very low oil pressure on 511(update, fixed)
#685662
05/01/10 06:09 PM
05/01/10 06:09 PM
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,397 Toronto Ontario, Can
Glen440
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OP
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I just finished putting my 511 B1 engine back together and fired it up today. Something was weird when I primed it, only got around 35psi and it never stalled the drill which has always happened. I fired it up and it only has 10 psi at 1200 rpm and gets very little more if you bring the revs up a bit.
I just pulled the front cover to make sure the plugs are in it. They are. I did that because it looked like one side rockers got alot more oil than the other.
I'm gonna check the relief valve in the oil pump but I had it apart before it went on and it was free.
This is a stock block 511, it has a solid roller cam with .760, .716 lift with 1.7 T&D shaft rockers. Maybe the lifters are uncovering the oil feed? These were supposed to be good.
Maybe I'll drop some solid lifters in it and see if it will prime with pressure.
Any other ideas?
Last edited by Glen440; 05/09/10 11:40 AM.
87 dakota 6.1 hemi
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Re: very low oil pressure on 511
[Re: Glen440]
#685663
05/01/10 06:12 PM
05/01/10 06:12 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 344 Burlington, Ontario Canada
Dave_S
enthusiast
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enthusiast
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Burlington, Ontario Canada
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Sorry Glen cant offer any advice, but you better huury up! May 22 is coming up fast.
Dave
Dave Stillie '73 Swinger 5.7 Hemi, 88mm turbo, powerglide, cal-tracs & 8 3/4 Mega-Squirt EFI [email]8.93@149 [/email]
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Re: very low oil pressure on 511
[Re: Glen440]
#685669
05/01/10 08:52 PM
05/01/10 08:52 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,118 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
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Bend,OR USA
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Pull all the spark plugs and prime the motor again, rotate it slowly, if the oil pressure comes up and drops off again it is the roller lifters Been there done that.The last motor we had that on we where able to block the oil off to the drivers isde and that cured it I use to small welsh plugs(look like small freeze plugs ) that I inserted into the drivers side oil galley behind the oil galley plug at the rear of the block It is a lot of work to either remove the motor and do it on a engine stand or remove the trans and do it in the car Try rotating the motor while priming it first before deciding what the problem is and the causes
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: very low oil pressure on 511
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#685670
05/01/10 09:03 PM
05/01/10 09:03 PM
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,175 Duloc
The Shadow
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Posts: 2,175
Duloc
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Geeze Glen My luck must be rubbing off on you. It wasn't looking good for you being ready when I was at Frank's shop last week but you have kicked it in high gear. Hopefully it's just something simple.
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Re: very low oil pressure on 511
[Re: Glen440]
#685671
05/02/10 08:04 AM
05/02/10 08:04 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,923 NC
440Jim
I Live Here
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Quote:
I just finished putting my 511 B1 engine back together and fired it up today. ... with 1.7 T&D shaft rockers.
B1 heads and T&D rockers. I think that uses pushrod oiling? Did you block the oiling through the block? I have never used B1 heads, just thinking out loud. You also could need pushrod oil restrictors.
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Re: very low oil pressure on 511
[Re: 440Jim]
#685673
05/02/10 09:23 AM
05/02/10 09:23 AM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
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Master
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Romeo MI
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Quote:
Quote:
I just finished putting my 511 B1 engine back together and fired it up today. ... with 1.7 T&D shaft rockers.
B1 heads and T&D rockers. I think that uses pushrod oiling? Did you block the oiling through the block? I have never used B1 heads, just thinking out loud. You also could need pushrod oil restrictors.
Those should be PR oiling... I believe the mounting base on the heads for the rockers should block the oil port in the head but I would check it... with that much lift the lifter could be the issue.... those are individual shafts so no oil in the shafts if they are like mine
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Re: very low oil pressure on 511
[Re: supercomp]
#685675
05/02/10 12:40 PM
05/02/10 12:40 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,286 Hamilton,Ont
72chrgrally
top fuel
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Posts: 2,286
Hamilton,Ont
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Glen didn't you heve this engine together and running before? If so, and you changed the cam and lifters and nothing else, then that has to be your problem. I hope you get it figured out before the first race! Steve
Photobucket sucks
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Re: very low oil pressure on 511
[Re: 72chrgrally]
#685676
05/02/10 08:52 PM
05/02/10 08:52 PM
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,397 Toronto Ontario, Can
Glen440
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These are single shaft T&D rockers. I switched the position of the rocker stands to stop the oil from the block. I have pushrod oiling with lifters from Emm engines from this board. After I took the front of the engine apart to check the plugs were definatley in there I have not got it back together yet so I won't be able to try anything else for a bit.
The engine made alot of noises when priming which I had not heard before.
The engine is pretty tight in the Duster so I may end up taking it out to play with. I will have to take the valley cover off and watch what happens when I prime it. I was close to doing that yesterday but burned out, could not work on it today so maybe during the week.
The bronze gear is stuck in the engine so hopefully I can get that out with the valley cover off.
With TMP going to AHRA I was not sure what to do about the first race anyway, I need my license but if I didn't finish it, its far away to do that another day. Also would need to renew my IHRA membership.
87 dakota 6.1 hemi
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Re: very low oil pressure on 511
[Re: Glen440]
#685678
05/03/10 11:29 AM
05/03/10 11:29 AM
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 6,295 U.S.
moparniac
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With the dizzy out rotate the engine counter clockwise and it will lift the intermediate shaft out!
Mopar Performance
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Re: very low oil pressure on 511
[Re: moparmanjames]
#685680
05/03/10 08:23 PM
05/03/10 08:23 PM
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,397 Toronto Ontario, Can
Glen440
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I played with the engine tonight. Priming it it seems like there just is not enough oil from the pump. I first noticed the pushrods are not oiling. The roller on the lifter gets some oil run off it and you lift them up and uncover the galley and there is not much oil there. I took the adjustable relief spring retainer off and adjusted it all the way in and had the relief valve and spring out to look at and looks fine. I guess I need to take the oil pump off and maybe the pan. The K member may have to be lowered to do that.
I have a stock pump with a different cover that has external feed. I have a static pickup in the pan with #12 line feeding the pump. This pump and pan setup worked when last ran. I tried a different oil filter incase that was the problem.
Should I use a high volume pump this time around?
87 dakota 6.1 hemi
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Re: very low oil pressure on 511
[Re: Glen440]
#685682
05/03/10 08:27 PM
05/03/10 08:27 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,923 NC
440Jim
I Live Here
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I Live Here
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Quote:
it has a solid roller cam with .760, .716 lift with 1.7 T&D shaft rockers. Maybe the lifters are uncovering the oil feed?
It could be the lifters/bore, but I don't think so. That is not a lot of lobe lift:
.760"/1.7 = 0.447"
So a normal 1.5 rocker arm (stock head) would only be 0.670" valve lift with that cam. And tons of guys have run that in stock blocks, rocker ratio, etc. And on top of that, the roller lifters from IMM should not be a problem at that lobe lift either.
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Re: very low oil pressure on 511
[Re: moparniac]
#685684
05/03/10 08:36 PM
05/03/10 08:36 PM
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,397 Toronto Ontario, Can
Glen440
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I went by their instructions, took 2 tries to get the right pushrods as measuring my checking pushrod and what showed up were .050 different which is around a full turn and were too long. I have 8.950 in the intakes and 8.900 in the exhaust. Only had to send 8 back, plus took 3 tries to get 8.950's as they kept sending some 8.050 in the 8.950 package. offset rollers in the intakes as well.
87 dakota 6.1 hemi
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Re: very low oil pressure on 511
[Re: Glen440]
#685685
05/03/10 08:38 PM
05/03/10 08:38 PM
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 6,295 U.S.
moparniac
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With the offset lifters mine were 2 different lengths also...
Mopar Performance
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Re: very low oil pressure on 511
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#685687
05/03/10 09:00 PM
05/03/10 09:00 PM
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,397 Toronto Ontario, Can
Glen440
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The bearing clearances are good. I had the machine shop that did the bore and hone measure everything.
It looks like there is not much flow. I have the valvetrain out so I was pulling lifters up while priming to see what was going on. It does not make enough pressure to get any oil out the top of the lifter. You pull a lifter right out and its not a constant flow of oil out the big hole.
87 dakota 6.1 hemi
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Re: very low oil pressure on 511
[Re: Glen440]
#685688
05/03/10 09:06 PM
05/03/10 09:06 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
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Are you SURE all the plugs are in the oil galleys, a stock pump should flow enough to give you decent pressure.... I'm just asking
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Re: very low oil pressure on 511
[Re: Glen440]
#685689
05/03/10 09:08 PM
05/03/10 09:08 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 3,544 Syracuse,NY
CompWedgeEngines
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Syracuse,NY
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Glen,
Is there any chance you are sucking the inside wall ( rubber) of the braided suction line in? IE: A collapsed oil line? Check that suction line. No way something got into the pick up ? IE rag, towel etc? Just thinking out loud. Seems like a suction side problem.
RIP Monte Smith
Your work is a reflection of yourself, autograph it with quality.
WD for Diamond Pistons,Sidewinder cylinder heads, Wiseco, K1 rods and cranks,BAM lifters, Morel lifters, Molnar Technologies, Harland Sharp, Pro Gear, Cometic, King Engine Bearings and many others.
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Re: very low oil pressure on 511
[Re: CompWedgeEngines]
#685690
05/03/10 09:17 PM
05/03/10 09:17 PM
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,397 Toronto Ontario, Can
Glen440
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Anything is possible, I put the pan on last wed and left the engine upside down so a rag is unlikely. I had it in the parts washer and cleaned the pickup and blew it out with air. I can make a new suction line, maybe it got hurt putting it in the car.
Pbody, my very first thought was the 2 plugs in the front so I pulled the front apart and looked and they are in there, the back ones must be or I would have oil everywhere. I plugged the internal pickup at the pump and inside by the crank. Is there anymore?
Maybe the pump cover has something wrong with it?
87 dakota 6.1 hemi
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Re: very low oil pressure on 511
[Re: Glen440]
#685691
05/09/10 11:39 AM
05/09/10 11:39 AM
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,397 Toronto Ontario, Can
Glen440
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I don't exactly know what was wrong with the oiling system. I put a different relief valve in and it got more oil pressure. I put a new high volume pump on it because I was gonna take the pump off anyway. I decided to run the suction line differently to elimate one 90 fitting and the line is almost completely straight now. Maybe the bend in the line was an issue? I did not take the pan off. I can get 60 psi priming it now and cold it has 75 at idle. I had it running for about 10 min yesterday and forgot what it had hot, maybe 25 at idle. I also had the oil heater on for a couple hours so the oil was warm before it started. Its real cold here right now, weather is strange. Some snow. I'm just about to put the K frame back in, had to do some hacking on it to fit the oil line. At least its fixed.
87 dakota 6.1 hemi
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Re: very low oil pressure on 511
[Re: Glen440]
#685692
05/09/10 11:46 AM
05/09/10 11:46 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,923 NC
440Jim
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I Live Here
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Quote:
At least its fixed
I agree with that. Sounds like the pump and relief may have both been an issue. I don't know about the lines. Quote:
I have a static pickup in the pan with #12 line feeding the pump. This pump and pan setup worked when last ran.
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