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f/m/j sub frame #703203 05/20/10 12:40 PM 05/20/10 12:40 PM
Joined: May 2010 Posts: 8 shepherdsville, ky 40165 S stevieh OP member
stevieh OP member S Joined: May 2010 Posts: 8 shepherdsville, ky 40165	hello everyone, new to this, i have a 1948 dodge sedan and want to put a new sub frame under it, looking for complete unit for volare etc., 100 miles or so from louisville, ky. any advice would be appreciated, 1978 440 w/727 combo going in also,

Re: f/m/j sub frame [Re: stevieh] #703204 05/20/10 07:11 PM 05/20/10 07:11 PM
Joined: Sep 2005 Posts: 12,481 Chino Valley RodStRace I Live Here
RodStRace I Live Here Joined: Sep 2005 Posts: 12,481 Chino Valley	Check on parts availability! I have not done so, but I have heard here and on other boards that the parts are getting harder to find for the late 70s- early 80s stuff. Even if you can find them now, my is that a Dakota clip will have better parts availability in the next 10 years. It also is a newer design with more aftermarket (spindles, big brakes, etc.) support than the FMJ. http://louisville.craigslist.org/pts/1730036998.html http://louisville.craigslist.org/cto/1730686999.html

Re: f/m/j sub frame [Re: RodStRace] #703205 05/20/10 07:20 PM 05/20/10 07:20 PM
Joined: May 2010 Posts: 8 shepherdsville, ky 40165 S stevieh OP member
stevieh OP member S Joined: May 2010 Posts: 8 shepherdsville, ky 40165	hello, thanks for responding, does the sub unbolt like the other? i think it would be better if so, like you said for the availablity of parts alone, what would you want for the sub? again thanks for getting back, steve

Re: f/m/j sub frame [Re: stevieh] #703206 05/20/10 07:28 PM 05/20/10 07:28 PM
Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 14,889 up yours Supercuda About to go away
Supercuda About to go away Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 14,889 up yours	There is no problem with parts availability for the F/M/J suspension. They made it till 89 and to be honest I'd use as late a version as you can get. They were beefed up over the years and the last few years are the best. They say there are no such thing as a stupid question. They say there is always the exception that proves the rule. Don't be the exception.

Re: f/m/j sub frame [Re: Supercuda] #703207 05/20/10 07:52 PM 05/20/10 07:52 PM
Joined: Oct 2006 Posts: 4,765 Q quick77rt Parts Problem
quick77rt Parts Problem Q Joined: Oct 2006 Posts: 4,765	They now make every part needed to rebuild the F.M J front ends, now even the transverse tor. bars are being made but are costly.

Re: f/m/j sub frame [Re: quick77rt ] #703208 05/20/10 08:35 PM 05/20/10 08:35 PM
Joined: Sep 2005 Posts: 12,481 Chino Valley RodStRace I Live Here
RodStRace I Live Here Joined: Sep 2005 Posts: 12,481 Chino Valley	Thanks guys, sorry for the bad info. I sure hope the OP doesn't think the subframe will bolt in to the other frame....

Re: f/m/j sub frame [Re: RodStRace] #703209 05/20/10 09:00 PM 05/20/10 09:00 PM
Joined: Oct 2006 Posts: 4,765 Q quick77rt Parts Problem
quick77rt Parts Problem Q Joined: Oct 2006 Posts: 4,765	I didnt even read that part, but in the past couple years alot of companies have stepped up and made the parts, the most recent, the t-bars and cost the most $$$. Whats up with the crown vic front ends being swapped as well??? Quote: Thanks guys, sorry for the bad info. I sure hope the OP doesn't think the subframe will bolt in to the other frame....

Re: f/m/j sub frame [Re: stevieh] #703210 05/20/10 09:19 PM 05/20/10 09:19 PM
Joined: May 2010 Posts: 8 shepherdsville, ky 40165 S stevieh OP member
stevieh OP member S Joined: May 2010 Posts: 8 shepherdsville, ky 40165	hello, i know i will have to weld in and fit, i didn't want to destroy my frame, i thought about camaro but i would rather keep it mopar, i like the idea of dakota sub, i know i sound like a idiot, but will a 5 speed from a v6 bolt to a 440? and does anyone know the width of the sub and rear end? sorry i am new to this, my son is the welder and fabicator, thanks in advance, steve

Re: f/m/j sub frame [Re: stevieh] #703211 05/21/10 09:11 AM 05/21/10 09:11 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 3,920 n.e. pa. 6 65rbdodge master
65rbdodge master 6 Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 3,920 n.e. pa.	i have a 47 desoto and a 88 dakota frame that i`m grafting together. i remember measuring a few years ago and the dakota frame was 1" wider per side than the desoto frame. the v6 5speed will not bolt to the 440, it would bolt to a small block though. i THINK the 5 speeds were a one piece trans, as in the bell doesn`t seperate from the trans. like the 833`s.

Re: f/m/j sub frame [Re: 65rbdodge] #703212 05/21/10 10:19 AM 05/21/10 10:19 AM
Joined: Feb 2009 Posts: 773 Crofton, Ky. R rattler super stock
rattler super stock R Joined: Feb 2009 Posts: 773 Crofton, Ky.	I put an 88 dak frame under my 57 but, i remounted the 57 cab onto the 88 dak frame. I thought this would be easier and stonger than welding up the frame at such a high stress point as right behind the motor and i put in 440-727 combo as well. You may just decide to use all dak frame , depending on how you want the bed floor to look. 1957 Dodge truck, Snakeskin Green with a little stroker motor. 1964 Plymouth Savoy wagon ( my new project)

Re: f/m/j sub frame [Re: rattler] #703213 05/21/10 10:42 AM 05/21/10 10:42 AM
Joined: Sep 2005 Posts: 12,481 Chino Valley RodStRace I Live Here
RodStRace I Live Here Joined: Sep 2005 Posts: 12,481 Chino Valley	A while back I posted frame measurements for the 40s mopars and the dakota. It should still be in here. Lots of other threads on the dakota, both clip and full frame.

Re: f/m/j sub frame [Re: RodStRace] #703214 05/21/10 11:27 PM 05/21/10 11:27 PM
Joined: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,757 levittown pa fstfish66 top fuel
fstfish66 top fuel Joined: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,757 levittown pa	the dakota trannys bolt to the bell housing from inside the bell housing not from the out side like a 1950s 60s 70s trans we are all use to,,, some guys on other mopar boards are using toyota supra 5 speed boxes,,both made by new process and the toyota from what i have read bolts up to the dakota bell housing,, the supra tranny is stronger,, but if your not ram rodding it,,the dakota tranny may be ok,,,for a cruiser,, 1966 barracuda prostreeter super charged 340(SOLD) 1940 dodge coupe 241 hemi street rod 2014 ram express hemi 4x4 dailey driver 2015 cherokee 2013 R/T classic

Re: f/m/j sub frame [Re: fstfish66] #703215 05/23/10 09:27 AM 05/23/10 09:27 AM
Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 300 MA G Greg55_99 enthusiast
Greg55_99 enthusiast G Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 300 MA	Actually, the hot ticket these days is the 2004-2010 Ford Crown Victoria front suspension: Greg

Re: f/m/j sub frame [Re: Greg55_99] #703216 05/23/10 09:43 AM 05/23/10 09:43 AM
Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 14,889 up yours Supercuda About to go away
Supercuda About to go away Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 14,889 up yours	IIRC, it's a bit wide, someone posted the specs at one time, was thinking about a certain 65 Cuda I have. They say there are no such thing as a stupid question. They say there is always the exception that proves the rule. Don't be the exception.

Re: f/m/j sub frame [Re: Supercuda] #703217 05/23/10 09:59 AM 05/23/10 09:59 AM
Joined: May 2010 Posts: 8 shepherdsville, ky 40165 S stevieh OP member
stevieh OP member S Joined: May 2010 Posts: 8 shepherdsville, ky 40165	it looks great, and easy to find, but too wide for my 48 i think, i need to stay about 58",

Re: f/m/j sub frame [Re: Greg55_99] #703218 05/24/10 08:07 AM 05/24/10 08:07 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,597 A Happy Place, A Happy Place, ... 57Plymouth master
57Plymouth master Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,597 A Happy Place, A Happy Place, ...	Care to give any more reasons on the Crown Vic swap? Is the Crown Vic front end a drop out assembly like the F/M/J? Obviously from that photo you have the advantage of rack and pinion and coil springs, but what are the other benefits. Not trying to slam you, just looking for more information about the pros and cons of the Crown Vic front end. I drove a 2006 Crown Vic last week, and I thought it rode and handled very good, but the steering was VERY light. Virtus Junxit Mors Non Separabit

Re: f/m/j sub frame [Re: 57Plymouth] #703219 05/24/10 04:22 PM 05/24/10 04:22 PM
Joined: Dec 2006 Posts: 3,533 Indiana F Fury Fan master
Fury Fan master F Joined: Dec 2006 Posts: 3,533 Indiana	Advantages are that it's 1-piece, they are available in the JY, possibly from a lower-mileage vehicle and needing little repair. Another advantage is decent-sized disc brakes. If my research is correct (Rock Auto), the 2003-2010 Vic has 12.01" rotors, while the 1998-2002 has 12.42" discs. Brakes got smaller as the cars got newer. The 2003+ Vic copcars have the very flat-looking wheels, and possibly there was a wider track integrated into the design. There may be other changes in the overall brake system to compensate for the now-smaller rotors, or the vehicle may have gotten lighter and not needed as much braking. As always, don't just take my word for it. Take my word and then dig deeper to verify for yourself. Parts I seek: driver doorpanel, 65 Sport Fury, prefer black, needs to be 7-8 on 10 scale, might buy set 16" x 6" Dodge truck wheel(s), from early 70s?, takes 9" dogdish - need for a research job so cheaper is better. 69-73 C-body caliper brackets and/or splashields Send a PM.

Re: f/m/j sub frame [Re: Fury Fan] #703220 05/24/10 06:37 PM 05/24/10 06:37 PM
Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 1,444 NEW JERSEY D dynamite pro stock
dynamite pro stock D Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 1,444 NEW JERSEY	You may only want the K=frame..from the volere..I put it in my 1956 and it was the best think I did to the car..Four bolts and a few hoses and its out ..ALL THE PARTS ARE AVALIBLE..It gives you the disc brakes and p/s,and torsion bars...If you can ,get the whole car..I bought a 1986 Chrysler 5th ave for $ 250.00 with a blown motor and got the steering colume and master cylinder and anything else I could use..Simple install,and drives straight and smooth.. 6000820-larry556burnoutsmall.jpg (531 downloads)

Re: f/m/j sub frame [Re: 57Plymouth] #703221 05/24/10 10:19 PM 05/24/10 10:19 PM
Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 300 MA G Greg55_99 enthusiast
Greg55_99 enthusiast G Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 300 MA	Quote: Care to give any more reasons on the Crown Vic swap? Is the Crown Vic front end a drop out assembly like the F/M/J? Obviously from that photo you have the advantage of rack and pinion and coil springs, but what are the other benefits. Not trying to slam you, just looking for more information about the pros and cons of the Crown Vic front end. I drove a 2006 Crown Vic last week, and I thought it rode and handled very good, but the steering was VERY light. As has been stated, the Crown Vic front end is a complete drop out piece. The most critical width is the outside tire to outside tire distance which is 72" with the stock steel Vic Cop car wheels. If you can get that under your fenders, it can be made to work. Lots of theads on the Ford truck board on how it's done: http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/934493-rusty-63s-f100-2004-cv-pi.html http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/756556-2007-mercury-grand-marquis-suspension-into-a-72-f100.html http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/716058-buildup-06-crown-vic-front-suspension-into-67-f100.html It's a real neat piece... Greg

Re: f/m/j sub frame [Re: 65rbdodge] #703222 05/25/10 07:52 AM 05/25/10 07:52 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 16,123 Grand Haven, MI patrick I Live Here
patrick I Live Here Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 16,123 Grand Haven, MI	Quote: i have a 47 desoto and a 88 dakota frame that i`m grafting together. i remember measuring a few years ago and the dakota frame was 1" wider per side than the desoto frame. the v6 5speed will not bolt to the 440, it would bolt to a small block though. i THINK the 5 speeds were a one piece trans, as in the bell doesn`t seperate from the trans. like the 833`s. only the NVG3500's are...the smaller NVG 1500 (can't remember if those were used in 4cyl daks) and the Aisin AX15 have a separate bell 1976 Spinnaker White Plymouth Duster, /6 A833OD 1986 Silver/Twilight Blue Chrysler 5th Ave HotRod SOLD!* 2011 Toxic Orange Dodge Charger R/T 2017 Grand Cherokee Overland 2014 Jeep Cherokee Latitude (holy crap, my daughter is driving)

Re: f/m/j sub frame [Re: Greg55_99] #703223 05/25/10 07:56 AM 05/25/10 07:56 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 16,123 Grand Haven, MI patrick I Live Here
patrick I Live Here Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 16,123 Grand Haven, MI	Quote: Quote: Care to give any more reasons on the Crown Vic swap? Is the Crown Vic front end a drop out assembly like the F/M/J? Obviously from that photo you have the advantage of rack and pinion and coil springs, but what are the other benefits. Not trying to slam you, just looking for more information about the pros and cons of the Crown Vic front end. I drove a 2006 Crown Vic last week, and I thought it rode and handled very good, but the steering was VERY light. As has been stated, the Crown Vic front end is a complete drop out piece. The most critical width is the outside tire to outside tire distance which is 72" with the stock steel Vic Cop car wheels. If you can get that under your fenders, it can be made to work. Lots of theads on the Ford truck board on how it's done: http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/934493-rusty-63s-f100-2004-cv-pi.html http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/756556-2007-mercury-grand-marquis-suspension-into-a-72-f100.html http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/716058-buildup-06-crown-vic-front-suspension-into-67-f100.html It's a real neat piece... Greg IMHO most critical dimension is the wheel mount face to wheel mount face, as a lot of rodder guys don't like the super high offset wheels you need with the crown vic front to keep the OT-OT width to 72"...IIRC the wheel mount to wheel mount is ~67", which is 6-7" wider than an F/M/J 1976 Spinnaker White Plymouth Duster, /6 A833OD 1986 Silver/Twilight Blue Chrysler 5th Ave HotRod SOLD!* 2011 Toxic Orange Dodge Charger R/T 2017 Grand Cherokee Overland 2014 Jeep Cherokee Latitude (holy crap, my daughter is driving)

Re: f/m/j sub frame [Re: patrick] #703224 05/25/10 11:37 AM 05/25/10 11:37 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,597 A Happy Place, A Happy Place, ... 57Plymouth master
57Plymouth master Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,597 A Happy Place, A Happy Place, ...	Sounds like I need to take some good measurements of the 57 and 59 Plymouths in my shop right now. The 59 especially, since it's motor is out and it's already on jackstands with the wheels off. That could be an interesting swap into a Forward Look car. Virtus Junxit Mors Non Separabit

Re: f/m/j sub frame [Re: Greg55_99] #703225 05/26/10 08:23 AM 05/26/10 08:23 AM
Joined: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,757 levittown pa fstfish66 top fuel
fstfish66 top fuel Joined: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,757 levittown pa	Quote: Actually, the hot ticket these days is the 2004-2010 Ford Crown Victoria front suspension: Greg looks intresting, ddint know ford was still building the crown vic 1966 barracuda prostreeter super charged 340(SOLD) 1940 dodge coupe 241 hemi street rod 2014 ram express hemi 4x4 dailey driver 2015 cherokee 2013 R/T classic

Re: f/m/j sub frame [Re: 57Plymouth] #703226 05/26/10 08:31 AM 05/26/10 08:31 AM
Joined: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,757 levittown pa fstfish66 top fuel
fstfish66 top fuel Joined: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,757 levittown pa	Quote: Care to give any more reasons on the Crown Vic swap? Is the Crown Vic front end a drop out assembly like the F/M/J? Obviously from that photo you have the advantage of rack and pinion and coil springs, but what are the other benefits. Not trying to slam you, just looking for more information about the pros and cons of the Crown Vic front end. I drove a 2006 Crown Vic last week, and I thought it rode and handled very good, but the steering was VERY light. ide like to hear about it also,looks like a drop out and not a true sub frame from the pics,but still intresting, tracking width? 1966 barracuda prostreeter super charged 340(SOLD) 1940 dodge coupe 241 hemi street rod 2014 ram express hemi 4x4 dailey driver 2015 cherokee 2013 R/T classic

Re: f/m/j sub frame [Re: dynamite] #703227 05/26/10 08:40 AM 05/26/10 08:40 AM
Joined: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,757 levittown pa fstfish66 top fuel
fstfish66 top fuel Joined: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,757 levittown pa	Quote: You may only want the K=frame..from the volere..I put it in my 1956 and it was the best think I did to the car..Four bolts and a few hoses and its out ..ALL THE PARTS ARE AVALIBLE..It gives you the disc brakes and p/s,and torsion bars...If you can ,get the whole car..I bought a 1986 Chrysler 5th ave for $ 250.00 with a blown motor and got the steering colume and master cylinder and anything else I could use..Simple install,and drives straight and smooth.. you had to make some sort of sub frame to connect that 5th ave stub too,, 1966 barracuda prostreeter super charged 340(SOLD) 1940 dodge coupe 241 hemi street rod 2014 ram express hemi 4x4 dailey driver 2015 cherokee 2013 R/T classic

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