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Re: black A12 bee "trans by Bruce" photo
[Re: smac77]
#758292
08/04/10 08:27 AM
08/04/10 08:27 AM
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 3,363
DTW
drmopar
master
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master
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 3,363
DTW
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Amazing how quickly this thread got into a pi**ing match over nothing. Bottom line, The black bee is awesome, its in another continent, and Pete has a sweet GTX. Next.....
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RM27H9G 4 speed F8/tan guts
RS27L9G auto B5/black guts
WM23H9G auto F5/green guts
2021 Challenger 392 Indigo/black guts
2019 Charger Daytona R/T F8 on black
2018 Ram Sport Hemi 4x4
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Re: black A12 bee "trans by Bruce" photo
[Re: smac77]
#758293
08/04/10 10:54 AM
08/04/10 10:54 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,407
Brantford Ontario
69_SIX_PACK
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,407
Brantford Ontario
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Quote:
Quote:
Even after that explanation I don't see how you can sell a car that you don't own?
Sounds to me you really put yourself into a pickle. You are very lucky that Pete went threw with the deal as I believe the lawyers would have been going after you.
Did you ever take possession of the car and put it into your name?
Have you learned anything from that experience or are you still marketing other peoples cars and then buying after you have pre-sold them?
Does this sort of new age flipping have a name?
Man I sure hate when $$$ gets involved in a good hobby...
Dave
I could explain it all further to you so you'd understand what actually transpired but this is really Mine, my client and Pete's business and we've worked it all out... no hard feelings between us... Pete and I even gabbed on the phone about cars for a good half hour just a couple days ago...
Besides, I think he's pretty happy with his triple black Hemi GTX he got by way of this whole deal...
I'd appreciate it if you didn't lecture me over something you don't have all the details for and know absolutly nothing about...
No need to get so sensitive, I just asked a quick question.
Did you make it a habit of selling cars you don't own or have possession of?
Doesn't seem like a good business practice to me. There would be no need to smooth things over if you just did things the right way in the first place.
Maybe this in the next new thing 
Sean I am just writing down what many others are thinking, its not my reputation on the line...this is being discussed on a public forum you know 
Dave
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Re: black A12 bee "trans by Bruce" photo
[Re: 69_SIX_PACK]
#758294
08/04/10 12:22 PM
08/04/10 12:22 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,970
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,970
U.S.S.A.
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Even after that explanation I don't see how you can sell a car that you don't own?
Sounds to me you really put yourself into a pickle. You are very lucky that Pete went threw with the deal as I believe the lawyers would have been going after you.
Did you ever take possession of the car and put it into your name?
Have you learned anything from that experience or are you still marketing other peoples cars and then buying after you have pre-sold them?
Does this sort of new age flipping have a name?
Man I sure hate when $$$ gets involved in a good hobby...
Dave
I could explain it all further to you so you'd understand what actually transpired but this is really Mine, my client and Pete's business and we've worked it all out... no hard feelings between us... Pete and I even gabbed on the phone about cars for a good half hour just a couple days ago...
Besides, I think he's pretty happy with his triple black Hemi GTX he got by way of this whole deal...
I'd appreciate it if you didn't lecture me over something you don't have all the details for and know absolutly nothing about...
No need to get so sensitive, I just asked a quick question.
Did you make it a habit of selling cars you don't own or have possession of?
Doesn't seem like a good business practice to me. There would be no need to smooth things over if you just did things the right way in the first place.
Maybe this in the next new thing
Sean I am just writing down what many others are thinking, its not my reputation on the line...this is being discussed on a public forum you know
Dave
Nothing new , it worked for Fred E ?
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Re: black A12 bee "trans by Bruce" photo
[Re: GregCon]
#758295
08/04/10 01:08 PM
08/04/10 01:08 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 8,827
Houston, Tx
hemi68charger
master
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master
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 8,827
Houston, Tx
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Quote:
Regarding A12 cars.....
Around 1982 in Pflugerville, TX we used to see a Butterscotch Super Bee sitting on the side of what was a fairly major road; the one that connects P-ville to I35. Sometimes it would be there, sometimes it would be gone. We had a friend with the DPS run the plates and found the name of the guy who owned it. We then called him. It turns out he was an interstate truck driver who used the Super Bee to drive when he was home, and left it on the side of the highway when he was driving.
The car was optioned with a 4 speed, 4.10 Dana (we crawled under it and looked), black interior, black vinyl top. It had no air cleaner, but it still had the original hood. You could peek in the scoop and see the two outer carb had been removed and blocked off with silicone and aluminum plates. There were lots of scratches on the roof where the hood had been placed when it was off.
It was a fairly straight car with original paint and a bullet dent on the rear of the trunk lid
Anyway, in a deep South voice he told us it "was for sale but not for a nickel less than $3500."
On hearing that, we lost all hope - the guy was crazy and unreasonable and being teenagers we had no money. We were used to buying cars for under $300.
A few months later an older guy who did a lot of 'flipping' (I hate that word) of Mopars bought it and I have no idea where it went.
I remember hearing about this "Urban Legend A-12" when I lived in Ft.Worth and Austin between '87-'98... It's small world...
TroyHouston Mopar Connection Club'69 Charger Daytona 440 - auto - 4.10 Dana (now with 426 hemi) '69 Charger 500 440 - 4speed - 3.54 Dana '70 Road Runner 383 - 4speed - a/c (now with 440)
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Re: black A12 bee "trans by Bruce" photo
[Re: hemi68charger]
#758296
08/04/10 02:28 PM
08/04/10 02:28 PM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,794
BC Canada
ogopogo
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,794
BC Canada
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Quote:
Poor Pete. This is what he got stuck with after the Bee left.
R Code, 4 speed Black on black.
Can we see some more pics of the GTX ? 
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Re: black A12 bee "trans by Bruce" photo
[Re: 69_SIX_PACK]
#758297
08/05/10 11:30 AM
08/05/10 11:30 AM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 417
Caledon, Ontario
smac77
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 417
Caledon, Ontario
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No need to get so sensitive, I just asked a quick question.
Did you make it a habit of selling cars you don't own or have possession of?
Doesn't seem like a good business practice to me. There would be no need to smooth things over if you just did things the right way in the first place.
Maybe this in the next new thing
Sean I am just writing down what many others are thinking, its not my reputation on the line...this is being discussed on a public forum you know
Dave
Dave,
you are attacking my character and my business practises in a public fourm without even having all the info, without even knowing me, or knowing the nature of this deal, so yes, I'm a little sensitive about that... No one appreciates being slandered by someone who does not know the facts..
In this case I'm not selling a car I don't own, in the context you're implying. I'm brokering a deal on a classic car... it happens every day with real estate, stocks, commodities... funny how when it's all of a sudden a mopar, it's now "bad business practice"
There's a select group of people out there who wish to remain annonymous in business transactions for many, many reasons... these would include rock stars, politicians, dignitaries, etc.... they have companies like mine, source cars they'd like to own, broker deals so they can deal in private with a source they trust... I buy the car through my company, they buy it from my company. So there's only one buyer really, just by way of two contracts... I take the risk and responsibility for the purchase process. I get calls every week from people looking to buy classic cars but unsure of the transaction process so I handle it for them, everything from inspection to negotiating , to shipping and customs clearance, those cars also funnel through the same channel 1 buyer two contracts... I act as the "face" of the sale on behalf of another. Some clients pay a commision, some a flat rate and others a mark up as any business would do...
Now consider the legal part... Contracts and deposits exist for only one reason... to legally bind and secure a deal, so the next stage of a transaction can be put into motion.... they become especially important in deals where the monetary value is very, very large... mainly due to the fact that money needs to be pulled from multiple sources or large investments or off shore funds need to be cashed... that takes time and sometimes a considerable amount of fees... Once I secure a deal by way of a deposit and contract, I'm in a legal position to enter into a contract for the resale of those goods, whatever they may be... no wrong doing, no bad business practise...
Would you also say I'm involved in bad business practise when a person consigns a car with me for resale? Becuase I'm now selling a car I don't own? In that case, you're questioning every dealer in the world....
Some people would just prefer to let others handle the business end of a deal for them...you've brought my character into question becuase I do that for them, doesn't seem right does it....
so to answer your question, yes I sell cars I don't own...but not in the manner you are suggesting.
I take pride in my business, I've been a car guy all my life, I'm hands on in the trenches restoring these things every day, and I consider myself an honest stand up person.. I get several calls from people asking advice on restoring buying or selling cars and I try to answer all of them to the best of my ability so that their experience with these cars is as pleasureable as mine... If you take shots at me or my business for doing the things I do, I'm going to set you, and the record straight...
Can we drop this now, since everyone is probably sick do death of another guy whining about a dealer (flipper, whatever)....
get over it, it happens
Last edited by smac77; 08/05/10 11:47 AM.
Restoration, Sales and Canadian Distributor For: AMD Sheetmetal Wizzard Direct Fit, Bolt In Aluminum Radiators Legendary Interiors SSBC & Wilwood Brakes Control Freak Suspensions Fine lines Tubing and many more... www.macleanclassics.com
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Re: black A12 bee "trans by Bruce" photo
[Re: smac77]
#758298
08/05/10 11:40 PM
08/05/10 11:40 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,407
Brantford Ontario
69_SIX_PACK
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,407
Brantford Ontario
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Quote:
I would say thats "sort of" the real story... There was never a threat of lawyers to Pete... it was more of a concern that Pete and I did the deal, the price was agreed, the deposit was sent and at that point, since I felt I had secured the car, I entered into a legal business contract with my buyer for the re-sale of the car.. and he already cashed in investments and wired me money for it. So... to back out after all that was in motion, could have caused serious problems for me, not Pete... He was a 100% stand up guy and honoured the deal we had in place, more to cover my a$$ than anything.... I'm greatfull for that. Had the situation been different, I never would have asked pete to complete a deal he had second thoughts about...
Hey Sean,
Sorry I must be stupid but here you say you re-sold it and now you are saying you brokered it?
Maybe you can run the word slander by your lawyers, cause I did nothing of the kind. Simply I asked a simple question and made an observation about yes poor business practices.
If it was a good business practise you would have had no reason to say:
Had the situation been different, I never would have asked pete to complete a deal he had second thoughts about...
Did Pete consign the vehicle with you then Sean?
Anyway I am havig a tough time keeping up, like I said I am more of a simple kind of guy, I don't hang around rock stars, I don't name drop the people I hang around or simply try to make out like I am someone I am not.
I was just asking a pretty simple question or two. No real need for you to get bent outta shape.
And no its really none of my business but when you wrote your version of the "real story" being an inquisitive guy I thought you may want to clear up some of the simple points.
Instead you feel the need to ramble on how mean I am? How I am attacking you? Your character? Slander?
I think not...
Bought, re-sold, brokered, all have different meanings.
If you wanted to you could have set the record straight from the beginning instead...
Dave
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Re: black A12 bee "trans by Bruce" photo
[Re: 69_SIX_PACK]
#758299
08/05/10 11:50 PM
08/05/10 11:50 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 266
Illinois
SteveA
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 266
Illinois
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I prefer the old days where you bought the car from the guy selling it and you handed him the money. Much simpler and reduces the problems with a "broker." But like Dave, I am an average guy and don't need someone else to do my buying for me. Too bad that Pete was pressured to sell it when he didn't want to- due to a brokered deal.
Steve
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Re: black A12 bee "trans by Bruce" photo
[Re: 69_SIX_PACK]
#758300
08/05/10 11:58 PM
08/05/10 11:58 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,407
Brantford Ontario
69_SIX_PACK
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,407
Brantford Ontario
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As I read through your various posts on this subject I realize the you bought, brokered and consigned all on the same car. Impressive. I am more than a little confused but hey I am not the smartest guy either. Maybe I just misunderstood. Later, The Whinner 
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Re: black A12 bee "trans by Bruce" photo
[Re: SteveA]
#758301
08/06/10 12:03 AM
08/06/10 12:03 AM
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,400
Columbia Station, Ohio
69RTSE
OP
pro stock
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OP
pro stock
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,400
Columbia Station, Ohio
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I think part of the problem was that the end buyer is in England. Kinda hard to come look at a car across the Atlantic, and I can see the need for a broker in that case...still, if I was Pete, unless I signed a contract to sell it, I probably would have backed out after getting a clean bill of health from the doctor.  Getting back to the car, I think it's amazing that a rare car like this SuperBee can spend 30+ years in the same garage, and then in just 2-3 short years has been in Ohio, Michigan, Pennsylvania, New York, Canada, and England. 
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Re: black A12 bee "trans by Bruce" photo
[Re: SteveA]
#758303
08/06/10 10:33 AM
08/06/10 10:33 AM
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 6,446
NJ-USA
HPMike
master
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master
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 6,446
NJ-USA
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Quote:
Quote:
Getting back to the car, I think it's amazing that a rare car like this SuperBee can spend 30+ years in the same garage, and then in just 2-3 short years has been in Ohio, Michigan, Pennsylvania, New York, Canada, and England.
Thus the term, "flipping."
I can't speak of any of the others. But I can assure you that Pete didn't "flip" that Bee. Here is his qoute from earlier in the thread.
"truth is , i lost 65k on the black bee, and I sold it to a guy in canada,who then sold it to one of his customers in england..With the money I bought a 70 tripple black 4 spd hemi gtx"
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Re: black A12 bee "trans by Bruce" photo
[Re: 69RTSE]
#758304
08/06/10 11:18 AM
08/06/10 11:18 AM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 417
Caledon, Ontario
smac77
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 417
Caledon, Ontario
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Quote:
I think part of the problem was that the end buyer is in England. Kinda hard to come look at a car across the Atlantic, and I can see the need for a broker in that case...still, if I was Pete, unless I signed a contract to sell it, I probably would have backed out after getting a clean bill of health from the doctor.
Getting back to the car, I think it's amazing that a rare car like this SuperBee can spend 30+ years in the same garage, and then in just 2-3 short years has been in Ohio, Michigan, Pennsylvania, New York, Canada, and England.
That is the nature of the beast these days...10-20 years ago it was all about a handshake and an envelope of cash in a face to face deal... now the internet is the marketplace...
Restoration, Sales and Canadian Distributor For: AMD Sheetmetal Wizzard Direct Fit, Bolt In Aluminum Radiators Legendary Interiors SSBC & Wilwood Brakes Control Freak Suspensions Fine lines Tubing and many more... www.macleanclassics.com
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Re: black A12 bee "trans by Bruce" photo
[Re: smac77]
#758305
08/06/10 10:55 PM
08/06/10 10:55 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 175
Cleveland, Ohio
71VBEE
member
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member
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 175
Cleveland, Ohio
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An old Dodge is a passion for some and a commodity for others. I am greatful that I have the option to treat anything in the mannner that best fits my needs at the time. Creativity has kept this hobby alive and kicking for quite some time now. Don't lose sight of the fact that these cars only exsisted because Ma Mopar exploited a niche in the market 35+ years ago, just like some folks today.
1971 Superbee 440-6 auto dana airgrabber
The resto started: Nov 2004, now its 2024 and its 95% finished. I can't believe it is the same car I started with.
1964 Corvette coupe...always gets more attention than the Bee from the general public.
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Re: black A12 bee "trans by Bruce" photo
[Re: 71VBEE]
#758306
08/07/10 12:21 AM
08/07/10 12:21 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,720
Jefferson State
srt
ESYC
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ESYC
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,720
Jefferson State
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I've been out of town house shopping and this thread hits home for me on several fronts.
Owning a b body for over twenty years ("the one I always wanted"), I've faced the thought to sell several times for reasons ranging from, it wouldn't be fun if it was all restored, I've got a deadly diesease and don't want the wife to deal with selling, to now, I want to buy our dream home.
Each time I've concluded that it should stay where it's at, there is always another way to deal with whatever issue pushes the urge to sell. If you have what you always want, why, why let it go?
The subject car (this thread) is awesome and has an interesting story that truly reinforces my feelings to hang on.
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Re: black A12 bee "trans by Bruce" photo
[Re: GregCon]
#758308
08/09/10 02:29 PM
08/09/10 02:29 PM
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 983
Michigan
sandbagger
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 983
Michigan
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Pete's car was incredible for those who didn't see it! Glad to hear your doing well and thanks for the help with my A12 Pete your a stand up guy! Hope to see you at the Nats and you might recognize a few parts on my car....from you garage! 
"Hemmings Liftoff Hood Cover Bee"
"63 Savoy Max Wedge"
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