re: Grounding issue- Who would have thought it !! [Re: Adobedude] #764934
08/04/10 10:20 PM
08/04/10 10:20 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,364
PA
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70HemiGTX Offline
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PA
Quote:

Quote:

I have ground wires running everywhere on my car. Never too safe. And not little ones.




I had ground wires running everywhere...Now everything runs to a central ground block and that grounds directly to the battery.



Length of the ground wire needs to be included when you're figuring out what size ga wire/cable to run for power. Run the same size for the ground. And bigger is better if there's a doubt.




Actually I should clarify. I have ground wires going basically to the frame and then the battery (-) bolted to the frame in the rear.

Re: Grounding issue- Who would have thought it !! [Re: 70HemiGTX] #764935
08/04/10 10:42 PM
08/04/10 10:42 PM
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Posts: 1,260
New Mexico
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Adobedude Offline
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I DID have ground wires running everywhere...And all too small.



2001 Dodge Dakota
408 All Motor
11.27 @ 117.83 mph
2017 NM Mopar Challenge Series Champion.
Re: Grounding issue- Who would have thought it !! [Re: 70HemiGTX] #764936
08/04/10 10:44 PM
08/04/10 10:44 PM
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Posts: 3,695
nc
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emarine01 Offline
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I have the batts in the rear of my truck, I weld a 3/8 bolt every 5 feet goin up the frame rail to the eng, I run a 1/0 AGW cable with real crimp ends and join the bolts and ground wires together then run all my small grounds to the closest junction point, I never liked just a frame ground, the frame and cable offer almost no resistance

Re: Grounding issue- Who would have thought it !! [Re: Sport440] #764937
08/05/10 08:50 PM
08/05/10 08:50 PM
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Bitopia
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Quote:

Your connection on the 14 gauge ground would be very short and is capable of carrying a high amp for a very short time. Your starter is probably pulling around 70 to 125 amps or less.

So a "shorty" 14 gauge link can crank it a few times before it lights up like a lite bulb. I wouldnt make a practice of it though.

A 14 gauge wire carrying Amp capacity, will depend on wire length, ambient air temperature and amp draw time.





I think this important enough that I'll repeat this to be sure everybody got it


Reality check, that half the population is smarter then 50% of the people and it's a constantly contested fact.






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