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Re: too much cam????? kinda long-please help!!!!!
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#723428
06/13/10 09:27 PM
06/13/10 09:27 PM
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,177
ill
dennismopar73
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,177
ill
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never seen a comp cam way off run several checked all with degree wheel i always check mine i have seen one that was WAY out there wasnt a comp ,, used to be a guy live here who worked at comp learned alot about cams from him done alot of work with the ss guys back in the day more problems with gears and chains than any cams by the way 
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Re: too much cam????? kinda long-please help!!!!!
[Re: dennismopar73]
#723429
06/13/10 09:35 PM
06/13/10 09:35 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Quote:
never seen a comp cam way off
run several checked all with degree wheel
i always check mine
i have seen one that was WAY out there wasnt a comp ,,
used to be a guy live here who worked at comp
learned alot about cams from him done alot of work with the ss guys back in the day
more problems with gears and chains than any cams by the way
I had one that the key way in the cam was cut 29*
off so if you lined up the dots it CRASHED big time,
without degreeing the cam it CANT BE SAID its straight
up or not... of course you can guess all you want
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Re: too much cam????? kinda long-please help!!!!!
[Re: dennismopar73]
#723430
06/13/10 10:55 PM
06/13/10 10:55 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439
Val-haul-ass... eventually
BradH
Taking time off to work on my car
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Taking time off to work on my car
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439
Val-haul-ass... eventually
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Quote:
never seen a comp cam way off
I have... the one I just pulled out of my Challenger's engine had to be installed +8 on the gear set to actually end up +3 on the ICL (i.e. 5 degrees retarded).
I installed & mapped the profiles of that Comp, an UltraDyne, a Bullet and a Lazer in my engine while it was still on the stand and the ONLY cam that was ground correctly as far as "straight up" phasing was the Lazer. The Bullet was the worst and the the Comp and the UltraDyne were about equally off, but in opposite directions.
Moral: DEGREE IT.
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Re: too much cam????? kinda long-please help!!!!!
[Re: 70challenger408]
#723433
06/13/10 11:27 PM
06/13/10 11:27 PM
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 740
WA
JD Dart
super stock
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super stock
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 740
WA
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So with you foot braking it, it will hold at 3000 rpm without moving the car? From the time slip it looks real lazy  make sure you get that cam degree like every one has said I've put a number of those cams in even with a 3800 stall they would 60' 1.5's in a Dakota truck.
best so far 8.53 @ 158.59 MPH 60'1.240
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Re: too much cam????? kinda long-please help!!!!!
[Re: 70challenger408]
#723435
06/13/10 11:34 PM
06/13/10 11:34 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,826
las vegas
70AARcuda
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,826
las vegas
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couple of questions...
what time of year was that you ran it compared to this year...the vegas heat can slow a car down almost .5 tenths...
I have all the tools necessary to degree in a cam...except it is more of a PIA with heads on..
Tony
70 AARCuda Vitamin C
71 Dart Swinger 360 10.318 @ 128.22(10-04-14 Bakersfield)
71 Demon 360 10.666 @122.41 (01-29-17 @ Las Vegas)
71 Duster 408 (10.29 @ 127.86 3/16/19 Las Vegas)
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Re: too much cam????? kinda long-please help!!!!!
[Re: 70challenger408]
#723437
06/14/10 06:48 AM
06/14/10 06:48 AM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 11,704
W. Kentucky
justinp61
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 11,704
W. Kentucky
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Quote:
et-13.98
mph-98.07
trapped at 6800rpm(if I remember right).
any useful thoughts????
What size tire? 6800 rpm @ 98 mph, I'd be looking at my converter or transmission. BYW it should be very strong with that cam .
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Re: too much cam????? kinda long-please help!!!!!
[Re: 70challenger408]
#723438
06/14/10 07:37 AM
06/14/10 07:37 AM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,595
On the south side of Nowhere
S/ST 3040
master
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master
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,595
On the south side of Nowhere
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I'd really like to know what intake you took off......I'd guess a Performer or similar? What I see is you went 2 different directions with the car...... Single plane intake on an engine that probably makes peak power at 5300 RPM. Cam is bigger, probably not detrimental to the combination but, not degreeing it in is a BIG no no. Then you went from 3.91 to a 3.55 gear........2 directions this case. I would attribute .5 second to not spending time tuning at the track. I'm not going to bust you up but, you changed the engine to move the power up in RPM and the rear end to lower it. That's just what I'm seeing.
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Re: too much cam????? kinda long-please help!!!!!
[Re: 70challenger408]
#723440
06/14/10 09:12 AM
06/14/10 09:12 AM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,178
Indy
FlyFish
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,178
Indy
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Something is WAY off there. I have the same cam in a very similar combo…410 stroker, 10.8 comp, ported eddys, Air-gap, 750dp, 4.10 gear…only mine runs 6.90’s @ 98mph in the 1/8 with a 1.49 60’. In the heat (90°F with lots-O-humidity) my car only slowed to a 7.08 @ 97mph. This cam make a lot of torque, so I doubt your gears are hurting you that much. IMO, if you used the spring recommended by comp (914-16) then that may be part of your problem right there…those springs are too light. I’m running comp 939-16 installed @ 1.85, which gives ~ 190 lbs on the seat & ~460 lbs open. You should probably use more spring than what I have, I’m just limited due to my rockers.
67 Barracuda street car, 408, e85, 1.38 60', 6.44 @105.9 in the 1/8 mile, 10.19 @130.5 in the 1/4...so far....
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Re: too much cam????? kinda long-please help!!!!!
[Re: 70challenger408]
#723441
06/14/10 09:16 AM
06/14/10 09:16 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,152
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,152
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
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The first thing you need to do is find out if all cylinders are sealing, and the cranking compression. If the cranking compression is even, follow with a leak down test. You want good ring seal or all else is a waste of time.
Theses steps well tell the story of roughly where the cam is, and if the wiped lobes took out the rings.
Next, find a way to check the air fuel ratio. You need to know if you are anywhere close. Jet as needed.
I highly recommend a chassis dyno session to be certain your ignition and fuel ratio get dialed in and have no problems.
Next, test the converter to see just how high it will flash once the motor is up and running strong. If your converter will flash past torque peak, the gears will have significantly less impact. If you have too little stall, they will kill you.
Too little stall to me with this combo would mean anything less than about 4400+ rpm.
If you get stuck anywhere along the line diagnosing this, just stay at looking for a way to get the info you need. Without doing this step by step, you are just stabbing in the dark.
8.582, 160.18 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
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Re: too much cam????? kinda long-please help!!!!!
[Re: 70challenger408]
#723442
06/14/10 09:20 AM
06/14/10 09:20 AM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Quote:
yes springs were replaced with matching springs recommended by COMP.
here are the 1/4 info you requested mr p-body
r/t-.656
60'-2.123
330-5.88
1/8-8.99
mph-79.30
1000-11.6876
et-13.98
mph-98.07
can't find previous best slip, but i know it was 12.7 @105mph
I was foot braking it-launch @3000rpm, small wheel spin, and shifted at 6500rpm-trapped at 6800rpm(if I remember right).
any useful thoughts????
Looks like most of the problem is the low end...
like its lacking torque to get it rolling... I would
degree the cam in FIRST and add a few degrees of
advance for the heavy car... also seems like a lot
of rpm for your gear
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Re: too much cam????? kinda long-please help!!!!!
[Re: gregsdart]
#723443
06/14/10 09:28 AM
06/14/10 09:28 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,152
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,152
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
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Using a cam/running compression calculator, you should have about 200 pounds cranking compression if the cam is set at 104 degrees. That will run on 93 octane, or should. The dual plane might very well be a better choice here as well, as most don't loose ground to a single plane intake till after 5000 rpm. Remember that a LOT of time is required to get past 5000 rpm after the launch, and on each gear change. That is why a real loose converter is needed for a single plane.
8.582, 160.18 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
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Re: too much cam????? kinda long-please help!!!!!
[Re: 70challenger408]
#723444
06/14/10 10:10 AM
06/14/10 10:10 AM
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,746
Ontario, Canada
Dodgem
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,746
Ontario, Canada
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My gut tells me the cam is retarded when extra advance would get you going. From the 1/8 to 1/4 it pulled pretty good.
At 6700 I would assume you were still in second gear
98 would be about the right speed with 3.55 gears and a 27 inch tire.
OR you have 50% converter slip?? or you were trapping at 4600??
Last edited by Dodgem; 06/14/10 10:19 AM.
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