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Cylinder ridge? #715484
06/03/10 09:18 PM
06/03/10 09:18 PM
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SLOW67 Offline OP
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What is an acceceptable amount of ridge at the top of the cylinder? I picked up a 318 from a friend that I'm goin to slap together and drop down in my car but it has a slight ridge at the top. I'm talking your finger nail barely touches it.

Re: Cylinder ridge? [Re: SLOW67] #715485
06/03/10 09:55 PM
06/03/10 09:55 PM
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MoparforLife Offline
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0 is acceptable. any time you can catch a finger nail on it it can also catch a new square edged ring and break a ring, or ring land or both.

Re: Cylinder ridge? [Re: MoparforLife] #715486
06/03/10 11:30 PM
06/03/10 11:30 PM
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dulcich Offline
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Here is the real deal.
.001-.003 will run like a new engine.

.004-.007 can be re-ring and run great for a while

.008-.010 will blowby some, but run good for 20,000 miles

.011-.013+ will make you wish you bit the bullet and bored and bought new pistons

Have the taper measured from the top of the bore (top ring travel) where you will find the most wear to the bottom where there will be zero wear.

You won't break rings as some suggest. Just hone and re-ring.

If the bores are good enough to hone and re-ring, use a moly ring when you rebuild it.

Back in the day (1970's and '80's) I built a lot of re-ringed engines for my own use and low-buck guys, and this is my take from seeing the results.
-dulcich

Re: Cylinder ridge? [Re: dulcich] #715487
06/03/10 11:41 PM
06/03/10 11:41 PM
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SLOW67 Offline OP
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Thanks! I'll measure it tomorrow and see what I have. The bores look really clean and I wouldn't have torn it down but I plan on doing junkyard magnum heads and a better cam so I figured why not. o btw, are you still doing any magazine stuff?

Re: Cylinder ridge? [Re: SLOW67] #715488
06/03/10 11:56 PM
06/03/10 11:56 PM
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dulcich Offline
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Quote:

Thanks! I'll measure it tomorrow and see what I have. The bores look really clean and I wouldn't have torn it down but I plan on doing junkyard magnum heads and a better cam so I figured why not. o btw, are you still doing any magazine stuff?





I am the editor of Engine Masters, and write tech columns for Mopar Muscle and Corvette Fever, along with the Engine Masters column in Popular Hot Rodding, and quite a few other articles, mostly in PHR, and sometimes in other mags when I have the time.
-dulcich

Re: Cylinder ridge? [Re: dulcich] #715489
06/04/10 06:34 AM
06/04/10 06:34 AM
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Although I usually agree with you dulcich and have used several of your articles as references but I disagree here. .001 or there about you can get by with a hone but much more than that and you are asking for trouble. Seen it too many times over the years and I am as low buck as anybody. In act any ridge that you can catch a finger nail on should be removed before piston removal if you plan to reuse the pistons to prevent ring land damage from rings catching on the ridge on removal. seen this happen many times.
Depends on if - Do you feel lucky today?

Re: Cylinder ridge? [Re: MoparforLife] #715490
06/04/10 09:19 AM
06/04/10 09:19 AM
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dulcich Offline
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Quote:

Although I usually agree with you dulcich and have used several of your articles as references but I disagree here. .001 or there about you can get by with a hone but much more than that and you are asking for trouble. Seen it too many times over the years and I am as low buck as anybody. In act any ridge that you can catch a finger nail on should be removed before piston removal if you plan to reuse the pistons to prevent ring land damage from rings catching on the ridge on removal. seen this happen many times.
Depends on if - Do you feel lucky today?




I'd much rather have a new bored out block too, but those numbers are for the guy that just cant afford any other option. Once knew a kid who re-ringed a Ford 390 with .013 taper in bores, and used chrome rings! Needless to say that one was a failure. I did a 215 olds for my 46 Willys Jeep in high school with .006 (best) to .008 (worst) knurled stock pistons, cast iron rings. Ran about 15 years on that build till the block froze one winter and cracked.
-dulcich

Re: Cylinder ridge? [Re: dulcich] #715491
06/04/10 09:28 AM
06/04/10 09:28 AM
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Posts: 916
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PC-CHARGER Offline
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I would agree with both Don and Steve because I think they are talking about two different things. Don is talking about removing any ridge while Steve is talking about cylinder taper. The amount of ridge is a good indication of taper because that is usually the point of maximum wear on the cylinder.

Steve's numbers are great guideline but any re-ring job should have the ridge removed.

My

Re: Cylinder ridge? [Re: dulcich] #715492
06/04/10 09:45 AM
06/04/10 09:45 AM
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Crizila Offline
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Quote:

Here is the real deal.
.001-.003 will run like a new engine.

.004-.007 can be re-ring and run great for a while

.008-.010 will blowby some, but run good for 20,000 miles

.011-.013+ will make you wish you bit the bullet and bored and bought new pistons

Have the taper measured from the top of the bore (top ring travel) where you will find the most wear to the bottom where there will be zero wear.

You won't break rings as some suggest. Just hone and re-ring.

If the bores are good enough to hone and re-ring, use a moly ring when you rebuild it.

Back in the day (1970's and '80's) I built a lot of re-ringed engines for my own use and low-buck guys, and this is my take from seeing the results.
-dulcich


If the ridge is under .005", I don't even bother to ridge ream it on a driver. Hone it, dump rings in it, and let it rip!


Fastest 300
Re: Cylinder ridge? [Re: Crizila] #715493
06/04/10 12:02 PM
06/04/10 12:02 PM
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USA
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360view Offline
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So,
if I pulled the heads
and found less than
0.004 inches of ridge (0.008 total wear)
it would be fairly safe to
run an experiment
where cylinders 1, 4, 6, 7
were re-ringed with the Total Seal Gapless
and cylinders 2, 3, 5, 8
were re-ringed with OEM factory Chrysler rings?

Then compare the four cylinders
for compression,
leakdown percent,
power balance on 4 cylinders on a rear wheel dyno?

Or
are there equivalent measurements to make
on the individual piston grooves
to see if they can safely take
new rings?

Re: Cylinder ridge? [Re: 360view] #715494
06/04/10 12:49 PM
06/04/10 12:49 PM
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Eugene, Oregon
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minivan Offline
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So lets say the taper is .004..

The controversy seems to be the ridge, so why not use a ridge reamer to remove the ridge and then hone???

Re: Cylinder ridge? [Re: minivan] #715495
06/04/10 01:49 PM
06/04/10 01:49 PM
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Posts: 1,456
oklahoma
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forphorty Offline
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I know i can't be trusted to not screw things up with a ridge reamer.

Re: Cylinder ridge? [Re: minivan] #715496
06/04/10 02:40 PM
06/04/10 02:40 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,200
Upper Midwest
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MoparforLife Offline
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Quote:

So lets say the taper is .004..

The controversy seems to be the ridge, so why not use a ridge reamer to remove the ridge and then hone???


BINGO
The reamer should be used BEFORE piston removal to avoid damage from rings catching on the ridge. If you can feel a ridge it can catch a ring and it don't take much to break a ring land. If you aren't reusing the pistons it isn't a big deal but still.


Clean it, if it's Dirty. Oil it, if it Squeaks. But: Don't fix it, if it Works!
Re: Cylinder ridge? [Re: MoparforLife] #715497
06/04/10 05:11 PM
06/04/10 05:11 PM
Joined: Nov 2003
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Lincoln Nebraska
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RapidRobert Offline
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You want to put the box end on the center nub and pull the cutter around toward you as opposed to pushing it into the wall and dont remove all the ridge as it always cuts unevenly and you dont want to go into the wall itself just get most of it (the ridge). Trick is patience and shifting positions freqently so you are always pulling the blade toward you and freqent checking (& a sharp blade)


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