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cummins swap into a body #630703
03/04/10 09:48 PM
03/04/10 09:48 PM
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Avon, Indiana
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73dart Offline OP
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just getting some thoughts on the idea of swaping a 1st gen cummins 6bt into my dodge demon....

would the .920 solo torsion bars be enought to support a 1000 pound motor ?

or should i go with a coil over set up or maybe even air ride...

other thoughts and ideas ?


"Chrysler motors didn't blow up, the rearview mirror fell off"-Swede Savage 74 Triple Black Challenger440IndyHeads Spray 776hp 01 Dakota R/T, 14.00s All day long 98 Neon ACR DAILY
Re: cummins swap into a body [Re: 73dart] #630704
03/04/10 09:51 PM
03/04/10 09:51 PM
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Kissimmee Fl.
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dusturbd340W5 Offline
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I have heard of people doing it with the 4 cyl cummins but never the 6 its pretty long I am sure you would have to move the fire wall way back and to answer your ? I dont think those bars are going to hold up


70 duster full chassis super pro 416 CNC Indybrock heads 727 w/brake

best so far 1.212 60 6.219 in 1/8 at 110.88 9.768 at 137.81 1/4
Re: cummins swap into a body [Re: dusturbd340W5] #630705
03/04/10 10:03 PM
03/04/10 10:03 PM
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St. John's Newfoundland
440newport Offline
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I think the biggest problem is the height, a 6bt is a pretty tall motor. It COULD be done though I suppose.
Personally I think a diesel in a muscle car just seems wrong but it's your car.

Here's one in a Monte Carlo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RO_kjaxIDzc

Re: cummins swap into a body [Re: 440newport] #630706
03/04/10 10:08 PM
03/04/10 10:08 PM
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Posts: 202
Avon, Indiana
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73dart Offline OP
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i can deal with the height of the motor... i am worried about the weight... around 1150 with oil and acc... and the length of the engine...


i do like the thought of 30mpg


"Chrysler motors didn't blow up, the rearview mirror fell off"-Swede Savage 74 Triple Black Challenger440IndyHeads Spray 776hp 01 Dakota R/T, 14.00s All day long 98 Neon ACR DAILY
Re: cummins swap into a body [Re: 73dart] #630707
03/04/10 10:17 PM
03/04/10 10:17 PM
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chicagoland,usa
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buildanother Offline
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For the mpg, why not the 4bt? You'll just need about 150 lb flywheel to keep your teeth from rattling out.

Re: cummins swap into a body [Re: 440newport] #630708
03/04/10 10:20 PM
03/04/10 10:20 PM
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Canton, Ohio
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Sport440 Offline
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Quote:

I think the biggest problem is the height, a 6bt is a pretty tall motor. It COULD be done though I suppose.
Personally I think a diesel in a muscle car just seems wrong but it's your car.

Here's one in a Chevelle
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RO_kjaxIDzc






OMG, That car has no radio.

Re: cummins swap into a body [Re: 73dart] #630709
03/04/10 10:24 PM
03/04/10 10:24 PM
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Lake View, IA
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Deans68plym Offline
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If you want 30 mpg and don't want to destroy what little frame your car has, use a 3.9 Cummins instead of the 5.9. It will be a lot friendlier fit and have enough power and will give you the 30mpg you want.
I have a 4BT/727 in my '68 Satellite wagon, and even in cold weather and a blend fuel I can easily get 26.
The 4BT dressed out weighs about 30lbs more than a RB eng.

Re: cummins swap into a body [Re: buildanother] #630710
03/04/10 10:31 PM
03/04/10 10:31 PM
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Lake View, IA
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Deans68plym Offline
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Quote:

For the mpg, why not the 4bt? You'll just need about 150 lb flywheel to keep your teeth from rattling out.




I still have all my teeth!
Someone didn't do their homework before building their engine mounts!!
But really, the 4BT vibration mostly goes away after 800 rpm. I run mine at 60 at around 1750, and it's smooth.

Re: cummins swap into a body [Re: Deans68plym] #630711
03/04/10 10:40 PM
03/04/10 10:40 PM
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Avon, Indiana
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73dart Offline OP
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i havent found any great deals on the smaller diesels... and it seams easier to make more reliable power with the 5.9... maybe i am wrong...


"Chrysler motors didn't blow up, the rearview mirror fell off"-Swede Savage 74 Triple Black Challenger440IndyHeads Spray 776hp 01 Dakota R/T, 14.00s All day long 98 Neon ACR DAILY
Re: cummins swap into a body [Re: 73dart] #630712
03/04/10 10:49 PM
03/04/10 10:49 PM
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Lake View, IA
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Deans68plym Offline
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Quote:

i havent found any great deals on the smaller diesels... and it seams easier to make more reliable power with the 5.9... maybe i am wrong...



You won't find a more reliable engine than the 5.9 or the "little brother" 3.9 Cummins. The 3.9 can give you over 200 hp and more than 400 ft/lb., and still run a long time. I have heard of the 3.9 running 8000 hrs. untouched.
You can find 3.9 core engines for under $1000, and a nice low mile one for less than $3000.
How much is a good rebuild on a 440? And how many miles will that last??

Re: cummins swap into a body [Re: 73dart] #630713
03/04/10 10:51 PM
03/04/10 10:51 PM
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UPPER MICHIGAN, MARQUETTE COUN...
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NITROUSN Offline
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You are going to be in for a lot more than you bargained for on that swap. You had better measure one from the front of the intercooler to the back of the bell. Plan on no center in the core support, fire wall and tunnel cut out.

Re: cummins swap into a body [Re: NITROUSN] #630714
03/04/10 11:05 PM
03/04/10 11:05 PM
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Lake View, IA
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Deans68plym Offline
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Quote:

You are going to be in for a lot more than you bargained for on that swap. You had better measure one from the front of the intercooler to the back of the bell. Plan on no center in the core support, fire wall and tunnel cut out.




With a 5.9, I agree. Go seek counselling first.

Re: cummins swap into a body [Re: 73dart] #630715
03/04/10 11:47 PM
03/04/10 11:47 PM
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Central Pa.
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1967 V100 Offline
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6BT length of block is 29.45", RFOB to FFOB, gear housing and damper adds 4.0" plus your flywheel housing or trans adapter. Estimated overall length is 40.00" with SAE#3 housing. 4B is 9.45" shorter (block is 20")

Re: cummins swap into a body [Re: 73dart] #630716
03/04/10 11:49 PM
03/04/10 11:49 PM
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Central Pa.
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1967 V100 Offline
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Crankshaft centerline to top of valve cover is 19.88", crank centerline to bottom of standard rear sump oil pan is 12.21". Turbo and intake will add height depending on options.

Re: cummins swap into a body [Re: 440newport] #630717
03/05/10 12:19 AM
03/05/10 12:19 AM
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Posts: 10,115
A Red State
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Quote:

I think the biggest problem is the height, a 6bt is a pretty tall motor. It COULD be done though I suppose.
Personally I think a diesel in a muscle car just seems wrong but it's your car.

Here's one in a Monte Carlo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RO_kjaxIDzc




That Monte Carlo is a local car (MO).

It was at the Easter show last year sitting next to a same body style big block Monte Carlo.

The funny thing was it actually sat higher than the stock height big block car.


Kayse can't keep up at all now. lol
Re: cummins swap into a body [Re: 73dart] #630718
03/05/10 01:17 AM
03/05/10 01:17 AM
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Posts: 9,312
SoCal
68HemiB Offline
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Dimensions notwithstanding, that is too much weight IMO.

Regardless of the T-bat diameter, one [of many] weak points in such a plan is the rear anchor point for the T-Bar.

Hypermiling a /6 can get you close to your mpg goal, and not upset the apple cart to the degree you are contemplating.


Down to just a blue car now.
Re: cummins swap into a body [Re: 68HemiB] #630719
03/05/10 01:27 AM
03/05/10 01:27 AM
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Manitoba, Canada
DaytonaTurbo Offline
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Quote:

Dimensions notwithstanding, that is too much weight IMO.

Regardless of the T-bat diameter, one [of many] weak points in such a plan is the rear anchor point for the T-Bar.





That is my concern as well. The torsion bar sockets are welded into the frame, which is not the strongest thing to begin with, but does the job just fine in the weight zone for which these cars were designed. If mpg was the ultimate goal, I would be looking more at mating a 90's mopar 2.4L 4cyl to a rwd overdrive manual trans. I know it's been done, mopar 4cyl mated to a toyota rwd trans. A bit more complicated swap but the weight savings alone would be worth it!

Re: cummins swap into a body [Re: DaytonaTurbo] #630720
03/05/10 01:37 AM
03/05/10 01:37 AM
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Posts: 202
Avon, Indiana
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73dart Offline OP
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mpg isnt the main concern... but its a positive... i guess go with a coil over and tie the frame together and shoe horn it in there... lol


"Chrysler motors didn't blow up, the rearview mirror fell off"-Swede Savage 74 Triple Black Challenger440IndyHeads Spray 776hp 01 Dakota R/T, 14.00s All day long 98 Neon ACR DAILY
Re: cummins swap into a body [Re: Deans68plym] #630721
03/05/10 01:42 AM
03/05/10 01:42 AM
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Canada
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demon Offline
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Quote:

If you want 30 mpg and don't want to destroy what little frame your car has, use a 3.9 Cummins instead of the 5.9. It will be a lot friendlier fit and have enough power and will give you the 30mpg you want.
I have a 4BT/727 in my '68 Satellite wagon, and even in cold weather and a blend fuel I can easily get 26.
The 4BT dressed out weighs about 30lbs more than a RB eng.



that sounds neat. How about some pictures and info about thrc
swap?

Re: cummins swap into a body [Re: demon] #630722
03/05/10 08:19 AM
03/05/10 08:19 AM
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Indiana
MonGoo$e Offline
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who is it on here that has the 408 stroker, OD, and sorta high gearing and getting 24 mpg? that makes more sense than any diesel


My YouTube Channel, "Hoosier Garage"
https://www.youtube.com/HoosierGarage
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